Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[NotCommitted]

Meh I wrote a long post but **** that, that old stuff is water under the bridge but the upside here is that Laine seems to have a pretty good idea what he himself would've benefited from entering the league as a highly touted prospect (who performed at a level out the gate that just set the bar even higher) and seems set to make the transition to the league as smooth as he can for Fantilli. Like even if Fantilli doesn't really need any of that, just having a vet guy in your corner who came through a similar path and is still kind of young enough to not be of completely different generation is a big thing.

 

[traffic cone]

What is the hard evidence for mistreatment? It's always felt like conjecture to me.

And I don't think vets would be out of line if they sternly treated a kid who was staying up all night before games. That's what vets are for, upholding high standards of behavior.

Like you think Laine is just swallowing his anger at Wheeler but he might actually at this point appreciate that the vets were helping him to grow up.

Hard evidence is the fact that Laine has left, Maurice has left, many leaders (like Buff) have left and the Jets leadership group is still (or at least was before Wheeler left) seen as toxic. Wheeler’s C was also stripped earlier.

 

[3074326]

Hard evidence is the fact that Laine has left, Maurice has left, many leaders (like Buff) have left and the Jets leadership group is still (or at least was before Wheeler left) seen as toxic. Wheeler’s C was also stripped earlier.

Has Laine been involved in any kind of drama since arriving in Columbus? It always feels like his name is surrounded by drama on the internet, but he seems really quiet off the ice and it seems weird that there's so much drama.

 

[BB88]

I could really argue otherwise because at the moment we have exactly one elite player on the whole team. The top 6 are prospects who haven't proven shit at the NHL level and Patrik Laine.

If/when this team fails to be close to the playoffs this year a new GM will be in to put his own mark on things and God only knows how that will turn out. So let's not get ahead of ourselves with all this elite talk.

Why do you start talking about elite players?

I said legit 1st line players, you don’t have to be elite to be considered a 1st line player.

& you somehow don’t understand they are in a rebuild and in rebuilds people project. It’s a rebuild.

By your way they have
1 proven superstar forward, Gaudreau
1 proven star level forward, Laine
1 franchise level F prospect (best in franchise history), Fantilli
1 elite/tier A prospect, Johnson
1 top6 forward with potential to develop more, Marchenko.

If you have overall 4-5 legit 1st line players your top6 is going to be pretty damm good.

But oh now they have nothing for offense!

Fantilli has earned the right to have expectations put on him, it’s very different than putting expectations on some late 1st/2nd round pick.
Fantilli is the most talented pick they’ve ever had and he’s build for NHL

 

[VT]

If we are evaluating/comparing someone, we must first see if they had the same conditions. So franchise players first.

MacKinnon - Rantanen, Landesgok (if healthy) - Makar - Bednar
McDavid - Dreiseitl, RNH/ and vice versa
Kucherov - Point, Stamkos - Hedman, Sergachev - Cooper
Matthews - Marner/Nylander on PP Marner, Tavares, Nylander - Reilly
Pastrnak - Krejci, Bergeron, Marchandt - McAvoy
Hughes - Bratt, Hischier on PP - Hamilton, Severson - Ruff (btw, Hischier is important because there are two strong lines)
---
Elite:
Thompson - Touch, Skinner (but always plays with him in the line) - Dahlin, Power
Marner - see above
Robertson - Hintz, Pavelski - Heiskanen
Marchandt - Bergeron, Pastrnak (PP) - McAvoy
M. Tkachuk - various wingers, but Bennett as a center - Ekblad, Montour
Point - see above
etc, etc.

and now Laine
2021/22 - Jenner, Roslovic, Voracek, Nyquist (best line Nyquist -- Jenner -- Laine) - Werenski (often injured), Boqvist (often injured), Bean (often injured), so mostly Gavrikov and Peeke
2022/23 - 7 different lines Patrik Laine - Fantasy Hockey Game Logs, Advanced Stats and more - Frozen Tools + defense...

And that's not counting his injuries. Still, he had 1PPG in 2021/22 (56/56) and last season (55/52) and played over a point per game in the second half, so it's possible he could have at least 1PPG.

I think he's an elite player and if he's healthy, he can do it. We will see in the future.

P.S. I'd like to point out the "elite" play of Marner and Matthews in the PO.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Why do you start talking about elite players?

I said legit 1st line players, you don’t have to be elite to be considered a 1st line player.

& you somehow don’t understand they are in a rebuild and in rebuilds people project. It’s a rebuild.

By your way they have
1 proven superstar forward, Gaudreau
1 proven star level forward, Laine
1 franchise level F prospect (best in franchise history), Fantilli
1 elite/tier A prospect, Johnson
1 top6 forward with potential to develop more, Marchenko.

