Proposal: Pacioretty for Marchand

[HuGo Sham]

it's always always the same on HF - marchand now the flavor of the 'week' because of the year he had. i like marchand, but to say he's better than pacioretty is a joke. 67 also played in World cup for an awful coach who essentially killed the US' chances. If patches had scored big goals in that tourney suddenly he'd be the one everyone wants. but alas, a larger sample size puts pacioretty ahead of marchand, factoring in, age, size, goal scoring and contracts. i'm not denigrating marchand, but to say he's the better player is wrong

 

[webersshot]

Patches for Kocherov is the deal MTL should be focusing on.

yup... that'd be sick drouin would have been nice

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Why didn't Marchand play on the PP? If he's better than max that should be a no brainer?

 

[Fledgemyhedge]

Looking at players' careers to gauge their value in a trade is a failure of colossal proportions, because teams don't trade players having in mind what they did, but instead what they will do.

Anyways... It is interesting to note that a player like Marchand, called by some in this thread a "20-25 goals" player, has only 21 goals less than mega goal scorer Pacioretty over the course of roughly 6 seasons worth of games. Also, with Marchand having played 27 games less.
If showing these numbers was intended as a knock on Marchand, it achieves the opposite effect, tbh.

As things stand today, Marchand IS better in pretty much everything than Pacioretty. No deal from the Bruins, Montreal would do this instead.

It's interesting that you would use the 6 season benchmark, while most would round the number off to 5. Oh that's because pacioretty hadn't established himself yet. If marchands is significantly better at defense than pacioretty a 21 goals more is significant

 

[GoJetsGo55]

This feels like the definition of a trade both sides decline.

 

[northeastern]

Why didn't Marchand play on the PP? If he's better than max that should be a no brainer?

That was a common question all last season on the bruins board. No real excuse in my opinion for CJ to not play him... Im going to guess he'll see second unit time this season as the first unit will probably be the same as last season with backes taking Louis spot.

 

[BruinLVGA]

It's interesting that you would use the 6 season benchmark, while most would round the number off to 5. Oh that's because pacioretty hadn't established himself yet. If marchands is significantly better at defense than pacioretty a 21 goals more is significant

You didn't think this statement through very well, did you? I chose 6 seasons because the total amount of games played (= their career) by both is 454 games (Marchand) and 481 games (Pacioretty), which at 82 games per season, it's roughly 6 seasons worth (yeah, I know they have both been in the league more seasons, but my point was to show the very little difference in goals between the two per each 82 games span, on average. Which promptly flew over your head at UFO speed). Next time post once you are fully awake, will ya?

 

[LastChancePrice]

How often to old rivals trade? How many trades have boston and mtl made in the last 10 yrs?

2000. Traverse for Weinreich. It actually didnt happen offen, in 64 lastest major was Boston sending the right to Dryden to Montreal.

 

[LastChancePrice]

Wow, minority opinion, but for me it's Pacioretty all day, every day. People are in love with Marchand for his WC performance, give me the bigger guy who scores more every day.

Not to mention that someday somebody gonna knock Marchand out.

Im not just only a fan of his WC performance, just being liking guys like Gallagher and as much as i hate Marchand, id be willing to trade Pac for him. Its my preference. Its a blockboster i eould love to see. Could it happen? Well, if Gretzky can get trade...

 

[Moose Head]

In regards to " Who's Better ":

- My gut tells me that Max Pac is a better goal scorer, but digging deeper into the numbers, it's much closer than I thought. While Mac Pac has had the bigger goal years, Marchand hasn't been that far behind. I think before last season's goal scoring breakthru, Marchand averaged around 25 goals a year.

- Marchand has the most shorthanded goals since coming into the league, and by a rather ridiculous amount.

- I prefer Marchand's style over Max Pac. Marchand's antics may have it's detractors and while it's certainly gotten him in trouble, he's the best pest in the league when you combine his antics and mouth with the fact that he has top line skill. High energy, works hard and skates hard, plays against top lines with the best matchup center in the NHL, and like I noted above, is the biggest shorthanded threat in the league.

They're both really good. Can analyze everything people want. They're both really good. This thread is just sillyness.

 

[M2Beezy]

If Montreal added there 2017 1st round pick Boston would then be interested in this trade. Thats a lotto pick that could turn into Patrick

 

[Kitchener Boy]

Agreed, easy Marchand over Patches. Looks like most fans agree outside of Montreal

Neutral fan here

No surprise really.

 

[ORRMAN]

Given the contracts, they are fairly even. I believe Marchand is on a nice upward trajectory, and I prefer his game, so I would keep our super pest. Why such indignant responses on the part of several Montreal fans? Most neutral fans want Marchand.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

im a bruin fan and a huge marchand fan but theres really no need to crap on either player here

marchand does play dirty... but not cheap where hes hurting anyone. hes a bit like a ken linseman or a claude lemieux. when these guys play for your own team you overlook their antics and even appreciate most of them

as for pacioretty he might be very streaky... he might not always engage for a bigger pf type guy... but results are results. when he gets hot and competes he can be one hell of a good player

both guys are above average second liners on anyteam... both would be decent first liners on most teams... im not sure either makes my list of top 15 wingers in the league but both are easily in my top 25

montreal and boston would never in 50 years ever never ever trade such important players with each other. this is probably the biggest rivalry in all the nhl

edmonton would never trade a first line player with calgary
anaheim and la wont do it
colorado and detroit
tampa and florida
rangers and islanders

theres just some rivalries that no gm would ever risk making this type of trade

maybe if you are moving an imposdible contract like phaneuf you deal between toronto and ottawa... but marchand and pacioretty are both loved by their respective fanbase.

the only purpose for this thread is to open up bashing... it helps neither team. the truth is both players are happy where they are. their value is roughly ballpark...

im shocked a mod didnt close this already

 

[Weztex]

(...)

both guys are above average second liners on anyteam... both would be decent first liners on most teams... im not sure either makes my list of top 15 wingers in the league but both are easily in my top 25

(...)

