Post-Game Talk: PANIC GDT: Flyers at Kings | December 31, 2022 | 4:00 PM Real Time

[blackjackmulligan]

Effort and urgency look the same. Only difference is that dmen aren't playing on an island.

We disagree. Looks much better to me.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

So, as usual, none of you watched the game?

Risto had a great sequence on the PK that sealed the win, 3 blocked shots, a hit on Kopitar that separated him from the puck, basically stymied the Kings singlehandedly while Cates scored the game winner.

They only beat the hottest team in the NHL (6-0-1) on their home ice.

Are they a good team? Nah. But they're showing flashes and playing more consistently. And are becoming a team with structure which is a better environment to add talented prospects.

And yes, Tippett, the player Fletcher was snookered into taking, has 11 goals in 31 games. He's not going to win a hockey IQ test, but he's not "dumb and dumber". Has a great skill set, as he gets experience and confidence, could become a top six winger. It's hard to find his combination of strength, speed, puck handling and a plus wrist shot. Certainly worth a little patience.

Oh f*** off with your 'none of you watched the game' bullshit. You're the one on here who spews useless stats left, right and center and you've openly admitted to not watching games because 'stats tell the story.' You're a f***ing troll. Nothing more than, nothing less than.

 

[kudymen]

Effort and urgency look the same. Only difference is that dmen aren't playing on an island.

Reminds me of that time when "PP looked visually better"

 

[Adam Warlock]

Beating a weak SJ team in OT and then ambushing the Kings doesn’t make the Flyers a PO team. It’s nice to see that they are competitive which they weren’t last year but the roster shows that the club sucks. That’s on Fletcher and is grounds for immediate dismissal. He’s had four seasons and the Flyers are worse than when he took over.

I agree 100%. But do you really see them firing chuck after a winning road trip?

And im sure some will say "whats the big deal? They can just wait until the offseason!".

I dont think they can. You cant let him oversee the deadline. You need a new GM to.

If they fired him mid last season... we prob wouldve gotten a couple picks for Risto...instead he gave him an awful extension. They cant afford another deadline like that.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

if you NEED to be pessimistic all year go right ahead

I'll continue to watch TK, Tippet, Frost, TDA, Sanheim, York, Ersson etc., improve .....

You´re so limited in your vision. Its really stunning!

Now we all know its just a trolling job, so i lost lifetime for nothing!

Thx

 

[renberg]

I can see them moving Fletcher out of the GM role now. Let him keep the other titles but neuter him on personnel decisions.
His record in transactions is worse than bad. A creative GM would be able to take advantage of the Flyers situation between now and the TDL. Fletcher has never shown the ability to do that in his career.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

This rudderless team will continue to just circle the drain. Non elite players in the core will keep us firmly entrenched in either missing playoffs, or barely sneaking in only to lose first round. And never getting a shot at a near generational talent who could be the centre piece of a 20 yr window of contention. Ask Pitts how the past 17 yrs have been to be a fan

This team will never make the playoffs with Ellis, Hayes, Risto on the books! Maybe add Couts (injuries) and atkinson (injury) to that trio!

They are too expensive and the flyers arent able to play player with ELC´s in the NHL cause they want more VETERAN players.

They will SUCK for the next 4 YEARS!

I would bet my child on that!

 

[04hockey]

You´re so limited in your vision. Its really stunning!

Now we all know its just a trolling job, so i lost lifetime for nothing!

Thx

hey, I like how the guys are putting out for this coach, they're trying.....

to me that's an absolute positive.....that's my vision

 

[flyersnorth]

Let him keep the other titles but neuter him on personnel decisions.

No.

That’s one of the reasons we’re in this position today - rewarding failure.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

hey, I like how the guys are putting out for this coach, they're trying.....

to me that's an absolute positive.....that's my vision

You celebrating a win in a battle while loosing 10 years of war!

 

[deadhead]

The younger players are the ones causing the wins that are giving y'all heartburn.
And that's a good sign, as Edmonton shows, you can land a generational player, but if you don't build a team, you'll just spin your wheels for a decade.

Torts is doing exactly what I expected, identifying the core young players and challenging and developing them.
The problem is if the FO sees this team improve and fool themselves into thinking it can be quickly turned around.
Which is why CBJ eventually imploded, short-term moves on top of a turnaround engineered by Torts.

