GDT: PANTHERS at KINGS 2/18/17 7 p.m. PT; FS-W, FS-F, NHL.TV

[deeshamrock]

Why do people claim things like "uninspired play" etc just because they lose? The skaters worked their ***** off out there tonight. Its a 3-2 league. Crappy goaltending is a killer.[/QUOTE]

Disagree on the skaters working their backsides off, I didn't see that. Some shifts were good but there was ,as has been the case for most of the last 3 seasons, not any consistency . Kings down 3-2 and put up 5 shots thru the first 15 minutes of the 3rd? They should have and could have been better.

Last night ,Calgary in the same position, down by 1 going into the 3rd. Difference is they actually wanted to tie the game, and worked for it, putting up 18 shots on goal in the 3rd period and getting the game tying goal. They blew a chance to get 2 by losing in OT but they dominated every shift in the 3rd period and were desperate for that goal. THey earned 1 critical point.
The Kings never showed that .

Crappy goaltending is a killer for any team but so is a CRAPPY system and a cranky coach whose antiquated system has cost this team overall and playoff success for 2 prior years and this year. A coach who went on a rant after the prior loss and threw his goalie under the bus. Employing bully tactics doesn't work. That doesn't go over well in a locker room, players do not like that being done to a teammate. Esp when that goalie has saved their bacon this year, getting them 2 pts in games where the team in front of him was awful. Sutter have looked in the mirror and criticized himself and his crappy system. But his ego doesn't allow for that. It's never him, always the player(s). Refuses to see the league has changed, and he is a biggest part of the problem and has been for the last 2 and 1/ seasons.

Crappy decision making in too many area by the GM over the last 2 and 1/2 seasons, a GM who tends to get lost in the past and refuses to part ways with 'those guys that got us there' that was 5 yrs ago. The redundancy that is lewis, Clifford, Nolan, King and co should been moved to bring in fresh blood. Worst decision was giving Sutter a new contract when he lost this team 2 yrs ago.
Kopi's contract is brutal. Could he have traded him in 2015 with 1 yr left and gotten a top center, prospect and #1 pick? Perhaps. But I think he thought that Kopitar would move down in salary and term. That was his mistake, Kopi had no intention of budging. So he lives with a great 2 way player who into his 30's should get 2 to 3 good years, 20 g, 55 pts. Doesn't merit that 10M , esp since the CAP won't go up to allow for other big contracts, like DD's. That ship has sailed.

Quick is not a miracle worker. His GAA over that last 4 years, prior to this one, is 2.24. The Kings average gpg over the last 5 is 2.5. Goaltending is not the problem , offense and increasing the goal scoring is. And that is on the shoulders of SUtter and Lombardi for refusing to see that the NHL has evolved into a faster league and that big heavy game they depend on can't catch up. Scoring two goals a game on most nights is going to get you nowhere, treading quicksand to be a wildcard team and depending on other teams losing to gain footholds. how many rabbits did you expect Quick to pull out of a hat this year when the team in front of him, historically, doesn't score enough goals to cover is GAA?

Because of DL and DS, I didn't have the Kings as a playoff team. The only reason they are still in a wildcard race is because some of the Central teams struggled for the first part of the season and because Carter is having a career year. His success is not tied to any system he's ever played in. I've seen every game he's played since the AHL and 5 NHL coaches. He skates ,shoots and scores, no matter who the coach. His 9 GWG and those 18 pts, are the only reason this team isn't in last place in a weak division.
'
Budaj is a backup, period. DL knew that in Oct when Quick went down. Zatkoff is not adequate support. He had 35 NHL games under this belt when the Kings got him. That's not even close to a barometer for success. Overplaying Budaj was not a good answer. Was the cost to get a better backup when QUick went down too high? Maybe or maybe it was only to high for DL. We'll never know. But once he made the decision not to upgrade, the season was done.