If you have overall 4-5 legit 1st line players your top6 is going to be pretty damm good.

But oh now they have nothing for offense!

Fantilli has earned the right to have expectations put on him, it’s very different than putting expectations on some late 1st/2nd round pick.
Fantilli is the most talented pick they’ve ever had and he’s build for NHL

I started talking about it because YOU brought it up. You said our top six including Jenner should be legit this year and great to elite next year. You then back tracked to say Jenner wouldn't be in the top 6 next year, but didn't identify who would. It has nothing to do with the rebuild, my understanding, or anything else. It has to do with what you wrote.

 

[majormajor]

Hard evidence is the fact that Laine has left, Maurice has left, many leaders (like Buff) have left and the Jets leadership group is still (or at least was before Wheeler left) seen as toxic. Wheeler’s C was also stripped earlier.

Those things suggest Wheeler might have been a bad leader, and believe me I've read the articles where he was pushed to lighten up because he was overbearing for younger players. But those bits of info don't tell you that Patty in particular was mistreated. You didn't even mention anything to do with Patty in your "hard evidence" of mistreatment of Patty. I don't find the idea hard to believe but this is not evidence of what you're claiming.

 

[Marioesque]

Those things suggest Wheeler might have been a bad leader, and believe me I've read the articles where he was pushed to lighten up because he was overbearing for younger players. But those bits of info don't tell you that Patty in particular was mistreated. You didn't even mention anything to do with Patty in your "hard evidence" of mistreatment of Patty. I don't find the idea hard to believe but this is not evidence of what you're claiming.

You're not going to find any "hard evidence", But considering all of the above and that they bought Wheeler out, it's hard not to suggest he wasn't a good influence.

This is about as hard as the evidence goes

Finnish report goes behind the scenes of Laine trade, blames Wheeler, Scheifele and Coach Maurice

Laine was pushed out!

www.hockeyfeed.com

Wheeler was threatened by Laines arrival, his role as the #1 RW was in jeopardy when Laine walked in and immediately started scoring at a much higher pace than Wheeler ever could. It didn't go over so well. Laine is a different person and is not scared by Fantilli, rather wants to support the player to be the best they can be.

But it's understandable in a way, Laine is a rare talent and Wheeler was a career 2nd liner before he was put in a position to be the #1 guy and he wasn't going to let that up. Laine has the confidence that Fantilli won't take his job, Wheeler had good reasons to think Laine would take his.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Those things suggest Wheeler might have been a bad leader, and believe me I've read the articles where he was pushed to lighten up because he was overbearing for younger players. But those bits of info don't tell you that Patty in particular was mistreated. You didn't even mention anything to do with Patty in your "hard evidence" of mistreatment of Patty. I don't find the idea hard to believe but this is not evidence of what you're claiming.

I sort of think it's more of what the Jets vets could have done to help more, not necessarily what they did. Laine seems to feel that he can help Fantilli more than he himself was helped, and it doesn't even need to be much. For Laine it would've been adjusting to life in North America too (much like we talk about the old CBJ with Zherdev/Brule etc in the other thread).

I have no problem believing that Laine probably wasn't the easiest person to give help to either, though. He's probably learned some lessons himself and wants to relay that forward.

 

[majormajor]

You're not going to find any "hard evidence", But considering all of the above and that they bought Wheeler out, it's hard not to suggest he wasn't a good influence.

This is about as hard as the evidence goes

Finnish report goes behind the scenes of Laine trade, blames Wheeler, Scheifele and Coach Maurice

Laine was pushed out!

www.hockeyfeed.com

The more trusted journalists have evidently decided that this wasn't trustworthy information.

I am aware that there were tensions between those players but you can't assume that it amounts to mistreatment.

 

[VT]

Patrik was an avid Fortnite player, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that one of the problems? The veterans might not have liked it. Just remember how Gudbranson reacted to Lars' training. And Lars was the HC.

Although I don't rule out that it may have been partly personal reasons. Laine had problems here at the start too, remember Cam Atkinson's reaction after the famous affair, and at the end of the season we red that he were traded precisely because the management preferred Patrik. In the end it became clear that the team needed a playmaker and Laine has a good relationship with Atkinson.

 

[thebus88]

Patrik was an avid Fortnite player, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that one of the problems? The veterans might not have liked it. Just remember how Gudbranson reacted to Lars' training. And Lars was the HC.

Although I don't rule out that it may have been partly personal reasons. Laine had problems here at the start too, remember Cam Atkinson's reaction after the famous affair, and at the end of the season we red that he were traded precisely because the management preferred Patrik. In the end it became clear that the team needed a playmaker and Laine has a good relationship with Atkinson.

Where is there anything that Gudbransons problem with those practices was solely on Larsen and not the other players or overall organizational structure??

