Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[thebus88]

Laine was the only CBJ player not to give any answers on Babcock topic when asked.

Laine will have played under more coaches than he will have 30 goal seasons with the team, when his CBJ career ends.

True Superstar numbers.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Laine will have played under more coaches than he will have 30 goal seasons with the team, when his CBJ career ends.

True Superstar numbers.

here we go again. but sure, i'll take the bait.

the only reason why he's not a '30 goal scorer' here is because he's missed time, but the whole team has been full of guys missing time. either the jackets target guys who get injured a lot (unlikely) or there's a commonality there (training/conditioning staff) that caused it.

last year, he scored at a 0.4 goals per game and 0.54 assists per game clip. over 82 that's a 33-45–78 clip. the year before those numbers were 0.47 gpg and 0.54 apg, which over 82 is 39-44–83. he's put up 32-45–77 over his last 82 games, and 83 games ago he scored a hat trick.

looking at wingers over the last two year with similar statlines:

comparables:

• 2023 kyle connor (31-49–80)
• 2023 brady tkachuk (35-48–83)
• 2023 william nylander (40-47–87)
• 2022 william nylander (34-46–82)
• 2022 pavel buchnevich (30-46–76)
• 2023 brad marchand (21-46-67 in 73 GP, extrapolates to 24-52–76 over 82)
• 2022 clayton keller (28-35-63 in 67gp, extrapolates to 34-43-77)

better than:

• 2023 johnny gaudreau (21-53–74)
• 2023 jesper bratt (32-41–73)
• 2023 jake guentzel (36-37–73)
• 2023 jordan kyrou (37-36–73)
• 2023 carter verhaeghe (42-31–73)
• 2023 martin necas (28-43–71)
• 2023 alex debrincat (27-39–66)
• 2023 timo meier (40-26–66)
• 2022 andrei svechnikov (30-39–69)
• 2022 brady tkachuk (30-37-67)

when he's been in the lineup over the last two years, his production has been almost identical to william nylander, who has the benefit of playing on a much better team and on a power play with marner + matthews.

 

[Murky]

The Athletic has Laine tied with Jenner as the best defensive forward for the Jackets. Who would have thunk.

Then again, Laine had his best defensive season ever within a similar context. If there’s one reason to be extra excited about Columbus’ future core it’s that Laine took a very real step toward becoming an actual franchise building block. Not just a player who scores like one.

Laine made his debut on our annual Player Tiers list for that reason, somehow earning 52 percent of the goals at five-on-five last year. The 47 percent expected goals rate wasn’t as great, but it was a massive step up from the rest of the team at both ends of the ice. It’s not just his play without the puck, Laine has also become much more than just a shooter with the puck. He passes better, he creates chances off the forecheck, he carries the puck up ice — he’s getting there. More care while exiting the zone would help, but Laine’s progress is real.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The Athletic has Laine tied with Jenner as the best defensive forward for the Jackets. Who would have thunk.

speaking of, here's an excerpt from the tiers list (not sure if it's been posted here before):

There was a time where you could count on Laine to do one thing only. Now, he’s become much more multi-faceted, growing into a player who can maybe actually be The Guy.

He does more with the puck besides shoot, he’s improved his play-making, he’s become better in transition, and he finally looks dependable without the puck. His five-on-five impacts were positive for the first time in his career (even defensively!), completely flipping the script from his first year with Columbus and his career in Winnipeg.

they project him for a 35-44–79 season. he's in tier 4c as a "top line" player along with, among others, jonathan huberdeau, martin necas, jared mccann and travis konecny. that's a tier above a few other interesting names: cole caufield, adrian kempe, jt miller, troy terry and others.

 

[Marioesque]

speaking of, here's an excerpt from the tiers list (not sure if it's been posted here before):

they project him for a 35-44–79 season. he's in tier 4c as a "top line" player along with, among others, jonathan huberdeau, martin necas, jared mccann and travis konecny. that's a tier above a few other interesting names: cole caufield, adrian kempe, jt miller, troy terry and others.

The only thing I'd fix in the article is that his time in Winnipeg was mostly him being the best 5 on 5 +/- or one of the top 2 usually so it wasn't like he wasn't already playing defensively too.

And of course the projection. If he plays a full healthy season with this supporting cast, he should reach a 100 pts.