Budaj is a good backup whose played well this year and will earn a good contract as a backup for some team next year. Given how the coach doesn't like him and threw him under the bus, stands to reason he'll sign elsewhere. And I don't blame him. If you are a fan of this game , you'll understand how that locker room and temp within it affects games and decisions. It's the reason Therrein was let go. Budaj isn't the problem, he's done everything within what he is capable of to give this team a chance on most nights. It's not his fault the GM and coach have made critical errors and the team in front of him are stuck in system that doesn't work and doesn't produce enough offense to win.

 

[deeshamrock]

So it's going to come down to us vs. Calgary, mano-a-mano. One team makes the playoffs, the other team gets sent to the dungeon.

not really. Preds are tied with the Flames. Preds are playing better than I thought they would , given they lost Weber. And should have never traded jones. Johanson is a good center but not the legit #1 and a leader, a game breaker. Maybe they realize that and try for Duchene.

Flames = Elliott has not worked out for them , Johnson's okay but not the answer and both are on expiring deals. Rumor over the last 10 days or so that they are talking to the Pens about Fleury . Fleury would be an upgrade. If the Flames get better goaltending, for that last 6 weeks of the year, that would be a big difference.

Canucks two points back , who I've been trying to write off for 2 months but Miller has played great. He's the reason on a lot of nights they get 2, like last night, Flames threw 18 shots at him in the 3rd, he's the only reason that game didn't end 3-1 in regulation. Horvat has really taken a big step forward and has been really good for them , as have some of the support cast. I still don't see them making the playoffs, however, they are playing good enough to beat teams that are in the running and take away 2 pts from that team, so that does affect the Kings.

 

[bob77]

Good post Dee. I would tend to look at one aspect differently. I always refer to it as a team's ability to play like they are losing. The Kings do not take enough risks in trying to tie the game up in the third. Almost ALL of the players are still cautious about their defensive responsibility, even though we are losing. Add to that the other teams go into prevent mode with the lead, and you get 5 shots. I blame coaching for all of this. As a team, you need to have an organized concept about how, when, and where players should be taking these risks to catch up. Who cares if you lose by 1 or 10? It's almost like DS realizes there's another game tomorrow and the next day and the next day, etc., and he doesn't want the team to veer too far from the system and develop bad habits. Calgary scraps their main system and gets after it, and plays like they are losing. It's almost funny to me when DS says afterward we were chasing the game after not being in the lead. We are still in system mode!!!! We are not chasing anything. Players are worried if they take chances and risks, DS will have them up on the screen during video sessions explaining why and where they failed the system. You might even get a seat in the press box. As a player you can't say, "But coach, we were losing!!"

 

[yankeeking]

The third goal deflated the team and the crowd for the rest of the game , the dman had the guy tied up and budaj was off his line again on the right post by inches for about the 5th time in the last few games, last game could have been rust but this time if he hugs the pole no goal , he couldn't.t cut to the middle he was engaged and had only the shot he took, very very frustrating and I know they are professionals but damn those kind of goals ........

 

[deeshamrock]

Good post Dee. I would tend to look at one aspect differently. I always refer to it as a team's ability to play like they are losing. The Kings do not take enough risks in trying to tie the game up in the third. Almost ALL of the players are still cautious about their defensive responsibility, even though we are losing. Add to that the other teams go into prevent mode with the lead, and you get 5 shots. I blame coaching for all of this. As a team, you need to have an organized concept about how, when, and where players should be taking these risks to catch up. Who cares if you lose by 1 or 10? It's almost like DS realizes there's another game tomorrow and the next day and the next day, etc., and he doesn't want the team to veer too far from the system and develop bad habits. Calgary scraps their main system and gets after it, and plays like they are losing. It's almost funny to me when DS says afterward we were chasing the game after not being in the lead. We are still in system mode!!!! We are not chasing anything. Players are worried if they take chances and risks, DS will have them up on the screen during video sessions explaining why and where they failed the system. You might even get a seat in the press box. As a player you can't say, "But coach, we were losing!!"

