Confirmed with Link: Palms and Zajac traded to Isles for 2021 1st, AJ Greer, Mason Jobst, 2022 conditional 4th

[Unknown Caller]

Or, they win the cup, and you're wrong.

Everything in your post highlights the fact that either they make moves like this NOW or don't bother ever making moves, because Trotz won't stick around forever, and Barzal has only a few truly prime years left.

Posts like yours make me laugh because they seem to be saying, "I want roster management that gives me a team that gets knocked out in the first round every year.". It's goofy paper logic, like you can just add up talent like a ledger and that is what matters.

So, say the Isles keep all of those picks and use them. Who do they pick that will even push them over the hill to a cup? At pick 28? Next year?

They got a sniper and a guy who wins faceoffs and has a game winning it goal in the playoffs.

If you want a cup, and don't give up bellows or a roster player to get a top 6 guy and a #3 center it's a great frigging move.

This is exactly the thinking that doesn't allow organizations to win cups. The Islanders are a decent team with some ok pieces. Not even sure where to start with the Bellows comment. The guy sucks and you're acting like they had some major coup by keeping him. 75% of this board didn't even have interest in the guy and we wouldn't protect him in the expansion draft anyway (nor will the Islanders).

Your argument is basically that if you have a halfway decent team, you should spend any assets that aren't top 10 picks to acquire any moderately effective player that helps you win now, and play the lottery that your team miraculously walks through Boston, Washington, Toronto/Tampa and Colorado/Vegas to a Cup.

 

[Goptor]

I'm pretty sure Buffalo is all but guaranteed the 32nd pick.

I guess the Devils could trade for that pick?

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah, like score 134 points in a season, win four cups, etc..

Yeah, there’s a few goofy Jersey Retirements (I’m looking at you, Colorado’s retired #77) but a guy whose arrival helped get them their first Cup win (after they couldn’t get to the finals), and who was a big part of the other three Cup runs (including a Con Smythe win) can have his Jersey retired. There’s a lot of numbers under 100.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I hope the pick we get is the 32nd pick. I hope both of these gentlemen win the Cup. Also, I hope we whiff on the pick, I hope both of these gentlemen fill the net when we play them on the Island. I hope Nico doesn't return before the end of the season, then demands a trade. I hope Covid 19 mutates into strain that renders all of the existing vaccines useless. I f***ing hate this place, I wish the job in Pittsburgh was still open.

 

[Unknown Caller]

This is, with the exception of Tampa, simply untrue.

Those teams were all very good but none of them were a cut above. Did the Caps get an influx of 'talent' to get them past the Pens? Not unless you call Tom Wilson talent.
Tampa lost with the most talented team for several years, but added Coleman and Goodrow at the deadline, not more talent.

I didn't say you can win without talent. But you don't just stockpile first rounders and then whammo, here's your cup.

I think you're misinterpreting the statement that talent wins Cups. It doesn't mean that talent guarantees that you win every year and it doesn't mean that the Presidents Trophy winner wins every year. It means that having a collection of elite players that are at the top of the league in terms of talent are a requirement for winning a Cup, with the exception of miracle runs that are few and far between.

If you don't have that collection of talent for sustained success, you probably shouldn't burn all of your futures and assets and load up on aging players, and no amount of "experience" is going to make a difference.

Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Los Angeles (and maybe Boston) were head and shoulders the most talented teams over the last decade. They had loads of elite players, sucked for years and sold off pieces to collect futures to get that elite talent, and then had extended runs after those pieces matures.

Now it's Tampa, Toronto, and Colorado in that position. The Islanders aren't there. They need a Blues miracle run. Sure, it's possible. Not something I would mortgage the future for.

 

[Incharge1976]

Zajac was a "0" if I'm reading the correctly, why did we have to add him?

I disagree with him being a zero. He does a lot more than score a little.

 

[billingtons ghost]

This is exactly the thinking that doesn't allow organizations to win cups. The Islanders are a decent team with some ok pieces. Not even sure where to start with the Bellows comment. The guy sucks and you're acting like they had some major coup by keeping him. 75% of this board didn't even have interest in the guy and we wouldn't protect him in the expansion draft anyway (nor will the Islanders).

Your argument is basically that if you have a halfway decent team, you should spend any assets that aren't top 10 picks to acquire any moderately effective player that helps you win now, and play the lottery that your team miraculously walks through Boston, Washington, Toronto/Tampa and Colorado/Vegas to a Cup.

They reached the east finals last year, man. What planet are you from? Halfway decent? When do you think that they are next going to be as close as they are right now? Your approach to building a team is like you have infinite time, no salary cap, and that you are going to hit on every pick.

If you have even a slim chance, you have to go for it and giving up a high 1st in a weak draft is cheap.

If not, why don't we just pick the most talented team on paper right now, and everyone can go home.

 

[MachoDiablo]

This is a well written, sensible post that lots of people are agreeing with. It's also wrong for a number of reasons, chiefly that at some point you need to win before you have to pay your players in the salary cap era.