 

[niflheim]

The Athletic has Laine tied with Jenner as the best defensive forward for the Jackets. Who would have thunk.

best defensive forward? ok. I remember when Ovechkin said about young Laine that “he can score 50 or 60 goals in a season if he’s going to continue to play like that”

 

[traffic cone]

The Athletic has Laine tied with Jenner as the best defensive forward for the Jackets. Who would have thunk.

It’s sad that even many non-casuals still run with the ”a cocky one trick pony who can’t defend and only plays fortnite” -narrative.

A healthy season would probably open many eyes.

 

[CBJx614]

best defensive forward? ok. I remember when Ovechkin said about young Laine that “he can score 50 or 60 goals in a season if he’s going to continue to play like that”

There's no reason he can't be both. I don't think 50/60 is reasonable, but a consistent 40G two way player is very reasonable.

If a Gaudreau - Fantilli - Laine line ever clicks and works out...

 

[VT]

There's no reason he can't be both. I don't think 50/60 is reasonable, but a consistent 40G two way player is very reasonable.

If a Gaudreau - Fantilli - Laine line ever clicks and works out...

I'd rather have Laine play with Malatesta and Voronkov than Gaudreau.

 

[Marioesque]

There's no reason he can't be both. I don't think 50/60 is reasonable, but a consistent 40G two way player is very reasonable.

If a Gaudreau - Fantilli - Laine line ever clicks and works out...

He can get 20+ on PP alone in a well working PP. That's what's been consistently missing in the last few years, until it started to come back last season when Boqvist and Laine were both available at the same time. It was actually clicking at top 3 in NHL pace at some point.

I can see him getting that 40 on just even strength, how well the PP works will determine how far over he can go. There's now so much talent in the roster that the opponents can't afford to cheat towards covering Laine as they have previously been able to. I think he'll click well with Fantilli who likes to drive to the middle and draw defenses with him. That will force them to choose and Laine will get more chances without being blocked or limited in shooting. Either one can run through a defence if they get the puck in stride in neutral zone.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

There's no reason he can't be both. I don't think 50/60 is reasonable, but a consistent 40G two way player is very reasonable.

If a Gaudreau - Fantilli - Laine line ever clicks and works out...

his playmaking has also turned into a legit differentiator for him as a player – if he ends up as a defensively responsible play driver/transition wing who can create goals with his playmaking in the offensive zone AND be a scoring threat from distance and on PP1, that's an extremely valuable player.

 

[stevo61]

I'd rather have Laine play with Malatesta and Voronkov than Gaudreau.

I bet you would...

 

[BB88]

I'd rather have Laine play with Malatesta and Voronkov than Gaudreau.

Don’t want to see him score more than 10 goals?

I agree I’d have Laine and Gaudreau on separate lines but with that I’d heavily disagree

Gaudreau- Jenner- Marchenko
Johnson- Fantilli- Laine
Should be a pretty legit top6 by the end of the year and potentially great to elite the next season

 

[VT]

Don’t want to see him score more than 10 goals?

I agree I’d have Laine and Gaudreau on separate lines but with that I’d heavily disagree

Gaudreau- Jenner- Marchenko
Johnson- Fantilli- Laine
Should be a pretty legit top6 by the end of the year and potentially great to elite the next season

I meant it figuratively. Because the mantra of Laine and Gaudreau in the same line... . Kind of like Jenner - first line center.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Don’t want to see him score more than 10 goals?

I agree I’d have Laine and Gaudreau on separate lines but with that I’d heavily disagree

Gaudreau- Jenner- Marchenko
Johnson- Fantilli- Laine
Should be a pretty legit top6 by the end of the year and potentially great to elite the next season

We are absolutely wasting the gift that is Johnny Hockey.

There is nothing great to elite about a top six that has Boone Jenner playing C. We've gone through this whole off season with the glaring weakness of a legit Center to go with Fantilli. Now somehow we are trying to convince ourselves that because we have a lot of Centers that two of them must be good enough to be a great to elite top 6. They are not. The org is still lacking a top 6 C.

 

[BB88]

We are absolutely wasting the gift that is Johnny Hockey.