Well said.

and that is exactly why his ego has placed this team where they are. That his system doesn't work on most nights and good coaches, adapt. Playing to win and playing not to lose are 2 different philosophy's. If he can't trust his seasoning veterans, the core of this team, esp scoring forwards who have 10 yrs plus in this league (TP AND TT notwithstanding) to go and win games in the 3rd, that they are not green rookies who will 'develop bad habits' then he deserves to fail. And if his team knows he feels like that, they will fail, esp when he criticizes them for it. It comes down to his ego and the fact he feels he is never wrong and won't adjust.

And that stagnant attitude, has lost the locker room. I really don't think they have wanted to 'play for him' for the last 2 yrs prior to this one.

 

[LAKings88]

Kings need a win tonight. They need to prove that they can beat the Pac Teams.

FLA and ARI should have been wins.

I don't blame goaltending alone but it is inconsistent and that is hard to play in front of.

LAs biggest issue is Kopi/Gaborik.Their offense is non existent this year.

Every team is gonna bear down now. It's not gonna be easy for the Kings.

This team reminds me of the 15 year's. Probably will miss the playoffs by a few points.

Will still be in it by the deadline so DL won't sell/trim some of the fat.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Nick Shore out there for the last minute of the game. Name me another NHL coach that will throw out the 4th line center for the last minute of the game down by a goal. This is a guy who has 8 goals in 158 games, a 6.6% shooting percentage, averaging 17 seconds of PP time a game so the coach has no confidence in his offense when on the man advantage, 60 shots in 56 games, -12 for the career so not stellar defensively either, no goals since January 9th-yet this is the center thrown out for the last minute of the game. Sutter's Stiff's continue to drag this team down, the coach is clearly in love with the grinders and tries to get back at Kopitar and the other "better" Kings players by rewarding ice time to players that cannot create offense at the NHL level because they are Stiff's. They were stiffs, they are stiffs and they will be stiffs. I've seen enough of Sutter and his antics that don't work, it's time for him to be fired.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Nick Shore out there for the last minute of the game. Name me another NHL coach that will throw out the 4th line center for the last minute of the game down by a goal.

Yep, was thinking the same thing when I saw Shore out there once Budaj was pulled....then I followed it up with a "FU SUTTER".

 

[Omni Owl]

Nick Shore out there for the last minute of the game. Name me another NHL coach that will throw out the 4th line center for the last minute of the game down by a goal. This is a guy who has 8 goals in 158 games, a 6.6% shooting percentage, averaging 17 seconds of PP time a game so the coach has no confidence in his offense when on the man advantage, 60 shots in 56 games, -12 for the career so not stellar defensively either, no goals since January 9th-yet this is the center thrown out for the last minute of the game. Sutter's Stiff's continue to drag this team down, the coach is clearly in love with the grinders and tries to get back at Kopitar and the other "better" Kings players by rewarding ice time to players that cannot create offense at the NHL level because they are Stiff's. They were stiffs, they are stiffs and they will be stiffs. I've seen enough of Sutter and his antics that don't work, it's time for him to be fired.

Exactly. Sutter NEEDS to go at this point. I'm sick of him and the players on the team seem sick of him. He should have been canned the moment Julien became available. Look at what Montreal did, that takes balls to go out and fire your coach when a better one becomes available. St. Louis axed Hitch and they're playing much better. Its such an obvious move to me, but DL just keeps hanging on to the past and this team will once again suffer because of it. Some of Sutter's moves are baffling to me, he seems to make them because he's the "smartest man in the room". No Sutter, you're just outdated and delusional.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Exactly. Sutter NEEDS to go at this point. I'm sick of him and the players on the team seem sick of him. He should have been canned the moment Julien became available. Look at what Montreal did, that takes balls to go out and fire your coach when a better one becomes available. St. Louis axed Hitch and they're playing much better. Its such an obvious move to me, but DL just keeps hanging on to the past and this team will once again suffer because of it. Some of Sutter's moves are baffling to me, he seems to make them because he's the "smartest man in the room". No Sutter, you're just outdated and delusional.

