Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[thebus88]

A rising tide lifts all boats.

Team is at it's best when it's individuals are performing at their best and contributing through their strengths. That's just good management of assets.

It's a weird thought process that NOT putting Laine in position to succeed would make the team better. That makes no sense. The success Laine has is strictly tied to the team he represents. His goals are counted for the team.

What about ALL the other players and their “position to succeed”??

How many of them would benefit from a situation nearly identical to Laine? And quite literally all of them seemingly look to be here well after Laine is long gone.

He’s not some Panarin/Nash level impactful/game changing player. And why are some people still acting like HE hasn’t asked to be traded??

 

[CannonFire1]

I'

Waddell can't afford it. Otherwise, not only other players could take advantage of it, but GMs of other teams as well. Which would weaken his position. If everyone understood his offer to Montreal for Kotkaniemi, for a player like Laine who is not a cancer to the team not.

I'm not sure what offer you are referring to? I don't think they should accept any garbage offer like the ones circulated on these boards. But I also don't think they need to hold out for a huge return. There has to be a middle ground. The sooner they find that, the better.

 

[VT]

I'

I'm not sure what offer you are referring to? I don't think they should accept any garbage offer like the ones circulated on these boards. But I also don't think they need to hold out for a huge return. There has to be a middle ground. The sooner they find that, the better.

The problem is that every GM wants us to keep half the salary because many players with not too good contracts have M-NTC, NTC or NMC. They also have "leverage" since Laine was in the PAP. Barring a miracle, Patrik should start with the team and then we'll see. Btw, in that case, there is still a chance he will change his mind if he plays well and is healthy. Small, but there is. The injuries were pretty unfortunate, it can't last forever.

 

[CannonFire1]

The problem is that every GM wants us to keep half the salary because many players with not too good contracts have M-NTC, NTC or NMC. They also have "leverage" since Laine was in the PAP. Barring a miracle, Patrik should start with the team and then we'll see. Btw, in that case, there is still a chance he will change his mind if he plays well and is healthy. Small, but there is. The injuries were pretty unfortunate, it can't last forever.

We all understand the dance.

 

[VT]

We all understand the dance.

There is nothing new to write. So we repeat, with no one changing their mind.

 

[CBJx614]

To be fair, this could be a motivator for Laine as well, almost like a player in a contract year. Obviously it would be best to just rip off the bandaid and move on. But Laine could be playing knowing he's showcasing himself for the deadline.

Edit: or maybe we get lucky and he plays well and starts to gain some chemistry with someone like Johnny and we don't need to trade him.

 

[koteka]

We won’t do it, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if we waived him to send him to the Monsters. Would he get claimed?

 

[VT]

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

We won’t do it, but it would be interesting to see what would happen if we waived him to send him to the Monsters. Would he get claimed?

I think he would get claimed.

Actually a very interesting proposition for everybody - if they agree on it beforehand and it doesn't come as a shock, I wonder if Patty would be able to prove himself in the AHL with a bit less media scrutiny and get a temporary change of scenery and just enjoy hockey a bit more in an environment where everything is in flux anyway (players going up and down etc). Would leave the Jackets free to build up chemistry with players known to stay. Assuming he wouldn't get claimed, I'm working both sides here.

But I doubt Patty would agree to it, as he loses any control over the team that would pick him. I doubt he's that desperate for a change of scenery.

 

[majormajor]

I think he would get claimed.

Very few teams have the cap space to pull that off, they'd need a proper trade.

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

Very few teams have the cap space to pull that off, they'd need a proper trade.

They can get that cap space with a different trade, even within the waiver time limit. I imagine that's a lot easier for many teams than trying to figure it out with CBJ or in a three-way trade.

 

[Cowumbus]

The part folks are often leaving out is that "putting player x in a position to succeed" often means that player y will be in less of a position to succeed. You only have so many offensive minutes to go around, only so many PP minutes.

It's not my money, but personally I think the team might be better off just eating half of his salary and getting it over with. No drama, easier for the coach to focus on the long term pieces, we've got our young guns getting the offensive minutes they need, and very importantly we remove the risk that Laine gets injured again, as he has at the beginning of several seasons. The return is the least important part of this equation.

As normal, major says much more clearly and succinctly the point I am trying to make. Spot on.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

They can get that cap space with a different trade, even within the waiver time limit. I imagine that's a lot easier for many teams than trying to figure it out with CBJ or in a three-way trade.

