Confirmed with Link: Palms and Zajac traded to Isles for 2021 1st, AJ Greer, Mason Jobst, 2022 conditional 4th

[Guttersniped]

We're talking about a guy that played over 1,000 games with this franchise and been nothing but class through some brutal years, as well as a local player in Palmieri that gave us 5+ great seasons at a really good value compared to what we gave up to get him and paid him on his contract. Both left on great terms. This isn't Hall or Parise we're talking about. The Islanders also have Greene, who played over 900 games for this franchise and served as captain.

JFC the overreaction to this quote is insane. "Loser's mentality?!?!?" GTFO with that.

I'll be happy for these players if they win the Cup. Hopefully our scouting staff makes a great pick regardless of where it winds up. Having the higher pick guarantees absolutely nothing.

I’m personally rooting for the Islanders to lose every single game now that we have their pick but I don’t begrudge anyone actually rooting for them. But that would be a weird thing for Fitz to say publicly.

And I of course would be thrilled for our three dudes if they hoisted the Cup, it would have enormously more meaning for me to see that happen for Zajac and Greene (and even Palms) them it did when Coleman won. Coleman had a shorter run here and I have less sentimental attachment with him (less then some others on the board did.)

Fitz didn’t say go make it the 31st pick, or whatever. (I can’t believe I’m continuing this “debate”.) He didn’t say he wished he could watch them not touch Prince of Wales Trophy. Zajac is going to be 36 in May, Fitz was saying I hope he (and Palms too but we know who the comment really is about) fulfills the lifelong dream of every NHL player.

And some people flip out over two sentences clearly expressing that sentiment. Because freaking out over two sentences is what people do best on the internet.

 

[Unknown Caller]

They are hardly burning assets and cap space. Assets: They gave up a 1st (which we hope is the worst possible pick, right?), a 4th (we also hope this is the worst possible), and 2 complete scrubs. Cap Space: They are only paying 50% and the 2 contracts expire end of the season.

They are hardly going "All in".... they did not give up much at all.

They have given up their first round pick last year, their second round pick last year, their first round pick this year, their second round pick this year, and either their third round pick or fourth round pick this year. That's all in.

In exchange, they got a 37 year old Andy Greene, a 36 year old Travis Zajac, Kyle Palmieri on an expiring contract and J.G. Pageau.

They have 30 year old Anders Lee signed through 2026 at $7mm aav, 29 year old Brock Nelson signed through 2025 at $6mm aav, 30 year old Jordan Eberle signed through 2024 at $5.5mm aav, 31 year old Josh Bailey signed through 2024 at $5mm aav, and 28 year old J.G. Pageau signed through 2026 at $5mm aav, not to mention other key players on their roster who are all older and on inflated salaries.

All of this just to have a team built with a 5% chance to win a cup. This is atrocious roster management and the end result is a 2015 Devils-like roster with a decade long rebuild. You can see it coming from a mile away. Like I said, we lived this.

 

[billingtons ghost]

First things first is that it's indeed a gut-punch to think of Travis in a different jersey. That part sucks, no two ways about it, and it also sucks that things didn't work out better with Palms on the roster because he was a very easy guy to cheer for.

That said, I'm not sure what else the team was supposed to do: rebuilding clubs shouldn't just be holding onto pending UFAs in most situations and then allowing them to walk for nothing.

I think with some of the reactions here, though, too many people are conflating "losing" with "rebuilding". The Devils have been losing for the most part since the 2012 Cup run, but they've only really been rebuilding since the last year or so.

Saying "I'm tired of just getting picks!" doesn't match up with history: if anything, from 2013-2019 or so the Devils were mostly giving picks up to get NHL-ready players in the hopes of building a core around Hall/Schneider/Palms/etc. Yes, they held onto their 1st rounders, which was smart, but so many 2nds and 3rds got traded away that overall organizational depth, a problem since the end of Lou's tenure as GM, was really hurting. And then age made Cory's body fall apart, Hall had knee surgery, and it became clear that, nope, that core was never going to win anything, experiment failed.