What's needed is a commitment at the top to take a 3-5 year view, not tank for Bedard, even if you're bottom 3 you have a best a 20% chance - and what if you miss? Then you suck forever! Rather, just focus on 2025, identify the players you'll want around in three years, and move out the rest patiently, avoiding spending assets to do so and try to maximize value for them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The younger players are the ones causing the wins that are giving y'all heartburn.
And that's a good sign, as Edmonton shows, you can land a generational player, but if you don't build a team, you'll just spin your wheels for a decade.

Torts is doing exactly what I expected, identifying the core young players and challenging and developing them.
The problem is if the FO sees this team improve and fool themselves into thinking it can be quickly turned around.
Which is why CBJ eventually imploded, short-term moves on top of a turnaround engineered by Torts.

What's needed is a commitment at the top to take a 3-5 year view, not tank for Bedard, even if you're bottom 3 you have a best a 20% chance - and what if you miss? Then you suck forever! Rather, just focus on 2025, identify the players you'll want around in three years, and move out the rest patiently, avoiding spending assets to do so and try to maximize value for them.

Wait I thought what you expected was identifying the veterans to keep? Weird how this narrative of what you expected just constantly shifts and isn't at all what you insisted would happen before the season.

Also weird how these guys causing wind are all Hextall guys too. You know, the dude you blame for the team being bad so you can absolve Fletcher of blame.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The younger players are the ones causing the wins that are giving y'all heartburn.
And that's a good sign, as Edmonton shows, you can land a generational player, but if you don't build a team, you'll just spin your wheels for a decade.

Torts is doing exactly what I expected, identifying the core young players and challenging and developing them.
The problem is if the FO sees this team improve and fool themselves into thinking it can be quickly turned around.
Which is why CBJ eventually imploded, short-term moves on top of a turnaround engineered by Torts.

What's needed is a commitment at the top to take a 3-5 year view, not tank for Bedard, even if you're bottom 3 you have a best a 20% chance - and what if you miss? Then you suck forever! Rather, just focus on 2025, identify the players you'll want around in three years, and move out the rest patiently, avoiding spending assets to do so and try to maximize value for them.

really? so they were never supposed to "go" for it at some point?

What did Torts really do there? playoffs several times?

This core of young players is near the bottom of pretty much every other teams young core players. Why don't you ever account for that?

Does the Columbus GM get any credit for the turnaround?

 

[deadhead]

I haven't absolved Fletcher of anything, I just don't obsess on him like some here.
I want to clear the village of all its idiots, not just the most visible one.

They're mostly Hextall guys b/c it's now 8 years since his first draft and 4 years since his last draft.
It takes that long for most NHL players to arrive. Come back in 2 years and you may see Andrae, Attard, Foerster, Gauthier, Desnoyers.
Of course, York and TDA are Fletcher's. As is Tippett.

That G trade ain't looking so bad, Florida may not turn it around next season (1st rd, but too good to probably fall to the bottom ten), Tippett is heading toward a 20+ goal season (1.90 pp/60, G is at a 1.89 pace) at 23 with upside left.

 

[deadhead]

really? so they were never supposed to "go" for it at some point?

What did Torts really do there? playoffs several times?

This core of young players is near the bottom of pretty much every other teams young core players. Why don't you ever account for that?

Torts turned CBJ around in one year, then the GM traded for Panarin with 2 years left on his deal, knowing he planned to leave, and doubled down at the 2019 TDL, trading for Duchene et al, then watched Panarin, Duchene, Bob leave in FA.

This is what I mean by not taking a longer view, instead of trying to rush things, the GM could have built gradually around Tort's success, instead he let Karlsson go to Vegas in the ED b/c he wanted to maintain a PO team by protecting high priced veterans.

The core of young players remains to be evaluated, that's what this season is about, the last two years were a clusterf--, and that's how bad teams stay bad, young players struggle in a chaotic environment, then go to other teams where they blossom.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Torts turned CBJ around in one year, then the GM traded for Panarin with 2 years left on his deal, knowing he planned to leave, and doubled down at the 2019 TDL, trading for Duchene et al, then watched Panarin, Duchene, Bob leave in FA.

This is what I mean by not taking a longer view, instead of trying to rush things, the GM could have built gradually around Tort's success, instead he let Karlsson go to Vegas in the ED b/c he wanted to maintain a PO team by protecting high priced veterans.

The core of young players remains to be evaluated, that's what this season is about, the last two years were a clusterf--, and that's how bad teams stay bad, young players struggle in a chaotic environment, then go to other teams where they blossom.