When the season starts it will be hard to find 8 million in free cap space from anybody to take him on for nothing. I don’t think simply making a different trade to clear space will be as easy as you think.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

What about ALL the other players and their “position to succeed”??

How many of them would benefit from a situation nearly identical to Laine? And quite literally all of them seemingly look to be here well after Laine is long gone.

"putting laine in a position to succeed" in context means three very specific things:

1. placed on a scoring line at 5v5
2. not forced to play center
3. put in his one-timer spot on the power play

there are certainly other players who would benefit from being placed in that "identical situation" but let's not act like he was somehow coddled with his deployment, or that he's not a significantly more impactful player right now than the alternatives on the roster.

He’s not some Panarin/Nash level impactful/game changing player. And why are some people still acting like HE hasn’t asked to be traded??

he's not a franchise player, but he is a legitimate top line scoring winger when healthy, which is… still a good piece to have?

to wit:

that's… pretty good company to keep!

 

[squashmaple]

To be fair, this could be a motivator for Laine as well, almost like a player in a contract year. Obviously it would be best to just rip off the bandaid and move on. But Laine could be playing knowing he's showcasing himself for the deadline.

Edit: or maybe we get lucky and he plays well and starts to gain some chemistry with someone like Johnny and we don't need to trade him.

The funniest outcome would be Monahan coming in and clicking with Laine perfectly despite not being the kind of center Laine usually excels with, forcing them to split up Johnny and Monahan because Laine and Johnny just don't work together for some reason. Then Johnny ends up on a line with Fantilli and we never look back, while Winnipeg seethes.

"putting laine in a position to succeed" in context means three very specific things:

1. placed on a scoring line at 5v5
2. not forced to play center
3. put in his one-timer spot on the power play

there are certainly other players who would benefit from being placed in that "identical situation" but let's not act like he was somehow coddled with his deployment, or that he's not a significantly more impactful player right now than the alternatives on the roster.

he's not a franchise player, but he is a legitimate top line scoring winger when healthy, which is… still a good piece to have?

to wit: [Laine][Konecny][Marchessault]


that's… pretty good company to keep!

Thank you for posting those jfresh cards! Not sure why you're answering in good faith to someone who wasn't making a good faith argument themselves, but I appreciate that you did.

 

[VT]

The funniest outcome would be Monahan coming in and clicking with Laine perfectly despite not being the kind of center Laine usually excels with, forcing them to split up Johnny and Monahan because Laine and Johnny just don't work together for some reason. Then Johnny ends up on a line with Fantilli and we never look back, while Winnipeg seethes.

Except Laine probably won't be tried with Monahan. And if yes, not without Johnny. One more thing, the centers (Jenner, Roslovic) could have been a problem, more precisely their style of play. It's possible Monahan could change that.

To the center. Who thought he'd have such great chemistry with Boone Jenner or Yegor Chinakhov? Boone is a someone between a power forward and a grinder, Yegor is a sniper.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

"putting laine in a position to succeed" in context means three very specific things:

1. placed on a scoring line at 5v5
2. not forced to play center
3. put in his one-timer spot on the power play

there are certainly other players who would benefit from being placed in that "identical situation" but let's not act like he was somehow coddled with his deployment, or that he's not a significantly more impactful player right now than the alternatives on the roster.


he's not a franchise player, but he is a legitimate top line scoring winger when healthy, which is… still a good piece to have?

to wit:

that's… pretty good company to keep!

I don’t recall him being forced to play center. He wanted to try it.

 

[CBJx614]

Except Laine probably won't be tried with Monahan. And if yes, not without Johnny. One more thing, the centers (Jenner, Roslovic) could have been a problem, more precisely their style of play. It's possible Monahan could change that.

To the center. Who thought he'd have such great chemistry with Boone Jenner or Yegor Chinakhov? Boone is a someone between a power forward and a grinder, Yegor is a sniper.

Why wouldn't he be tried with Monahan?

We have a new coach with 0 pre conceived notions about who to play each other with. They are all but guaranteed to run with each at some point during camp and practice.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I don’t recall him being forced to play center. He wanted to try it.

player is open to playing a new position ≠ player is best served by playing that position

especially when coming back from a major concussion

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Why wouldn't he be tried with Monahan?

yeah i'm with you – i disagree with the board's skepticism re: laine + monahan working together.

the laine-jenner-nyquist line was awesome because jenner was a north/south netfront guy and could win o-zone face-offs, and nyquist was a cerebral off-puck player who could retrieve pucks and be a secondary puckhandler in transition.

monahan, like jenner, does most of his damage in front of the net and is an ace on the face-off dot. he's also a really good passer and is a gifted puck-carrier in transition – two areas where boone is lacking. there's no reason to think that he can't find similar success with laine in the offensive zone.