The first "this much more resembles a rebuild" draft we saw was the last one with Shero, 2019, and then Fitz wracked up as many picks as he could last year when it was clear that it was time to reverse course and rebuild for real. The good news is that the past couple of drafts and trade deadlines have given the Devils one of the deeper farm systems in the league, and this season has seen the foundation of a legitimate core emerging with Hughes, Smith, Mac, Severson, Bratt, and Nico on the way back. I fully anticipate next year will be another step in the rebuild, where hopefully another player or two will emerge as either in that main core while others will step up as strong role players (Kuokkanen? Zacha? They're at least looking the part this year). They're really not that far off, but it sucks waiting longer because we've been putting up with so much losing since 2013.

Fact is, trading for "NHL players" at the cost of organizational/farm system depth is what got us into the situation we're in right now. It's one thing if you can get a guy like prime Taylor Hall in a trade that doesn't gut your system, you do that every day of the week just like Shero did, but in a salary cap league you have to eat your vegetables first by drafting well and drafting often and focusing on player development. Then, you have a cost-controlled core that you can build around and add complementary pieces to. And if you do want a top level, potentially elite player to add to your team? Well, in that case you'll need cap space for a UFA signing, or prospects/draft picks for a trade, so wracking those up is a good thing in that case, too.

This is a well written, sensible post that lots of people are agreeing with. It's also wrong for a number of reasons, chiefly that at some point you need to win before you have to pay your players in the salary cap era.

For example, the Maple Leafs and Oilers windows to win are closing rapidly as evidenced by the fact that Nuge might not be around next year, and they have paperthin depth. Also, the Leafs have already had to jettison talent and make tough decisions.

I get that the trade is a good one, and a first is a coup, but I agree with the sentiment that Fitz needs to be active before both drafts this year to change picks and prospects into NHL talent next year.

Its great they locked up Nico, but you want to have at least a taste of playoffs under your belt before you dish out cash for all of the kids, and we are clearly a few years from the playoffs, especially if Murray and Kulikov walk.

It isn't an endless treadmill of picks. If Hughes is our savior, we can't wait until after he and Ty and bratt and mb29 and zacha and Sevs all get paid else we will never get there unless they suck really bad and we get superteamfriendly contracts.

 

[Guttersniped]

When have you ever seen any GM go that far to ‘show class’? It’s not as if the only two options were to say he wants them to win or he hopes they lose, he doesn’t have to comment on the Isles winning at all but hey he’s the GM (for now) if he’d rather prioritize sentimentality over a better pick vaya con dios. Obviously their players and friends on the team will root for them, they don’t care for the pick.

The issue is it’s not particularly media savvy to say that. Fans don’t want to hear the GM prioritize sentimentality when he just did a (justifiably) unsentimental trade and our whole plan is based on futures like the first round pick we traded for. Fans have no trouble rooting against their own team for pick slots, they really don’t want to hear the GM rooting for another team - and a quasi rival at that - against the pick in an exaggerated show of respect.

No, that’s an excellent point because if there’s any group of people who have historically been known to be keenly “media savvy” it’s NHL GMs.

I don’t want hear fans act like whiney babies over a two sentence comment but we all have our crosses to bear I guess.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not like there's going to be much else to remember him by.

His return on Coleman is the highlight of his tenure so far.

he turned Blake Coleman, pending UFA Wayne Simmonds, pending UFA Andy Greene, like 5 games of pending UFA Sami Vatanen, AAAA player Joey Anderson, 2021 5th round pick, pending UFA Kyle Palmieri, pending UFA Travis Zajac

into

Nolan Foote
1st round pick (Shak Mukhamadullin)
5th round pick 2021
2nd round pick 2021
3rd round pick 2020 (Nico Daws)
Janne Kuokkanen
Andreas Johnsson
Ryan Murray
1st round pick 2021
4th round pick 2022

yea, I know Johnsson has not worked out as we'd hoped....but he has done very well in trades

 

[Signal]

I know I'm in the minority but I'm more bummed to see Palms go. And although I HATE losing to them, I don't hate the Islanders as much as most of you guys do. In fact, I would say that the Rangers, Lighting and Canes take the honors in that category.

Anyway, my way of thinking is that if we are not in the playoffs, then I will certainly be wishing the boys and the Isles good luck in their run for a cup.

 

[billingtons ghost]

They have given up their first round pick last year, their second round pick last year, their first round pick this year, their second round pick this year, and either their third round pick or fourth round pick this year. That's all in.