There is nothing great to elite about a top six that has Boone Jenner playing C. We've gone through this whole off season with the glaring weakness of a legit Center to go with Fantilli. Now somehow we are trying to convince ourselves that because we have a lot of Centers that two of them must be good enough to be a great to elite top 6. They are not. The org is still lacking a top 6 C.

Why would you ignore the part where I said next season& not this?

If Fantilli is as good as hoped he should be a legit 1C by the end of year 2 which would raise the level of that top6 by a mile on it’s own.
Then you have Laine& Gaudreau still in their prime, Johnson& Marchenko getting closer to their prime.

& in 24-25 I don’t have Jenner as a C

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Why would you ignore the part where I said next season& not this?

If Fantilli is as good as hoped he should be a legit 1C by the end of year 2 which would raise the level of that top6 by a mile on it’s own.
Then you have Laine& Gaudreau still in their prime, Johnson& Marchenko getting closer to their prime.

& in 24-25 I don’t have Jenner as a C

I didn't ignore that. Nor did I see where you have someone other than Jenner in your top 6 as C.
Who is that person playing top 6 C that makes us great to elite?

 

[BB88]

I didn't ignore that. Nor did I see where you have someone other than Jenner in your top 6 as C.
Who is that person playing top 6 C that makes us great to elite?

Because I listed my this years top6.

Either it’s Johnson or via trade/signing.
With the defense addressed this offseason(and in multiple drafts), it really leaves them with chance to focus solely on the C& net the next 12 months.

If Johnson takes the next step then absolutely fantastic no need to go outside, if he looks like a longterm winger then I’m bringing a legit 2C via trade, they have the assets to do that

If you don’t think that group has potential to be great to elite I don’t know what to say

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Because I listed my this years top6.

Either it’s Johnson or via trade/signing.
With the defense addressed this offseason(and in multiple drafts), it really leaves them with chance to focus solely on the C& net the next 12 months.

If Johnson takes the next step then absolutely fantastic no need to go outside, if he looks like a longterm winger then I’m bringing a legit 2C via trade, they have the assets to do that

If you don’t think that group has potential to be great to elite I don’t know what to say

Unfortunately, you wrote none of that in your post. So I was reacting only to what you did write. My point was and is we are absolutely wasting Johnny's prime years rolling him out there with Boone Jenner as his center this year and some unknown player next year. I have no idea what Johnson and Fantilli will become. One of them is a half a point per game winger and the other has never played a game in the NHL. My gut tells me Johnson will never be a top 6 C, but Fantilli hopefully will. That leaves some unknown player as a top 6 C, so until I know whom that player is, I can't possibly say they have potential to be great to elite.

This has all been known since before Fantilli was drafted, yet nothing was done to address it in the offseason.

 

[stevo61]

Unfortunately, you wrote none of that in your post. So I was reacting only to what you did write. My point was and is we are absolutely wasting Johnny's prime years rolling him out there with Boone Jenner as his center this year and some unknown player next year. I have no idea what Johnson and Fantilli will become. One of them is a half a point per game winger and the other has never played a game in the NHL. My gut tells me Johnson will never be a top 6 C, but Fantilli hopefully will. That leaves some unknown player as a top 6 C, so until I know whom that player is, I can't possibly say they have potential to be great to elite.

This has all been known since before Fantilli was drafted, yet nothing was done to address it in the offseason.

Center is not cheap or easy to address so its not surprising it wasnt. I dont think Johnson/Laine someday revisiting the center position is out of the question. Also while we did "waste" a year of Johnny prime we atleast got rewarded with Fantilli which is obviously significantly better than being a bubble team. We are still in wait and see mode for some of our young guys so actually pushing our chips in is a pretty significant gamble. Johnny himself has been on a good enough to make it team but not good enough to win team for years, im sure its not the end of the world to him if he has to wait a year or 2 for the team to actually be bit up properly

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Was listening to Porty's Podcast and he said Laine has a different "air" about him so far in camp. Seems like him taking Fantilli under his wing has made him "grow up" and understand his own importance to the CBJ success next season.

Laine is one of the more interesting guys in the league and I think if he starts to take a leadership role it would go a long way. Warts in his game or not, the dude has a presence in the league (especially for younger players who grew up watching him score 40 goals in Winnipeg) and if he can become one the leaders and truly start to engage more at all areas on the ice, that's something you can really build from.