For example, the Maple Leafs and Oilers windows to win are closing rapidly as evidenced by the fact that Nuge might not be around next year, and they have paperthin depth. Also, the Leafs have already had to jettison talent and make tough decisions.

I get that the trade is a good one, and a first is a coup, but I agree with the sentiment that Fitz needs to be active before both drafts this year to change picks and prospects into NHL talent next year.

Its great they locked up Nico, but you want to have at least a taste of playoffs under your belt before you dish out cash for all of the kids, and we are clearly a few years from the playoffs, especially if Murray and Kulikov walk.

It isn't an endless treadmill of picks. If Hughes is our savior, we can't wait until after he and Ty and bratt and mb29 and zacha and Sevs all get paid else we will never get there unless they suck really bad and we get superteamfriendly contracts.

The catch is what kind of players you acquire while developing your young talent.

If you end up trading picks and whatnot for complimentary players before your core is developed, you're needlessly diminishing your depth for players who aren't going to be the difference between this being a playoff team or not. Even if you use your assets to get a big star before you have a real core built in place, you risk wasting the best of what he can give you because your team's just not ready yet (wondering if that'll be the fate of Panarin with the Rangers). That doesn't mean you don't sign/trade for anybody, of course; nobody builds 100% of a winning team exclusively through the draft, so taking advantage of a good deal to get a star player or making some smart one-year signings ala what they did this year with Kulikov and Murray can make plenty of sense. Hell, I thought Johnnson was a smart target last offseason given his youth and potential; sucks the results haven't really been there this year, but I still think it was good process to get a guy like that to grow with the other young guys (maybe with a non-crazy season next year he can settle in better).

But when you're rebuilding, the ultimate determinant of whether you have a legitimate shot at the playoffs or not is going to be how the young core develops; there's no single big trade or signing Fitz can make this offseason that can catapult the Devils up the standings, not unless the key youth on this team takes the next step forward in their development...which, honestly, there's every reason to believe they will, but a big part of rebuilding is having the patience to let it happen, first. I'm not sure we all fully appreciate just how bereft this organization has been of talent from the farm through the big club since at least 2012; they just finally started addressing that in a real way over the past couple of years, and it's going to take time for enough of it to emerge that we can finally look at this roster and not see a hodgepodge of holes to fill.

 

[SKNJD9]

Travis centering a line with Palms and Bailey tonight

 

[Unknown Caller]

They reached the east finals last year, man. What planet are you from? Halfway decent? When do you think that they are next going to be as close as they are right now? Your approach to building a team is like you have infinite time, no salary cap, and that you are going to hit on every pick.

If you have even a slim chance, you have to go for it and giving up a high 1st in a weak draft is cheap.

If not, why don't we just pick the most talented team on paper right now, and everyone can go home.

They didn't win the cup. They won two rounds. Two.

And you obviously won't hit on every pick, which is why you acquire 5 first round picks over 2 years like the Devils have. You need to hit on a majority of your picks, with a focus on elite talent and depth to support the elite talent. Go look at how any consistent cup contender/cup champion in the cap era has been built and come back to me.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Now it's Tampa, Toronto, and Colorado in that position. The Islanders aren't there. They need a Blues miracle run. Sure, it's possible. Not something I would mortgage the future for.

Have you watched the Isles play? Shutting out the Caps last week? Nobody has played between divisions this year. Who is to say that perhaps the team who gets out of the East meat grinder doesn't just steamroll everyone? Or lose every game?

It is a complete crapshoot this year.

It's been nine years of 'stockpiling' and rebuilding for us, and with unbelievable lottery luck and suckassness we maybe have five if we are lucky or maybe twenty if we aren't to even sniff a cup.

You cannot begrudge a guy for taking a shot at delivering a miracle to a fan base whose last relevance was 40 years in the past. This is their best shot for maybe the next twenty years, and it wouldn't matter if they had a huge pipeline and tons of picks.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

I 'member the first trade that sadden me as a fan: Muller for Richer. That one sadden me as far as big trades go. Semak for Chambers really hit me. Loved that little guy under Brooks. Lemieux for Thomas also upset me, but the sting wasn't as bad. Arnott and McKay was similar to this but by then I was desensitized.

Palms, meh, Zajac, was a great Devil and was great for all the memes but at 36 and a UFA. If thats the difference between a 2nd and a 1st, I'm sending him an Uber. Who am I kidding? A Lyft, they're cheaper.

Any who, Richer got us a cup, and a great resident screen name, as did Chambers. Pep came back and got us another cup, Joe and Langs got us another cup, so...

...I'll wait and see what happens with this first pick. Wish them well, and I leave it all to the universe and my faith in our lord and savior...

...Anssi Salmela or Nico or Jack, whoever gets their deity membership card first.

 

[hidek91]

I'm pretty sure Buffalo is all but guaranteed the 32nd pick.

I guess the Devils could trade for that pick?

Well, they'd have to win the cup and let's just say that this may not be their year yet

Seriously though, the first round is extended to 32 picks as Seattle joins the party!

