Value of: Patrick Kane to NYR

[GreatSaveEssensa]

I mean yea. Laf has been extremely disappointing. Far from expectations for a number one overall pick.

You should check out Stamkos, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Thorton’s etc etc numbers at the ripe ol age of 20.

To say a 20 yr old is a reclamation project is one of the stupider things I’ve seen on HF lately. Thats an accomplishment to say the least.

 

[Kupo]

You're not getting Kane or any other star player without parting with a high-end piece. I don't really think Laf & Kakko are the high-end pieces they used to be either. Their value has been gradually dropping since they've been drafted.

Laf + Lundqvist + CAP + 1st

For a year on a player we can’t afford? Lmao. Ok. Can we throw in Fox too….? We’ll even retain half for shits and giggles.

 

[Kupo]

You should check out Stamkos, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Thorton’s etc etc numbers at the ripe ol age of 20.

To say a 20 yr old is a reclamation project is one of the stupider things I’ve seen on HF lately. Thats an accomplishment to say the least.

That poster hates anything NYR related because Kakko/Laf we’re off the table for Eichel, but one of them have to be included for 1 year of Kane despite their bust-status. Asinine logic at its best.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

they're bidding against the opportunity cost of not having a player like him, he stays in Chicago, NYR are missing that extra elite piece offensively and don't win a cup because of it...thats the scenario they're bidding against, not saying it will happen but thats how management will be looking at it

If he stays in Chicago the Rangers have lost nothing.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

If he stays in Chicago the Rangers have lost nothing.

thats not how opportunity cost works tho, you lose out on an elite game changing winger that has as good of a playoff pedigree as anyone

 

[jason karlzzan]

You should check out Stamkos, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Thorton’s etc etc numbers at the ripe ol age of 20.

To say a 20 yr old is a reclamation project is one of the stupider things I’ve seen on HF lately. Thats an accomplishment to say the least.

I agree that he is not a reclamation project but comparing him to Stamkos at 20 is pretty hilarious. He had b2b 90+ point seasons and a Rocket Richard lol.

 

[TGWL]

Rangers have about 70 million tied up with roster players/dead cap for next season.

Currently our lineup looks like this
Kreider - Zibanejad -
Panarin - -
Laf - Chytil - (Kakko is an RFA)
Hunt- Brodzinski - Reaves (Brodzinski would probably be replaced here but same cap hit nonetheless)

Lindren - Fox
Miller - Trouba
Nemeth - Schneider

Shesterkin
- (Geo is a RFA and the organization told him they would find a new team for him)

That leaves a lot of holes to fill with very little money. Even if NYR decided they would part with Laf, adding in 50% of Kane (5.75) is going to be tough without a lot of deadweight cap on the roster to move. Whatever it takes to land Kane, it also means losing a player like Copp, Vatrano, or Motte on top of the assets spent. (None of those players are as good, obviously, but they still have a place on the roster if we re-signed them.) The season after would be that much harder with Kane at whatever full hit it takes to extend him.

I know fans are all "It wouldn't take a Laf/Kakko", but considering their ELC's expire this season and next, yeah one of them would have to be moved, unless Laf can play 2c. Since the organization doesn't want to do that (at least I think), then it means there's no chance they can fit Kane an expect a hopeful extension.

 

[Il Stugotz]

The return really depends on how much information is known about Kane’s willingness to waive the NMC. Is Kakko really on the table if no one else is making offers?

And if he’s signing an extension

 

[Kupo]

The return really depends on how much information is known about Kane’s willingness to waive the NMC. Is Kakko really on the table if no one else is making offers?

And if he’s signing an extension

Kakko’s not on the table even if other teams are making offers. And an extension isn’t realistically possible considering the Rangers needs and cap space.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

thats not how opportunity cost works tho, you lose out on an elite game changing winger that has as good of a playoff pedigree as anyone

So are the Rangers bidding to change Kane’s mind? Because without that happening, there is no opportunity cost.

As of now, there is none.

 

[TommyDangles]

For a year on a player we can’t afford? Lmao. Ok. Can we throw in Fox too….? We’ll even retain half for shits and giggles.

It's always funny when Rags fans act like you're asking for the moon when it's a fair return for a star player 50% retained.

