P.K. Subban Thread - Mk III - Unsigned Edition

[sheed36]

I like Kulikov a lot but he's not nearly as proven as PK. Not that Florida is stacked defensively but he didn't get (and thrive in) quite the same difficult assignments as PK.

Let me remind everyone about this which shows you just how good Subban really is: http://hockeyanalytics.com/2012/06/2012-player-usage-charts/

Despite playing the second toughest defensive minutes on the team after Gorges, the Habs were significantly better with Subban on the ice than without him. The same can't be said of Gorges and Plekanec, the teams other two most defensively important players.

The same can't be said of Kulikov (who did respectable but was out-possessed in a moderately difficult role), Del Zotto (who was used in 60% offensive zone starts). Or even Myers and his generous contract.

Within Subban's age group compareables are Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, McDonaugh rant, Pietranglo - the kind of guys who have superstar upside. Subban played - and thrived in - a more difficult role than Doughty last year.



Surprised he got that little, Kulikov is very talented. But he was poor in the playoffs last year, probably didn't help his case. I think he's going to be a good one but he has consistency issues.

I've heard that many times about Subban also.

 

[Et le But]

I've heard that many times about Subban also.

All young defenseman have that problem to some degree, but Subban will have a bad game or so, while Kulikov will have good and bad months.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

 

[DAChampion]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

I agree.

 

[Angler]

Well, that's contradictory. You can't say Bergy wants to put forth a team structure, and he needs to stand on his ground because if he budges now, it simply looks bad on him. In other words, he will stick to his 2y bridge contract idea. But then say, if PK wanted an 8y deal at 4.5M, he would agree to it because it's an amazing deal.
It's either one or the other. If Bergy is open to a long term deal, then the problem is they haven't agreed on a number, it has nothing to do with team structure.

Well no its not. I doubt MB would be that inflexible, it wouldn't be logical as you would put it. I am sure he much prefers a 2 year deal and is battling to get that now, but if Subban wanted to sign a huge deal at that cap hit (which is very small...) I don't doubt he would pull thee trigger. If that deal that you proposed was on the table from Subbans side, this negotiation ends because its a steal. While noone actually knows, I would bet that the longterm contract that Subban wants is at a cap hit WAY higher than 4.5.

All in all, if this bridge contract idea is true, I think it's stupid.
You are saying it's principle vs logic. Logic would tell you, PK is already a star and is only going to get better, so sign him long term now for cheaper.
Principle, everybody needs to follow a 2y bridge contract.

Well you've gotten the meaning of logic mixed up again. Yes PK is a great player and could be alot better in the future, but the logical reality is there are no guarntees on his development. There have been plenty of players who take nose dives early in their NHL careers. Therefore the logical approach would to be cautious and try to sign him to a 2 year deal where they can further evaluate his progression and pay him accordingly when he comes close to reaching UFA status. I think he would succeed, but thats just my opinion that is really based on nothing concrete other than watching him play 82+ games. I can't tell the future, niether can MB, and niether can you. With an uncertain future, caution is wise.

In the end, Habs management are taking the logical approach to this, contrary to your believes. They are being cautious and trying to protect the franchise salary structure. If Subban gets Doughty money any top UFA will want similar money because Subbans contract will have set the tone for future negotiations in Montreal (not to mention Gally when he comes of age).

It's just dumb. Sign the kid already, he's your best player, and the only leverage you have is he's a RFA. Creating a rift between management and your star player this early in your tenure is just dumb.
Also, from what the fans have demonstrated yesterday, it seems there's more chances of Bergevin creating a rift between him and the fans more so than PK and the fans.

This is business and Subban obviously knows it. He is mature enough to take it as it is, a business negotiations with nothing personal attached. I don't see a rift forming, this isn't a group of prepubescent teens, its professionals. The only rift that is being created is between two groups of fans, who are arguing on the internet tooth and nail as if they had hurt each others families or something.

People are being way to dramatic

 

[Et le But]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

5 for 5 is perfectly reasonable, any more than that and I understand the hesitation, though going up to around 5.25 is still something I think is worth doing. Of course it also depends on the yearly breakdown.

 

[MrNasty]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

I don't think 5 years is fair value...not yet..unless it doesn't have a NTC. If he has a poor attitude and loses respect from teammates then you have to be able to move him.

 

[RC51]

Patches signed for 6 years at 4.5
Subban is not a better player he is about the same quality player.
so match up the Patches contract. 6 at 4.5 that way MB is ok with that.

 

[Jabba11]

Maybe PK wants to be a Maple Leafs?

 

[vipergtx18*]

Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???

 

[vipergtx18*]

Maybe PK wants to be a Maple Leafs?

Comments like that are usualy saved for April fools day lol

 

[chaosrevolver]

Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???

Do not forget that you wont hear about an offer sheet made that is not signed by the player.

It is a real possibility that PK just wants to stay a Hab and doesnt want to sign an offer sheet for anyone else.

 

[Le Tricolore]

I don't think 5 years is fair value...not yet..unless it doesn't have a NTC. If he has a poor attitude and loses respect from teammates then you have to be able to move him.