It's not even worth discussing, no chance in hell that Lombardi fires Sutter. He'll let him walk in the off-season, but that's the best your gonna get.

 

[LAKings88]

I'm not sure this team can play any different style.

They outhit, outshoot, out possession, out metric most teams. They just can't execute.

I just don't think they are fast enough to free wheel.

Even if you replace Sutter, is Stevens gonna be much different? Stothers?

I get an argument for stagnation, but I still think Sutter knows this team and hockey better than any of us.

I've been pissed at DL since Lucic. Even with that trade, they had a record setting season which shows what I know. I still don't know how they tanked so hard that last month after clinching a spot.

I think they would have more points with Quick in net this year.

LAs core is set and taking up the majority of cap space. This era of team won't change much unless some big on ice personnel changes are made. LA has little cap room that will be filled by resigning guys already on the team. Unless Doughty or Carter are moved for two or three solid cost controled players each, it will remain the same. Those are impactful moves. Shift altering moves. Or you keep your HOFers and keep supplementing cheap fillers/rookies.

Martinez or Muzzin can be moved for a forward after the expansion draft which might be needed at this point.

I think the window is still open with this core, but they are no longer young and up and comers. Gotta do it with what you got.

 

[rajuabju]

Nick Shore out there for the last minute of the game. Name me another NHL coach that will throw out the 4th line center for the last minute of the game down by a goal. This is a guy who has 8 goals in 158 games, a 6.6% shooting percentage, averaging 17 seconds of PP time a game so the coach has no confidence in his offense when on the man advantage, 60 shots in 56 games, -12 for the career so not stellar defensively either, no goals since January 9th-yet this is the center thrown out for the last minute of the game. Sutter's Stiff's continue to drag this team down, the coach is clearly in love with the grinders and tries to get back at Kopitar and the other "better" Kings players by rewarding ice time to players that cannot create offense at the NHL level because they are Stiff's. They were stiffs, they are stiffs and they will be stiffs. I've seen enough of Sutter and his antics that don't work, it's time for him to be fired.

I had the same exact thought as well. When I saw Shore out I just couldnt believe it.

Not that Kopiter and Gaborik have been lighting the lamp, but you still need to trust in your best players and put them out there.

 

[Kingkopitar]

Crazy idea . How about putting Carter on wing with kopitar .dont eat me alive

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Crazy idea . How about putting Carter on wing with kopitar .dont eat me alive

I think a lot of people suggested that earlier in the year but the reality is we don't have the center depth for that right now.

Plus especially tonight it's Kopi/Carter versus Getzlaf/Kesler and giving one of those guys Dowd all night would be bad news.

 

[Kingkopitar]

I think a lot of people suggested that earlier in the year but the reality is we don't have the center depth for that right now.

Plus especially tonight it's Kopi/Carter versus Getzlaf/Kesler and giving one of those guys Dowd all night would be bad news.

Yeah , it seems like the only chemistry Kopitar has had with anyone is Carter during overtime. Kopitar has had zero chemistry with his linemates this year .

 

[deeshamrock]

I'm not sure this team can play any different style.

They outhit, outshoot, out possession, out metric most teams. They just can't execute.

I just don't think they are fast enough to free wheel.

Even if you replace Sutter, is Stevens gonna be much different? Stothers?

I get an argument for stagnation, but I still think Sutter knows this team and hockey better than any of us.

I've been pissed at DL since Lucic. Even with that trade, they had a record setting season which shows what I know. I still don't know how they tanked so hard that last month after clinching a spot.

I think they would have more points with Quick in net this year.

LAs core is set and taking up the majority of cap space. This era of team won't change much unless some big on ice personnel changes are made. LA has little cap room that will be filled by resigning guys already on the team. Unless Doughty or Carter are moved for two or three solid cost controled players each, it will remain the same. Those are impactful moves. Shift altering moves. Or you keep your HOFers and keep supplementing cheap fillers/rookies.