 

[squashmaple]

yeah i'm with you – i disagree with the board's skepticism re: laine + monahan working together.

the laine-jenner-nyquist line was awesome because jenner was a north/south netfront guy and could win o-zone face-offs, and nyquist was a cerebral off-puck player who could retrieve pucks and be a secondary puckhandler in transition.

monahan, like jenner, does most of his damage in front of the net and is an ace on the face-off dot. he's also a really good passer and is a gifted puck-carrier in transition – two areas where boone is lacking. there's no reason to think that he can't find similar success with laine in the offensive zone.

Monahan isn't like Jenner, though. He's not getting in the dirty areas, even if he's parked in front of the net. Plays with more finesse, too.

 

[Marioesque]

Monahan isn't like Jenner, though. He's not getting in the dirty areas, even if he's parked in front of the net. Plays with more finesse, too.

Monahan is good for Gaudreau because Johnny loves to throw passes to the slot and Monahan goes to those areas by instinct (he's not a physical presence but he'll get his stick in there).

 

[Cowumbus]

"putting laine in a position to succeed" in context means three very specific things:

1. placed on a scoring line at 5v5

Scoring line, meaning what? Playing with offensive players? Any line with Laine is going to be a scoring line as he’s not going to be a lock down defender.

1. not forced to play center

Forced is an interesting word choice. But yes, he needs to be far away from C - as I said before he even tried it. Remember when people were saying Laine was good at C after 1 game. Those were good times. Ah the good ol days.

1. put in his one-timer spot on the power play

Have we ever really seen him have success in that spot in Cbus? Why is it so important? What if the team is better running the PP through JG and a different formation/style?

there are certainly other players who would benefit from being placed in that "identical situation" but let's not act like he was somehow coddled with his deployment, or that he's not a significantly more impactful player right now than the alternatives on the roster.

It’s not apples to apples though. Getting Laine into the situation you mention above impacts other players and their situations as well. We need the TEAM to be in the best situation possible.

The best situation might be Laine next to Kuraly and Danforth and playing PP1 like Sprong - I have no idea. Just figure out what’s best for the team, not Laine.

 

[Marioesque]

Have we ever really seen him have success in that spot in Cbus? Why is it so important? What if the team is better running the PP through JG and a different formation/style?

It’s not apples to apples though. Getting Laine into the situation you mention above impacts other players and their situations as well. We need the TEAM to be in the best situation possible.

The best situation might be Laine next to Kuraly and Danforth and playing PP1 like Sprong - I have no idea. Just figure out what’s best for the team, not Laine.

It's important because CBJ PP is and has been awful. Laine is an excellent PP player, the most effective shooter in the game from distance. Jarmo pointed it out when getting him, one of the best PP players in the league. And he was that in Winnipeg, he could have done the same in CBJ but unfortunately they decided to let Werenski run the PP (this is not for the best of the team, this is for Werenskis benefit) and it works at a much lower percentage as it should with Laine in the roster.

It has not worked in Cbus, not because Laine can't do the same job as he did in Jets, but because the PP revolves around a lesser shooter who can't distribute the puck to his left without projecting it to the world. They have tried to solve this issue by moving Laine around, putting him on RD position in PP completely nullifying a onetimer option. That's not proper problem solving in my opinion.

The expectation is that if the PP ran properly and was geared towards getting shots from Laine, the percentage would be much higher than it is with currently failing combinations.

Why is it important to have a 25% PP rather than a 17% PP you ask? Eh?

Traditionally the dilemma of "how should we use our best player" is by playing them the most minutes and situations where they can help the team the most. I can't think of any examples where teams stick their best player in 4th line just so it doesn't benefit that player. Because the team suffers as well.

If you're trying to tank his value then 4th line sounds right. But why would they be trying to tank his value when trying to get something back for him? They should highlight him to get the best possible return

 

[Viqsi]

Remember when people were saying Laine was good at C after 1 game.

I don't think anyone actualy went so far as to say he was definitely good at it; just that he looked promising and that it could work and there was a lot of cautious optimism.

I do miss those days, though. Those were nice days.