What a dumb thing to say. Why would he just suddenly lose respect for people?

 

[DAChampion]

Can anybody answer me this. Why has no other team offered him a contract, which they have every right to do so???

RFA offer sheets are almost never signed, even though many, many of them are amazing.

That is because the compensation packages are prohibitive, as is the fear of retaliation.

 

[FinnHab]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

$4M-> max $4.75M

 

[maci4life]

What a dumb thing to say. Why would he just suddenly lose respect for people?

ummm lets see

fight in practice with pleks

fight in practice with DD

that was just last year.

None of us know how PK can or will turn out. I think he's going to need a football helmet soon because his head won't fit in a hockey helmet anymore.

 

[VAN-HAB]

sign him for 5.5 for 6 years.... is not from my pay anyway.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

She works for CJAD and CTV in sports. She spoke to Meehan on the phone. I mean, that's about as good as it gets, no?

I just spoke to Meehan and he said she's a nutjob

 

[Natey]

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
As @hfialkov first reported Dmitri Kulikov now signed with FLA. Two year deal with AAV of $2.5M ($2M and $3M). FLA submits for NHL approval

That is good for Marc Bergevin. Kulikov had a very similar season to PK and is also coming off his ELC. Kulikov was actually on pace for slighty more points although he logged about 2-minutes less per game than PK (24 minutes for PK, 22 minutes for Kulikov).

Kulikov is slotted in as the #2 in Florida behind Campbell. Subban is the #1 or #2 (depending on how Markov plays and how he holds up). PK deserves a bit more, but this is great. $3M per for two years would be excellent.

Good bargaining chip for MB.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

Just for fun, what do you guys think fair value is for PK?

Let's say he demands a 5 year deal, and MB obliges, what do you think he would be worth?

Personally I'd say $5-$5.25 is reasonable.

I would be happy for 2-3 years at ~4 million.

Longer term I think is riskier since he's not completely proven yet and his attitude, maturity and productivity needs to improve significantly to warrant top D $. For example I think he needs a 55-60 point season under his belt before he busts the bank. Right now I would be OK with a ~4.5 million for up to 6 years. Like Max Pac.

I like the 2-3 year deal. If he performs like so many on here argue he will, then he will get top D $.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

ummm lets see

fight in practice with pleks

fight in practice with DD

that was just last year.

None of us know how PK can or will turn out. I think he's going to need a football helmet soon because his head won't fit in a hockey helmet anymore.

Because fights in practice NEVER happen!

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

That is good for Marc Bergevin. Kulikov had a very similar season to PK and is also coming off his ELC. Kulikov was actually on pace for slighty more points although he logged about 2-minutes less per game than PK.

Kulikov is slotted in as the #2 in Florida behind Campbell. Subban is the #1 or #2 (depending on how Markov plays and how he holds up). PK deserves a bit more, but this is great. $3M per for two years would be excellent.

Good bargaining chip for MB.

Not in the same category. PK has NEVER been a #2 D-man.

 

[Natey]

Not in the same category. PK has NEVER been a #2 D-man.

I don't even know what this means???

He averaged 2-minutes more per game than Kulikov, while posting a very similar season. Subban deserves more, but not much more. He's not that much better than Kulikov. This definitely works in MB's favor if they are throwing comparison contracts on the table.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

1. Weber, Shea » D NAS 27 14 $7,857,143
2. Suter, Ryan » D MIN 27 13 $7,538,462
3. Campbell, Brian » D FLA 33 8 $7,142,875
4. Doughty, Drew » D LAK 23 8 $7,000,000
5. Chara, Zdeno » D BOS 35 7 $6,916,667
6. Bouwmeester, Jay » D CGY 29 5 $6,680,000
7. Boyle, Dan » D SAN 36 6 $6,666,667
8. Phaneuf, Dion » D TOR 27 6 $6,500,000
9. Karlsson, Erik » D OTT 22 7 $6,500,000
10. Timonen, Kimmo » D PHI 37 6 $6,333,333
11. Green, Mike » D WAS 27 3 $6,083,333
12. Seabrook, Brent » D CHI 27 5 $5,800,000
13. Burns, Brent » D SAN 27 5 $5,760,000
14. Markov, Andrei » D MTL 34 3 $5,750,000
15. Visnovsky, Lubomir » D NYI 36 5 $5,600,000
16. Keith, Duncan » D CHI 29 13 $5,538,462
17. Gonchar, Sergei » D OTT 38 3 $5,500,000
18. Wisniewski, James » D CLB 28 6 $5,500,000
19. Myers, Tyler » D BUF 22 7 $5,500,000
20. Carle, Matt » D TBL 28 6 $5,500,000
21. Yandle, Keith » D PHO 26 5 $5,250,000
22. Wideman, Dennis » D CGY 29 5 $5,250,000
23. Byfuglien, Dustin » D WIN 27 5 $5,200,000
24. Martin, Paul » D PIT 31 5 $5,000,000

 

[stug*]

Well atleast we all know that Subban is all about the money.