CaN wE ThRoW iN FoX toO

 

[TommyDangles]

That poster hates anything NYR related because Kakko/Laf we’re off the table for Eichel, but one of them have to be included for 1 year of Kane despite their bust-status. Asinine logic at its best.

What? Why would I want Kakko/Laf lmao? I was adamant about not wanting anything to do with the Rangers. Would take Krebs/Tuch over either of Kakko/Laf easily. Like it's not even close.

I mean what other players would you include in a trade? Rangers aren't gonna trade Schneider or Othmann. Kakko / Laf are about the only forward trade chips with some value you got. They're just not the super high value pieces you think they are. Some team will think that they can fix them.

 

[TommyDangles]

You should check out Stamkos, Huberdeau, Scheifele, Thorton’s etc etc numbers at the ripe ol age of 20.

To say a 20 yr old is a reclamation project is one of the stupider things I’ve seen on HF lately. Thats an accomplishment to say the least.

Did you even bother look up the guys you mentioned lol?

Stamkos had 95 points in 82 games his second year...

Huberdeau won the calder his rookie year... struggled his second but still showed way more than Laf at that point

Scheifele was at .54 PPG at 20

Thornton had a massive leap in production his second year.

Laf's development fits more with Yakupov & Nolan Patrick compared to those 4. The only thing that's impressive is the massive cope when anyone points it out.

You can just repeat "he's just 20!" all you want, but you gotta grow up fast in this league. Guys aren't guaranteed to get better when they're older. He has 128 games under his belt and will be going into his 3rd year. The days of him being a blue-chip piece are gone. Any team trading for him is taking on a reclamation project to try and get him back where he was supposed to be.

 

[bernmeister]

I understand you all want NY's bluest blue chips but NO.
We will keep our youth and deal vets, as soon as we can.
ecls-.>rfas needed to develop/replace and also manage cap

GIVE IT UP

 

[Hockey Gamer]

Proposing trades has become very backwards on here. Most trades are proposed where one team searches for prospects that they covet and then cobble together whatever idea they can throw up as a way to get those prospects, even if the asset they're offering doesn't make any sense for the other team. Instead of placing the prospects that you want first, why not first ask yourself what teams would make good partners with us that need one year of Patrick Kane (winger)?

Does that fit the need of the Rangers?

I did some browsing on the Hawks forum a couple of weeks ago and even saw a bunch of fans say that Kane is the last thing the Rangers need. Not sure why this discussion is even still going on here.

 

[Kupo]

It's always funny when Rags fans act like you're asking for the moon when it's a fair return for a star player 50% retained.

CaN wE ThRoW iN FoX toO

How often do you see recent 1st and 2nd OA’s traded for pending free agents? It’s not a fair return because you think it is. This thread was created by a Blackhawks fan. The Rangers don’t want or need a high priced winger.

 

[TommyDangles]

How often do you see recent 1st and 2nd OA’s traded for pending free agents? It’s not a fair return because you think it is. This thread was created by a Blackhawks fan. The Rangers don’t want or need a high priced winger.

Laf has the worst numbers of a #1 OA in a long time. He's not a typical number 1. Even if they struggle their first year they show big improvement year 2. Laf hasn't done that. You can say how often do you see recent 1st/2nd traded, but how often do the 1st/2nd OA look this disappointing? The last one got traded after his 3rd year.

Laf + Lundqvist + 1st isn't the huge package you think it is.

 

[Kupo]

Laf has the worst numbers of a #1 OA in a long time. He's not a typical number 1. Even if they struggle their first year they show big improvement year 2. Laf hasn't done that. You can say how often do you see recent 1st/2nd traded, but how often do the 1st/2nd OA look this disappointing? The last one got traded after his 3rd year.

Laf + Lundqvist + 1st isn't the huge package you think it is.

How many 1st overalls have a Kreider and Panarin ahead of them on the depth chart and see zero PP time?

And that package is enormous for a rental that doesn’t fill a need on the team. You clearly don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

And the last one 1st OA traded after his 4th season, not third. Yak had played about 250 games with Edmonton before they moved on from him. Assuming Lafreniere is in Yak territory is asinine.

