GDT: Panthers @ Canes 2/7/14 - 7 PM

[tarheelhockey]

I watched Tlusty miss point blank against the Winnipeg and pass to no one multiple times against Florida. Ruutu has more giveaways, but that's not necessarily all bad.

I'm not talking about "more giveaways" on a stat sheet, I'm talking about the puck dying on his stick. He made a couple of decent plays last night, that's nice... he also made some terrible plays. A couple of good shifts in a blowout against Florida doesn't outweigh a whole season of futility. If anything, it reinforces the long-running narrative that he earns his laurels at garbage time.

I don't disagree that Ruutu turns the puck over a lot. I don't disagree that since he gets paid more, more is expected of him. But I question why Ruutu is almost universally disliked for his on ice play while Tlusty is not when they're posting very similar seasons.

You can't just ignore the context of a player's role and career when asking that kind of question. Tlusty is basically a grinder, getting paid like a grinder, who plays strictly inside of his skill set. Ruutu is a power forward, who gets paid like a top-6'er, and is playing like a grinder. One of these players is a massive disappointment and cap problem, the other is a guy who came back to earth after a crazy short season.

 

[Joe McGrath]

^Tlusty got beat out for an Olympic bid by a geriatric Petr Nedved. Clearly he sucks.

 

[The Faulker 27]

It's going to take a lot of puck luck and a well placed shot to score on Price at this point. Not to mention a great screen. Petty much everything that resulted in Bowman's goal.

This isn't looking good.

 

[The Faulker 27]

Finish strong. Nope.

Edit: I know. Wrong thread. Plenty of fail tonight.

 

[What the Faulk]

I'm not talking about "more giveaways" on a stat sheet, I'm talking about the puck dying on his stick. He made a couple of decent plays last night, that's nice... he also made some terrible plays. A couple of good shifts in a blowout against Florida doesn't outweigh a whole season of futility. If anything, it reinforces the long-running narrative that he earns his laurels at garbage time.

But it isn't a whole season of futility. Ruutu is producing in limited minutes with limitedly talented linemates. I don't know why you cut it off, but I'll say it again: Ruutu is 5th on the team in 5v5 points/60. Tlusty is 7th, barely above Jordan.

And that narrative is exactly that: garbage. What happened tonight? His line was everywhere and they opened the scoring. Points in a blowout are things that happen to everyone, and Tlusty cleaned up an Eric Staal rebound in that Florida game to make his year seem better. How is that not exactly what you're criticizing Ruutu for?

You can't just ignore the context of a player's role and career when asking that kind of question. Tlusty is basically a grinder, getting paid like a grinder, who plays strictly inside of his skill set. Ruutu is a power forward, who gets paid like a top-6'er, and is playing like a grinder. One of these players is a massive disappointment and cap problem, the other is a guy who came back to earth after a crazy short season.

Sure I can, considering I stated on ice factors. You yourself have criticized Ruutu for being terrible (he hasn't been), while anything negative about Tlusty rarely surfaces despite playing (and not producing) in a far larger role.

JR built the team. It's up to Muller to use them. To Muller, money doesn't mean a thing. Or shouldn't, at least. Ruutu's contract is locked in. Expectations aren't going to change what he's paid. It was a gamble, and a mistake. But when he's producing in limited role, it should be acknowledged. When another guy isn't producing in a expanded role, he should be criticized. That's all I'm saying.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But it isn't a whole season of futility. Ruutu is producing in limited minutes with limitedly talented linemates. I don't know why you cut it off, but I'll say it again: Ruutu is 5th on the team in 5v5 points/60. Tlusty is 7th, barely above Jordan.

That number is largely a function of usage. Sure, Ruutu is producing more points per minute than Jordan; he's also skating fewer minutes against easier competition in more favorable offensive situations. Having a higher rate of production in those circumstances doesn't imply that he could swap roles with a top-6er and still continue to produce. Simply watching the guy play, it's obvious he gets eaten alive by top defenders.