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I think the Islanders get leveled by Tampa if Kucherov is back and in a groove by the time they meet (if they do). I don’t think it was the wrong move to go for it in this weird year, it wouldn’t be a total shock if they did win it.

But there is no denying they have mortgaged their future a bit. Their cap situation already caused them to lose Toews who has easily been one of the best players in the NHL.

 

[billingtons ghost]

They didn't win the cup. They won two rounds. Two.

And you obviously won't hit on every pick, which is why you acquire 5 first round picks over 2 years like the Devils have. You need to hit on a majority of your picks, with a focus on elite talent and depth to support the elite talent. Go look at how any consistent cup contender/cup champion in the cap era has been built and come back to me.

That's my point. There are few if any "consistent cup contenders"... And if there are, they are only created by inserting plugs around a lucky generational talent first or second overall pick. Not by stockpiling lots of guys and picks.

You have to win now, or the Cap will get you, like it has caught Chicago and Pittsburgh and like it will catch Toronto and Edmonton who will both have to field a legendary first line along with paperthin plugs.

 

[NJDevs26]

How many teams besides Tampa and Colorado actually have more than a 5% chance to win the Cup this year? And even their odds probably aren’t as high as you think.

 

[HBK27]

Well, they'd have to win the cup and let's just say that this may not be their year yet

Seriously though, the first round is extended to 32 picks as Seattle joins the party!

I was thinking that as well, but with Arizona being forced to forfeit their first rounder he's correct...Buffalo is probably getting that 32nd pick.

 

[Unknown Caller]

How many teams besides Tampa and Colorado actually have more than a 5% chance to win the Cup this year? And even their odds probably aren’t as high as you think.

Tampa, Toronto, Colorado, Vegas, Boston, Carolina are all over 5%. Strong odds it will be one of Colorado, Tampa and Toronto.

 

[Unknown Caller]

That's my point. There are few if any "consistent cup contenders"... And if there are, they are only created by inserting plugs around a lucky generational talent first or second overall pick. Not by stockpiling lots of guys and picks.

You have to win now, or the Cap will get you, like it has caught Chicago and Pittsburgh and like it will catch Toronto and Edmonton who will both have to field a legendary first line along with paperthin plugs.

What? Los Angeles and Chicago didn’t have the “generational” player. Tampa doesn’t have a “generational” player. They stacked elite (but not generational) talent through high picks and volume of picks. They have insane depth, not “plugs around a generational player.” How is this even debatable?

 

[NJDevs26]

Tampa, Toronto, Colorado, Vegas, Boston, Carolina are all over 5%. Strong odds it will be one of Colorado, Tampa and Toronto.

I agree with Toronto by default because of the format, don’t really agree on Carolina or Vegas given they likely have to beat one of TB/COL just to get to the last four. Definitely don’t agree with Boston, they’re arguably third or fourth best in the division.

 

[Unknown Caller]

I agree with Toronto by default because of the format, don’t really agree on Carolina or Vegas given they likely have to beat one of TB/COL just to get to the last four. Definitely don’t agree with Boston, they’re arguably third or fourth best in the division.

A healthy Boston is the best team in this division by a pretty decent margin.

 

[Incharge1976]

How does being nice after the trade effect the value of the picks?

It doesn't change a thing. It's just bad optics. Both were Devils and apparently good guys. Unfortunately one wasn't playing well and wanted out, and the other waived his NTC. I wish them well as individuals but I'm not rooting or hoping they win a thing because it affects our pick. I hope the Islanders lose every game from here on out to maximize the value of our pick.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I 'member the first trade that sadden me as a fan: Muller for Richer. That one sadden me as far as big trades go. Semak for Chambers really hit me. Loved that little guy under Brooks. Lemieux for Thomas also upset me, but the sting wasn't as bad. Arnott and McKay was similar to this but by then I was desensitized.

Palms, meh, Zajac, was a great Devil and was great for all the memes but at 36 and a UFA. If thats the difference between a 2nd and a 1st, I'm sending him an Uber. Who am I kidding? A Lyft, they're cheaper.

Any who, Richer got us a cup, and a great resident screen name, as did Chambers. Pep came back and got us another cup, Joe and Langs got us another cup, so...

...I'll wait and see what happens with this first pick. Wish them well, and I leave it all to the universe and my faith in our lord and savior...

...Anssi Salmela or Nico or Jack, whoever gets their deity membership card first.

We'll head down to the Mike Mottau Man's Club to commiserate over beers.

 

[devilsblood]

They didn't win the cup. They won two rounds. Two.

And you obviously won't hit on every pick, which is why you acquire 5 first round picks over 2 years like the Devils have. You need to hit on a majority of your picks, with a focus on elite talent and depth to support the elite talent. Go look at how any consistent cup contender/cup champion in the cap era has been built and come back to me.

Winning two rounds is not insignificant. Only two teams won more.

 

[devilsblood]

A healthy Boston is the best team in this division by a pretty decent margin.

They are?