 

[Mrfenn92]

I understand you all want NY's bluest blue chips but NO.
We will keep our youth and deal vets, as soon as we can.
ecls-.>rfas needed to develop/replace and also manage cap

GIVE IT UP

We all don’t want your bluest of blue chips. Yet you do go after others bluest of blues

Proposing trades has become very backwards on here. Most trades are proposed where one team searches for prospects that they covet and then cobble together whatever idea they can throw up as a way to get those prospects, even if the asset they're offering doesn't make any sense for the other team. Instead of placing the prospects that you want first, why not first ask yourself what teams would make good partners with us that need one year of Patrick Kane (winger)?

Does that fit the need of the Rangers?

I did some browsing on the Hawks forum a couple of weeks ago and even saw a bunch of fans say that Kane is the last thing the Rangers need. Not sure why this discussion is even still going on here.

really not many hawks fans commenting on this thread at all

 

[Mrfenn92]

thats not how opportunity cost works tho, you lose out on an elite game changing winger that has as good of a playoff pedigree as anyone

This has been covered on here before the deadline really ad nauseam. Just not a fit between either team. Even with the Panarin connection

 

[TommyDangles]

How many 1st overalls have a Kreider and Panarin ahead of them on the depth chart and see zero PP time?

And that package is enormous for a rental that doesn’t fill a need on the team. You clearly don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.

And the last one 1st OA traded after his 4th season, not third. Yak had played about 250 games with Edmonton before they moved on from him. Assuming Lafreniere is in Yak territory is asinine.

Make all the excuses you want man. He's not the only young guy on a good team. So are Lundell & Jarvis. They have played great. The guy has had the worst first 2 years production wise of a 1OA since Chris Phillips in 97 and he was a defensive d man.

It's not enormous for someone of Kane's caliber. You just think Laf is way better than everybody else does.

Nolan Patrick got traded after his 3rd season. You said 1st/2ndOA.

And Oilers should've probably moved him sooner. They waited till his value was only that of a 3rd round pick.

After 2 years

Yakupov had 55 points in 111 games (.49PPG)

Laf had 47 points in 129 games (.36 PPG)

Even if you want to take out PP they have the same PPG after 2 years. Yea really asinine

 

[Kupo]

Make all the excuses you want man. He's not the only young guy on a good team. So are Lundell & Jarvis. They have played great. The guy has had the worst first 2 years production wise of a 1OA since Chris Phillips in 97 and he was a defensive d man.

It's not enormous for someone of Kane's caliber. You just think Laf is way better than everybody else does.

Nolan Patrick got traded after his 3rd season. You said 1st/2ndOA.

And Oilers should've probably moved him sooner. They waited till his value was only that of a 3rd round pick.

After 2 years

Yakupov had 55 points in 111 games (.49PPG)

Laf had 47 points in 129 games (.36 PPG)

Even if you want to take out PP they have the same PPG after 2 years. Yea really asinine

I don’t think Lafreniere is as good as you assume. Look at the Hughes/Laf thread so you have a better idea. At the end of the day, Lafreniere’s value to the Rangers is greater than a years worth of Kane. Especially when you factor in +’s on top of him. And even more so when the reality of not being able to afford him, even at 50% retention sets in.

We’ll keep Laf. 17G his second season with no PP time. He’s only going to get better.

 

[bernmeister]

We all don’t want your bluest of blue chips. Yet you do go after others bluest of blues

....

1. underline = you're wrong b'c eye test shows this is the ongoing ask from NYR by other fans bases.
2. bold = you're wrong to characterize it as a disparaging negative. But you continue to do you. I will continue to tell it like it is, and rebut as necessary.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I mean yea. Laf has been extremely disappointing. Far from expectations for a number one overall pick.

Most EV goals on the Rangers for over a calendar year. We'll keep our disappointment and you can keep over the hill Kane.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

thats not how opportunity cost works tho, you lose out on an elite game changing winger that has as good of a playoff pedigree as anyone

I seem to remember a very good Nashville team with great wingers, dmen and vezina goalie and they faltered because their center depth was thin to start then got decimated. Kane's cost doesn't fix our problems and only fixes your problems. Our priorities are 2C, 4C, and top 6 LD...which is only gravy after center is solved. We have Kreider, Bread, Laf, Kaako, Othmann as our invested wingers.