Do you understand how much impact THE PLAYERS have on how effective practices are run? ITS THE NHL.

Also hilarious how quickly we forget the Larsen/Torts-Laine bench incident. But, that was of course just nothing also.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Where is there anything that Gudbransons problem with those practices was solely on Larsen and not the other players or overall organizational structure??

Do you understand how much impact THE PLAYERS have on how effective practices are run? ITS THE NHL.

Also hilarious how quickly we forget the Larsen/Torts-Laine bench incident. But, that was of course just nothing also.

 

[JacketsDavid]

I will admit I didn't like Laine when we acquired him (lack of effort it seemed).

But I like hearing that he wants to play center so badly, has been working on faceoffs. I have NO idea if it will stick, but you know if he's more engaged (which he was last season) then by all means let's give it a try at least in pre-season.

He has a unique skill set (scoring goals) and if he's engaged on both ends of the ice and can make his linemates better, then I'm all for testing/trying it.

 

[jonu]

Patrik was an avid Fortnite player, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that one of the problems? The veterans might not have liked it.

Afaik, Fortnite was a way to escape and spend time because there's not much to do in WPG

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Patrik was an avid Fortnite player, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that one of the problems?

no one tell blake wheeler but i also plan on decompressing from my workday by sitting on the couch, staring at a screen and fully dissociating for a couple hours tonight.

 

[squashmaple]

no one tell blake wheeler but i also plan on decompressing from my workday by sitting on the couch, staring at a screen and fully dissociating for a couple hours tonight.

Ope, me too. I'm currently over a half hour past my log off time, still listening to a nutty senior citizen telling me about how she was too tall to be a Rockette and about being conscious during spinal surgery. I'm honestly having a blast listening to her, but I can't wait to go stare thoughtlessly at a screen without my brain online.

 

[VT]

no one tell blake wheeler but i also plan on decompressing from my workday by sitting on the couch, staring at a screen and fully dissociating for a couple hours tonight.

 

[VT]

Afaik, Fortnite was a way to escape and spend time because there's not much to do in WPG

This isn't about how one can spend time in Winnipeg, it's about whether the veterans thought about it. More precisely whether he, according their time didn't play too much.

 

[majormajor]

Afaik, Fortnite was a way to escape and spend time because there's not much to do in WPG

no one tell blake wheeler but i also plan on decompressing from my workday by sitting on the couch, staring at a screen and fully dissociating for a couple hours tonight.

Playing video games was never the bone of contention, it was playing them all night that was the problem. I'd hope our leaders (including Laine) would say something about it if we have a young player doing that.

 

[Byrral]

Where is there anything that Gudbransons problem with those practices was solely on Larsen and not the other players or overall organizational structure??

Do you understand how much impact THE PLAYERS have on how effective practices are run? ITS THE NHL.

Also hilarious how quickly we forget the Larsen/Torts-Laine bench incident. But, that was of course just nothing also.

What's hilarious is you continuing your grievances by bringing up former players and coaches that have been gone for year(s).

Torts was a good coach until he wasn't and Larsen is a nice guy but he was a disaster as coach. Laine may not have been the best citizen in that situation but he is one of the best players on this team whether you believe it or not.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Patrik was an avid Fortnite player, if I'm not mistaken. Wasn't that one of the problems? The veterans might not have liked it. n.

No. Made up shit by different internet boards, like this place, reddit and twitter. He plays games, so does probably everyone in the league who's his age or younger. And a lot of the "older" folk too. There's not a single shred of evidence that Patty's gaming hindered his playing. This whole thing's so stupid and should die.

 

[Xoggz22]

Successful, happy and healthy Laine is only good for this team. He seems to be saying (Again) the right things and appears to be backing that up with his efforts. He started with a bad rep and that's hard to shake, especially if you can't stay healthy and show that PPG production isn't just a part time thing. He was always considered to have some elite traits. He's only 25 and if the addition of Fantilli provides solid guidance for Adam and a step back to relevency for Laine... I'm happy too.

Part of me really hopes he not only stays healthy but goes back to the 40+ goal scorer and CBJ wins because of it. I have no vested interest in him beyond being a fan of the CBJ and his skill set but I would love to see what the mains have to say if he gets back to that level. Would be fun to have that discussion. Gee... Laine is underpaid at $8.5AAV... wouldn't that be such a good thing for this team?

 

[Marioesque]

If he does play healthy, I expect the homeless charity to get a cheque over 100k after the season

 

[cbjthrowaway]

okay i'm not saying patrik laine is definitely a center but he's put up multiple points in all three games (2 reg season, 1 preseason) he's played at center…

0-2–2 in both of his games there last season and 2-0–2 today. nice little 55-109–164 line over 82 games lol