In exchange, they got a 37 year old Andy Greene, a 36 year old Travis Zajac, Kyle Palmieri on an expiring contract and J.G. Pageau.

They have 30 year old Anders Lee signed through 2026 at $7mm aav, 29 year old Brock Nelson signed through 2025 at $6mm aav, 30 year old Jordan Eberle signed through 2024 at $5.5mm aav, 31 year old Josh Bailey signed through 2024 at $5mm aav, and 28 year old J.G. Pageau signed through 2026 at $5mm aav, not to mention other key players on their roster who are all older and on inflated salaries.

All of this just to have a team built with a 5% chance to win a cup. This is atrocious roster management and the end result is a 2015 Devils-like roster with a decade long rebuild. You can see it coming from a mile away. Like I said, we lived this.

Or, they win the cup, and you're wrong.

Everything in your post highlights the fact that either they make moves like this NOW or don't bother ever making moves, because Trotz won't stick around forever, and Barzal has only a few truly prime years left.

Posts like yours make me laugh because they seem to be saying, "I want roster management that gives me a team that gets knocked out in the first round every year.". It's goofy paper logic, like you can just add up talent like a ledger and that is what matters.

So, say the Isles keep all of those picks and use them. Who do they pick that will even push them over the hill to a cup? At pick 28? Next year?

They got a sniper and a guy who wins faceoffs and has a game winning it goal in the playoffs.

If you want a cup, and don't give up bellows or a roster player to get a top 6 guy and a #3 center it's a great frigging move.

 

[Lou is God]

Because he said he hopes for the two of them to win the cup this year.

If he just said that, he hoped they win a cup with Islanders, I don't think many would have had an issue with it, it's what he said before that: "I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick".....it's not a big deal but that part of the comment had me raise an eyebrow.

 

[billingtons ghost]

There’s no defending this dumb hissyfit people are having about Fitz wishing two great long time Devils players well. Another team will win the Stanley Cup. We aren’t in the playoffs. His words do not effect reality.

This guy gets it.

 

[Guttersniped]

They have given up their first round pick last year, their second round pick last year, their first round pick this year, their second round pick this year, and either their third round pick or fourth round pick this year. That's all in.

In exchange, they got a 37 year old Andy Greene, a 36 year old Travis Zajac, Kyle Palmieri on an expiring contract and J.G. Pageau.

They have 30 year old Anders Lee signed through 2026 at $7mm aav, 29 year old Brock Nelson signed through 2025 at $6mm aav, 30 year old Jordan Eberle signed through 2024 at $5.5mm aav, 31 year old Josh Bailey signed through 2024 at $5mm aav, and 28 year old J.G. Pageau signed through 2026 at $5mm aav, not to mention other key players on their roster who are all older and on inflated salaries.

All of this just to have a team built with a 5% chance to win a cup. This is atrocious roster management and the end result is a 2015 Devils-like roster with a decade long rebuild. You can see it coming from a mile away. Like I said, we lived this.

They got two 2nds from the brutal but I guess necessary Toews trade. Those will both presumably be very late 2nds but it gives them a 2nd in this draft and two 2nds in the next.

I think an extra 2nd in 2022 is actually a very valuable pick, that draft should be a goldmine for overagers considering how little some players played and spotty scouting will be. Those 2nds will help even if they weren’t worth losing Toews to get, he was a huge loss for them and a huge boon for the Avs. They definitely needed some extra picks coming in.

 

[Lou is God]

This guy gets it.

Except it's not a guy.

 

[Triumph]

If he just said that, he hoped they win a cup with Islanders, I don't think many would have had an issue with it, it's what he said before that: "I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick".....it's not a big deal but that part of the comment had me raise an eyebrow.

He has no control over that at this point beyond the trade he had just made, and also I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think fans on here would've immediately made the logical leap 'he wants the Islanders to win the Cup? Does that mean he wants our pick to be worse?'

 

[billingtons ghost]

Except it's not a guy.

I know. I didn't bother to read who posted it.. I typically agree with guttersniped anyway...

 

[Lou is God]

He has no control over that at this point beyond the trade he had just made, and also I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think fans on here would've immediately made the logical leap 'he wants the Islanders to win the Cup? Does that mean he wants our pick to be worse?'