And that narrative is exactly that: garbage. What happened tonight? His line was everywhere and they opened the scoring. Points in a blowout are things that happen to everyone, and Tlusty cleaned up an Eric Staal rebound in that Florida game to make his year seem better. How is that not exactly what you're criticizing Ruutu for?

Yes, the 4th line was our best line last night. Sad but true. It had a lot to do with outworking Montreal's lower lines while their top-6 skated circles around ours.

As for Tlusty, I don't remember anyone pumping his tires over a tap-in goal. In fact I don't remember anyone saying he's been anything but a LaRose-esque glue guy this season. It's universally recognized that he feasted on the TEA line last season and is now struggling because his linemates aren't dominating anymore. What else needs to be said about him? He is what we always knew he was, unlike Ruutu who has been on a downward spiral for years.

JR built the team. It's up to Muller to use them. To Muller, money doesn't mean a thing. Or shouldn't, at least. Ruutu's contract is locked in. Expectations aren't going to change what he's paid. It was a gamble, and a mistake. But when he's producing in limited role, it should be acknowledged. When another guy isn't producing in a expanded role, he should be criticized. That's all I'm saying.

In their past 14 games, Tlusty has outscored Ruutu 9-4. Even with Ruutu on a "hot" streak (if that's what you can call 2 assists in 6 games) he's still not a significant scoring factor. I'm not sure what praise you've been hearing for Tlusty lately, but I'm guessing it's tempered by the reality that he's just a plug-in who can grind pucks out of the corners for Staal and Semin. He wasn't even on the first line anymore by the end of the Montreal game.

 

[RodTheBawd]

In their past 14 games, Tlusty has outscored Ruutu 9-4. Even with Ruutu on a "hot" streak (if that's what you can call 2 assists in 6 games) he's still not a significant scoring factor.

I'll stay out of your guys' argument, but that's not being fair to Ruutu. Points aren't the only measure of what he's done the last few games and just because it wasn't on the scoresheet, doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the goals he didn't get an point for.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I'll stay out of your guys' argument, but that's not being fair to Ruutu. Points aren't the only measure of what he's done the last few games and just because it wasn't on the scoresheet, doesn't mean he didn't contribute to the goals he didn't get an point for.

You could say the same thing for Tlusty, who is typically the guy to go into the corners or screen the goalie without actually handling the puck.

Either way, we're talking about two plugs here. Having a decent couple of games is a FAR cry from being a key player.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Ehh.. agree to disagree I guess. It's silly that I'm talking about 2 games here, but Ruutu has been the key component in the Trade Bait line's success, whereas Tlusty hasn't been a key component to just about anything. (I think I'm just posting at this point to come up with a good name for that line)

 

[the halleJOKEL]

ruutu looked like garbage in the top 6 every time he has been put in that position this year

congratulations, he can victimize fringe AHLers and bottom pairing defensemen. he was getting manhandled when he was anywhere else in the lineup. tlusty still does the little things out there even if he isnt scoring. his feet arent made of lead and he actually has good enough hands to hang with the rest of the top 6.

 

[What the Faulk]

Pretty much the only thing I agree with is that Ruutu is slower than Tlusty. That much is obvious.

If they're both "plugs", one is on the 4th line and one is on the 1st line. The latter seems a problem, but the former is the one who catches all the ire. I'm not advocating a swap, but they're both fringe 3rd liners right now. Just doesn't make sense why Gerbe wastes away on that ineffective 3rd line while Tlusty gets all the chances next to Semin/Staal.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If they're both "plugs", one is on the 4th line and one is on the 1st line. The latter seems a problem, but the former is the one who catches all the ire.

This is a problem only if you ignore the context that Ruutu used to be a top-6 player, and is paid like a top-6 player, and that Tlusty is in that position only because Ruutu failed to be that player.

Just doesn't make sense why Gerbe wastes away on that ineffective 3rd line while Tlusty gets all the chances next to Semin/Staal.

Gerbe was on the first line at the end of last night's game.