What kind of crazy standards is that? You know there's 30 first lines?

Last 3 years combined :
Pacioretty - 2nd in goals, 2nd in points among LW
Marchand - 4th in goals, 18th in points among LW

Both are bonafide 1st liners and have been for a while.

 

[Legend123]

If Montreal added there 2017 1st round pick Boston would then be interested in this trade. Thats a lotto pick that could turn into Patrick

feels more like they already have a lotto pick. And no Pacs is not worth less than Marchand.

 

[V13]

I wouldn't do it but......

Just imagine for an instant a team that has Marchand , Gallagher , Shaw and Farnham.

The world would crumble

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

What kind of crazy standards is that? You know there's 30 first lines?

Last 3 years combined :
Pacioretty - 2nd in goals, 2nd in points among LW
Marchand - 4th in goals, 18th in points among LW

Both are bonafide 1st liners and have been for a while.

im saying you will find when most people list their top 10 wingers per side... pacioretty and marchand wouldnt make that list

marchand has traditionally been used on a second line in boston... he traditionally gets around 16-17 mins of icetime.

he has been a GREAT second liner for years. i believe most teams would use him on their first line but against better checking i dont think he scores as much

this isnt a guy that excels at substained preasure. he agitates and throws the opponent ofv their game. they make mistakes. his quickness and shot allows him to capitalize on mistakes.

pacioretty i think is used as a first liner on pp and against top checkers... but he often frustrates his fans. he often disappears.

i would take at least 10 guys on my first line ahead of these 2 players which doesnt mean they suck... just dont qualify as elite since 10-20 is average by definition

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

What kind of crazy standards is that? You know there's 30 first lines?

Last 3 years combined :
Pacioretty - 2nd in goals, 2nd in points among LW
Marchand - 4th in goals, 18th in points among LW

Both are bonafide 1st liners and have been for a while.

i decided to go to nhl.com and do some research

over last 3 seasons pacioretti is 9th in points per game at lw
marchand is 28th

pacioretti is very high for goal scoring ranking 3rd behind benn and ovechkin

as for where id rank these 2 players among lw..,

not ahead of
benn
ovechkin
gaudreau
hall
zetterberg
sedin

no controversies there
then comes a group some might argue
steen
paraise
forsberg
landesberg
lucic
paranin

on top of this group some might include
nash
eriksson
too although both are declining now with bad contracts


so... i think im ok not calling them elite first line options... theres at least 10 teams that wouldnt trade their own lw for one of these 2 guys

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Marchand has managed at least 20 goals five times in five full seasons with Boston (he had 18 goals in the 48-game season), doing so with minimal power-play time. In fact, his 66 even-strength goals since the start of the 2013-14 season lands him in the same ballpark as more reputed scorers like Crosby (69), Patrick Kane (69), Phil Kessel (68) and John Tavares (67).

The powerplay was stacked postion wise, that was Julien. Pastrnakand Chara were not on it either, they split it up from the lines. It was Bergeron the puck chaser, Eriksson the net front guy, Spooner the wall passer, Krug and Krejci on the point, hard to beat that. So if he did play the PP I imagine he would have had over 40 easily.

Add to that he is an elite penatly killer, usually near the top of leading it in short handed goals. Never takes a shift off. As for him taking bad penalties, that ended last year after the suspension. Both guys have had bad reps in the 1st few years, none are saints. Bruins would really Like Patches for sure and he is from the area. No way they do it though because of the intagibles Marchand brings, right now he may be a better leader, elite PKer, scoring and chemistry with Bergy and signed long term. Montreal made the choice between him and PK and took the one that bowed down to management, he is staying. Patches is a good goal scoring but is not captain material, that will be Weber soon.

 

[3B]

Patches-----481 GP....174 G...170 A....344 TP.....71 PPG AVERAGE
Marchand---454 GP....153 G...136 A....289 TP......63 PPG AVERAGE.

What was that you were saying again.

Keep in mind too that Marchand has seen very little PP time during his career with the Bruins.

 

[JCRO]

Habs and Bs don't trade together.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

it's always always the same on HF - marchand now the flavor of the 'week' because of the year he had. i like marchand, but to say he's better than pacioretty is a joke. 67 also played in World cup for an awful coach who essentially killed the US' chances. If patches had scored big goals in that tourney suddenly he'd be the one everyone wants. but alas, a larger sample size puts pacioretty ahead of marchand, factoring in, age, size, goal scoring and contracts. i'm not denigrating marchand, but to say he's the better player is wrong

The best part about an internet forum is that you're entitled to have your very own incorrect opinion here.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

How do you measure heart, soul, grit and determination vs points.

Marchand is a hockey player. Better in 9000 ways.

 

[PsychoDad]

i decided to go to nhl.com and do some research

over last 3 seasons pacioretti is 9th in points per game at lw
marchand is 28th

pacioretti is very high for goal scoring ranking 3rd behind benn and ovechkin

as for where id rank these 2 players among lw..,

not ahead of
benn
ovechkin
gaudreau
hall
zetterberg
sedin

no controversies there

Zetterberg and Sedin are on a gradual declining curve. They are not better than both MaxPac and Marchand anymore.
Hall needs to show up big in NJ because he wasn't good lately either, especially defensively.

then comes a group some might argue
steen
paraise
forsberg
landesberg
Lucic
paranin

Are you posting drunk? Who are Paraise, Landesberg and Paranin? ))