I wouldn't have. Just saying. And again, not a big deal, it just raised an eyebrow but I'm fine with it either way.

 

[billingtons ghost]

too many retired numbers in the NHL.

takes too little to get it done.

Yeah, like score 134 points in a season, win four cups, etc..

 

[billingtons ghost]

And at the end of the day talent wins. Period. I don't care how old you are or how many times you played in a playoff game. If the guys across from you are more talented, odds are they're going to win.

Pretty much never true when it comes to the Cup.

Lots of 'most talented teams' and presidents trophy teams never get a sniff at the finals.

8 presidents trophy winners in last 36 seasons, and it's arguable whether a few of them were 'most talented'

 

[Guttersniped]

If he just said that, he hoped they win a cup with Islanders, I don't think many would have had an issue with it, it's what he said before that: "I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick".....it's not a big deal but that part of the comment had me raise an eyebrow.

But if he just said I hope they win the Cup what do you think happens to our pick? It still becomes the 32nd pick OMG JUST LIKE FITZ WANTED!

People love being wildly hyper-sensitive about every single thing and rephrasing this wouldn’t have saved Fitz from people freaking out over this random well-wishing to long time Devils players.

 

[theoptimist]

It's really the veterans

 

[Guttersniped]

Except it's not a guy.

Awww, I feel seen. You remembered!

 

[Blackjack]

I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick. I hope both of these gentlemen win the Cup. Also, I hope we whiff on the pick, I hope both of these gentlemen fill the net when we play them on the Island. I hope Nico doesn't return before the end of the season, then demands a trade. I hope Covid 19 mutates into strain that renders all of the existing vaccines useless. I f***ing hate this place, I wish the job in Pittsburgh was still open.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Pretty much never true when it comes to the Cup.

Lots of 'most talented teams' and presidents trophy teams never get a sniff at the finals.

8 presidents trophy winners in last 36 seasons, and it's arguable whether a few of them were 'most talented'

With the exception of St. Louis (there's always the possibility that an inferior team gets hot goaltending and makes a miracle run once or twice a decade), the Cup champions over the last decade have been Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Los Angeles. These are the teams that have stacked talent and clearly have been a cut above everyone else in the league.

You don't see middling teams or pseudo-contenders like the Islanders this year winning cups barring a lottery ticket where their goaltending is on fire, their shooting percentage/special teams goes off and everything aligns perfectly for 16 games. Talent wins.

 

[Lou is God]

But if he just said I hope they win the Cup what do you think happens to our pick? It still becomes the 32nd pick OMG JUST LIKE FITZ WANTED!

People love being wildly hyper-sensitive about every single thing and rephrasing this wouldn’t have saved Fitz from people freaking out over this random well-wishing to long time Devils players.

I already answered that, I would not have connected it that way. But that's me.

 

[billingtons ghost]

With the exception of St. Louis (there's always the possibility that an inferior team gets hot goaltending and makes a miracle run once or twice a decade), the Cup champions over the last decade have been Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Los Angeles. These are the teams that have stacked talent and clearly have been a cut above./QUOTE]


This is, with the exception of Tampa, simply untrue.

Those teams were all very good but none of them were a cut above. Did the Caps get an influx of 'talent' to get them past the Pens? Not unless you call Tom Wilson talent.
Tampa lost with the most talented team for several years, but added Coleman and Goodrow at the deadline, not more talent.

I didn't say you can win without talent. But you don't just stockpile first rounders and then whammo, here's your cup.

 

[13BearerOfHope]

Because he said he hopes for the two of them to win the cup this year.

thanks I didn’t know the draft pick is related directly to where you finish. Newbie in that regard. As a GM he should think of his team first but who knows, maybe this statement tells us something about his relationship to Trav and Palms and the likelihood they may actually return...I hope they do. Losing 2 proven assets for a no1 pick with risks does not sound overwhelming

 

[Bleedred]

I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick. I hope both of these gentlemen win the Cup. Also, I hope we whiff on the pick, I hope both of these gentlemen fill the net when we play them on the Island. I hope Nico doesn't return before the end of the season, then demands a trade. I hope Covid 19 mutates into strain that renders all of the existing vaccines useless. I f***ing hate this place, I wish the job in Pittsburgh was still open.