The GM did his job it seems like to me. Is it possible the GM also knew Torts shelf life was coming to an end and he needed t make his move now? He gave Torts the players. Torts didnt get far with them.

Well the same GM during these last 2 years is still in place.

 

[deadhead]

The GM did his job it seems like to me. Is it possible the GM also knew Torts shelf life was coming to an end and he needed t make his move now? He gave Torts the players. Torts didnt get far with them.

Well the same GM during these last 2 years is still in place.

And doing a Fletcher level job.

 

[Hanover Fist]

I haven't absolved Fletcher of anything, I just don't obsess on him like some here.
I want to clear the village of all its idiots, not just the most visible one.

They're mostly Hextall guys b/c it's now 8 years since his first draft and 4 years since his last draft.
It takes that long for most NHL players to arrive. Come back in 2 years and you may see Andrae, Attard, Foerster, Gauthier, Desnoyers.
Of course, York and TDA are Fletcher's. As is Tippett.

That G trade ain't looking so bad, Florida may not turn it around next season (1st rd, but too good to probably fall to the bottom ten), Tippett is heading toward a 20+ goal season (1.90 pp/60, G is at a 1.89 pace) at 23 with upside left.

Still going with the old 2 years away gimmick

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

“I have absolved Fletcher of anything, now watch as I absolve Fletcher.”

I understand why you don’t want to talk about Fletcher anymore though, I wouldn’t want people to talk about a topic that I was grossly wrong about and his very existence being mentioned continuously brings that fact to light.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

And doing a Fletcher level job.

you are clearly blind at this point

 

[deadhead]

CBJ started rebuilding 3 years ago,and instead of sticking with the plan, signed JG and Gudbranson for a playoff run, and are now tied with Anaheim with the second worst record - and it wasn't a tank by design.
Their eight top scorers, one is 33, 30, and two are 29.

Yeah, I'd say he's as bad as Fletcher, but may turn out to be luckier (accidentally collapse the team a year with a loaded draft).

 

[Magua]

I don't think Columbus expected to lose Werenski and Voracek and Texier for the entire year. For someone who complains about Flyers missing lineup pieces, those are big deals. Columbus is a similar performing team to the Flyers, just without Carter Hart as a cure all.

I'm not sure what sort of gotcha this is. They had 3 1st round picks (including 5th overall) in 2021, and a 6th overall in 2022. Columbus isn't tanking by design this season, but it's also ignoring context to say they haven't been purposefully rebuilding recently while the Flyers tried to compete and trade picks. They will add Jiricek, Svozil, Mateychuk soon. That's a heckuva defense. They could easily add Fantilli or Carlsson too, with how their season is going. Gaudreau is still an elite piece. The Flyers will be no closer to a turnaround.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think Columbus expected to lose Werenski and Voracek and Texier for the entire year. For someone who complains about Flyers missing lineup pieces, those are big deals. Columbus is a similar performing team to the Flyers, just without Carter Hart as a cure all.

I'm not sure what sort of gotcha this is. They had 3 1st round picks (including 5th overall) in 2021, and a 6th overall in 2022. Columbus isn't tanking by design this season, but it's also ignoring context to say they haven't been purposefully rebuilding recently while the Flyers tried to compete and trade picks. They will add Jiricek, Svozil, Mateychuk soon. That's a heckuva defense. They could easily add Fantilli or Carlsson too, with how their season is going. Gaudreau is still an elite piece. The Flyers will be no closer to a turnaround.

He jumped the gun by about two years, the same thing the Flyers did in 2018.
What kills most rebuilds is a lack of patience, thus JG (29) and Gudbrunson (31).
And they traded for and are paying underachiever Laine $8.7M for 3 more years.
Meanwhile, the defense is paper thin and the goalies are awful.
You don't like Risto's contract, how about 4 more ears of Merzlikins at $5.4M a year? And no goalie prospects.

By the time their top kids are ready to contribute, their expensive veterans will be in their 30s and on their downside.

Werenski is the big loss, Voracek had fallen off the last two seasons, they may be better off with him on LTIR than continuing to decline.

 

[renberg]

Would swapping Hayes for Laine be a doable deal? The dollars are close over the whole contracts. Columbus seems to be finished with Laine and Torts has had some experience with him.

 

[deadhead]

Would swapping Hayes for Laine be a doable deal? The dollars are close over the whole contracts. Columbus seems to be finished with Laine and Torts has had some experience with him.

I think Torts would rather have a bag of used pucks than Laine. He's a younger, more talented but more expensive version of Hayes.