Martinez or Muzzin can be moved for a forward after the expansion draft which might be needed at this point.

I think the window is still open with this core, but they are no longer young and up and comers. Gotta do it with what you got.

Having seen Stevens system for the 3 plus years here in Phlly, his system was different and more effective. Two of those 3 years, the 2 full seasons, his teams were top 6 in scoring in the nHL. They were still defensively responsible but not to the stifling stagnant air that is Sutter's system. Granted, some of that is due to the forwards groups involved . I liked Stevens, the players loved playing for him and it showed, he as a players coach. His problem was he was a bit too young and the lack of experience cost him his job but I feel that he was fired too soon because as soon as Chris 'I fracture every locker room I've every played in' Pronger arrived summer of 2009 , everything changed. The division Pronger caused in that room, affected the team's play and Stevens was the fodder.
I think Stevens is a smart man and has learned from that experience as well as his years in LA. He's not Sutter.

That 'record setting ' season was built on hollow points and they didn't 'tank', they lost because they weren't good enough, period. I saw every game and most of those wins were 1 goal wins where they were either tied or losing in the 3rd period and played a fire drill style in the last part of the period to tie or get the go ahead. That's treading quicksand. Seldom were the wins where the established a 3-1 lead and dominated in the 3rd, locking it down. That's why they lost, they didn't tank, they just weren't good enough.
DL saw that and coupled with the year prior, should have realized the handwriting on the wall. He didn't and they are paying the price for it.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings are exhibiting the symptoms of a team that needs a coaching change, but the problem is you actually have to have a good option to replace the coach with.

Sutter is a great coach. Many of the criticisms being thrown at him are off base.

Sutter's success as a coach hinges on his ability to motivate and get the most out of players at the right time. It seems that this style, while effective, has an expiration date.

 

[Basilisk]

Dammit, we need Quick!!! Where the hell is he?!

 

[LAKings88]

Having seen Stevens system for the 3 plus years here in Phlly, his system was different and more effective. Two of those 3 years, the 2 full seasons, his teams were top 6 in scoring in the nHL. They were still defensively responsible but not to the stifling stagnant air that is Sutter's system. Granted, some of that is due to the forwards groups involved . I liked Stevens, the players loved playing for him and it showed, he as a players coach. His problem was he was a bit too young and the lack of experience cost him his job but I feel that he was fired too soon because as soon as Chris 'I fracture every locker room I've every played in' Pronger arrived summer of 2009 , everything changed. The division Pronger caused in that room, affected the team's play and Stevens was the fodder.
I think Stevens is a smart man and has learned from that experience as well as his years in LA. He's not Sutter.

That 'record setting ' season was built on hollow points and they didn't 'tank', they lost because they weren't good enough, period. I saw every game and most of those wins were 1 goal wins where they were either tied or losing in the 3rd period and played a fire drill style in the last part of the period to tie or get the go ahead. That's treading quicksand. Seldom were the wins where the established a 3-1 lead and dominated in the 3rd, locking it down. That's why they lost, they didn't tank, they just weren't good enough.
DL saw that and coupled with the year prior, should have realized the handwriting on the wall. He didn't and they are paying the price for it.

Mostly they lost due to Amarts injury and and a slow defense. I still think they peaked to soon and coasted after clinching.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings are exhibiting the symptoms of a team that needs a coaching change, but the problem is you actually have to have a good option to replace the coach with.

Sutter is a great coach. Many of the criticisms being thrown at him are off base.

Sutter's success as a coach hinges on his ability to motivate and get the most out of players at the right time. It seems that this style, while effective, has an expiration date.

Very much agree. EVen the best coaches--of which sutter is one--have a shelf life.

 

[Little Psycho]

The standings are close. I don't think we make it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So glad I missed yet another ****** Kings game. The Pearson goal was nice. That's probably the only positive to takeaway from the loss. He's one of the few bright spots on this crappy team.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah the pearson goal was gorgeous. Time stopped for him haha