 

[stevo61]

Was listening to Porty's Podcast and he said Laine has a different "air" about him so far in camp. Seems like him taking Fantilli under his wing has made him "grow up" and understand his own importance to the CBJ success next season.

Laine is one of the more interesting guys in the league and I think if he starts to take a leadership role it would go a long way. Warts in his game or not, the dude has a presence in the league (especially for younger players who grew up watching him score 40 goals in Winnipeg) and if he can become one the leaders and truly start to engage more at all areas on the ice, that's something you can really build from.

It definitely possible. Some dudes need responsibility or even feeling needed in that way to grow up

 

[OldGoaltender]

Was listening to Porty's Podcast and he said Laine has a different "air" about him so far in camp. Seems like him taking Fantilli under his wing has made him "grow up" and understand his own importance to the CBJ success next season.

Laine is one of the more interesting guys in the league and I think if he starts to take a leadership role it would go a long way. Warts in his game or not, the dude has a presence in the league (especially for younger players who grew up watching him score 40 goals in Winnipeg) and if he can become one the leaders and truly start to engage more at all areas on the ice, that's something you can really build from.

That’s a trait of a leader. Good for him. Please don’t let bus see this though.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Unfortunately, you wrote none of that in your post. So I was reacting only to what you did write. My point was and is we are absolutely wasting Johnny's prime years rolling him out there with Boone Jenner as his center this year and some unknown player next year. I have no idea what Johnson and Fantilli will become. One of them is a half a point per game winger and the other has never played a game in the NHL. My gut tells me Johnson will never be a top 6 C, but Fantilli hopefully will. That leaves some unknown player as a top 6 C, so until I know whom that player is, I can't possibly say they have potential to be great to elite.

This has all been known since before Fantilli was drafted, yet nothing was done to address it in the offseason.

I have a strong feeling that Laine and Fantilli will be glued together and sharing C responsibilities on the fly. The third player on their line will be interchangeable depending on needs and results. I have never before been this hyped about the season to start! There is so much potential and talent in this team, and we have no idea what VP can bring out of them, but it will certainly be an upgrade from the last two seasons.

I have high hopes and low expectations. All I want is to see the peak/remaining contract years of Gaudreau and Laine taken full advantage of, and Fantilli will be the key to having a top 6 that will make line matching against us a real head scratcher for the other coaches in the league.

 

[BB88]

Unfortunately, you wrote none of that in your post. So I was reacting only to what you did write. My point was and is we are absolutely wasting Johnny's prime years rolling him out there with Boone Jenner as his center this year and some unknown player next year. I have no idea what Johnson and Fantilli will become. One of them is a half a point per game winger and the other has never played a game in the NHL. My gut tells me Johnson will never be a top 6 C, but Fantilli hopefully will. That leaves some unknown player as a top 6 C, so until I know whom that player is, I can't possibly say they have potential to be great to elite.

This has all been known since before Fantilli was drafted, yet nothing was done to address it in the offseason.

Gaudreau isn’t the franchise player or the player they are building around.
He’s a superstar player who became available and they got him, an awesome addition but not the player you are building around.

Jiricek/Fantilli/Johnson is the expected core they are going to try to build this rebuild around and Laine& Gaudreau are high end ”support” players for it.

& you know they are going through a rebuild, those take time. & in comparison to many other rebuilds this really hasn’t been a long one yet and right now looks to be in great shape.
You don’t rebuild a perfect roster in 1 offseason, now this team looks to be set for W& defense longterm. The next step is to figure out the C& G longterm, but as said before it’s a rebuild and you need time to see/figure out what you have in your young players and then make moves as you see fit.
If Johnson becomes a legit top6 then you’ve saved yourself a ton of high end assets& cap. If he doesn’t then you know you have to make a move and you have the assets to make a move.

This was always going to be a growth/development year and when they are ready to make a push(2025->) Gaudreau will still be Gaudreau


& of course I’m listing the top6 for this year with the players we know they have in roster& that top6 has potential to be legit at the end of season.
With potential to be elite by 2024/25 season, how could you really argue otherwise?
Even without an addition they should have 4 legit 1st line talents on their top6 including a legit 1C. Heck maybe even 5 if Marchenko keeps developing.