P.K. Subban Thread IX: 'Try to make this one last longer than a day' Edition

[Hoople]

We can give contracts to twelve forwards like Prust. No headache, no risk. The team will be a hard working team with a lot of sand paper.

Dont be absurd. Prust has a role to play and he is doing very well in that role.

Read the thread started today about Practice. You will also find out the role of Prust when the Habs are not playing a game.

Prust is an impact player that is doing a lot to turn this franchise around.

 

[JustAHabFan]

you know all we got so far is rumors right ?

It's all over the news now. If you consider that as rumors then that's fine with me.

 

[DAChampion]

that's all nice and dandy, but the question remains : how much Subban think Subban is worth ?

Less than 6 million a year, and more than 4.5 million per year, that's all we know.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Dont be absurd. Prust has a role to play and he is doing very well in that role.

Read the thread started today about Practice. You will also find out the role of Prust when the Habs are not playing a game.

Prust is an impact player that is doing a lot to turn this franchise around.

 

[Miller Time]

To Pittsburgh: PK Subban

To Montreal: Pascal Dupuis, Simon Despres

i just puked in my mouth a little...

 

[JustAHabFan]

Dont be absurd. Prust has a role to play and he is doing very well in that role.

Read the thread started today about Practice. You will also find out the role of Prust when the Habs are not playing a game.

Prust is an impact player that is doing a lot to turn this franchise around.

Yes. With players like Prust, we don't need Subban. MB signed Prust first for a reason.

 

[DAChampion]

Let's no attack Prust. Prust is a good player, and it's not his fault that Bergevin overpaid. What was he supposed to do, tell Bergevin that 2.2 million would be enough for him and that 2.5 was unnecessary?

 

[Hoople]

Do you remember the good young players we gave up for Gomez? In today's league you HAVE to develop your players. The contracts the way they are, you're not going to sign impact UFAs and trades are difficult. Max, PK, Carey, Gally, etc are part of your core. How some fans are so ready to trade PK is laughable.

Comparing a Gomez contract to Subban's is so....I don't even know the words. Did you say the same after Max and Carey were signed?

You are misunderstanding me.

We cannot give every "good" player a very high contract and expect to have enough depth to ice a competitive team.

What people are missing out on is that we have players whose contracts will be expiring and will not be re-signed in the next few years. And there are some over-priced contracts on this team that need to be and will be cleared.

They are not happening this season or the next. So it fits the strategy of Bergevin to sign Subban on a bridge contract for the next couple of years while those over-priced contracts are still in play. Once they are gone and Subban continues to develop and grow, he will get a very nice and rewarding contract.

A lot of fans (and PK) are looking for instant gratification. The big picture is that to ice a strong team for the short term as well as the future, high dollar contracts just cannot be handed out. Doing so will hurt this team regarding UFAs.

 

[WG]

2 years. $3.5 million per year

Thank you. Now if the reports we have heard are true then Habs management has offered Subban about 2/3 of that amount and seem unwilling to move off that number. This whole mess leads to a couple of likely outcomes:

1) We poison the relationship with a key player and even if he signs now, this ends up with him taking a couple of short contracts and then getting out of dodge as soon as he hits 27
2) We end up trading from a weak position and getting 50 cents on the dollar.

If I were GM, we'd have a long term deal done around 5 per, hopefully. Barring that, on a bridge deal I'm fairly close to you, I'd go 2 yr and 8M or so.

But I see Bergevin coming in at a ridiculously low offer and I see a cluster-**** unfolding yet you see a plan. I just don't see it. You also see the sun rising which is irrelevant. The sun will come up on Long Island and Toronto tomorrow, that doesn't mean fanbases there cannot rightfully complain about dumbass moves by their repective franchises.

 

[Hoople]

Yes. With players like Prust, we don't need Subban. MB signed Prust first for a reason.

Why are you using hyperbole?

It makes you look silly.......no offense and not a personal attack.

 

[Hoople]

Thank you. Now if the reports we have heard are true then Habs management has offered Subban about 2/3 of that amount and seem unwilling to move off that number. This whole mess leads to a couple of likely outcomes:

1) We poison the relationship with a key player and even if he signs now, this ends up with him taking a couple of short contracts and then getting out of dodge as soon as he hits 27
2) We end up trading from a weak position and getting 50 cents on the dollar.

If I were GM, we'd have a long term deal done around 5 per, hopefully. Barring that, on a bridge deal I'm fairly close to you, I'd go 2 yr and 8M or so.

But I see Bergevin coming in at a ridiculously low offer and I see a cluster-**** unfolding yet you see a plan. I just don't see it. You also see the usn rising which is irrelevant. The sun will come up on Long Island and Toronto tomorrow, that doesn't mean fanbases there cannot rightfully complain about dumbass moves by their repective franchises.

With all due respect, you are still relying on unconfirmed rumors of what Bergevin is offering and what Subban is demanding.

 

[DAChampion]

What people are missing out on is that we have players whose contracts will be expiring and will not be re-signed in the next few years. And there are some over-priced contracts on this team that need to be and will be cleared.

If you believe these players will leave, why do you oppose the strategy of selling them for picks rather than letting them leave for nothing?

 

[JustAHabFan]

Why are you using hyperbole?

It makes you look silly.......no offense and not a personal attack.

See the irony.

 

[Power Man]

To Pittsburgh: PK Subban

To Montreal: Pascal Dupuis, Simon Despres

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

You are misunderstanding me.

We cannot give every "good" player a very high contract and expect to have enough depth to ice a competitive team.

What people are missing out on is that we have players whose contracts will be expiring and will not be re-signed in the next few years. And there are some over-priced contracts on this team that need to be and will be cleared.

They are not happening this season or the next. So it fits the strategy of Bergevin to sign Subban on a bridge contract for the next couple of years while those over-priced contracts are still in play. Once they are gone and Subban continues to develop and grow, he will get a very nice and rewarding contract.

A lot of fans (and PK) are looking for instant gratification. The big picture is that to ice a strong team for the short term as well as the future, high dollar contracts just cannot be handed out. Doing so will hurt this team regarding UFAs.

OK. So why overpay Prust? Why get Bouillion? Why not trade Kaberle? There is room. It's not about instant gratification. PK has been our top Dman for 2 years. He should be paid for that. That bridge contract are for guys with question marks. "Sure Things" get deals.

I'm not sure how giving PK and players of his ilk...homegrown guys cost us from overpaying 3/4th line UFA's like Prust.

I'm all about building your team from within. You have a core and you keep that core together.

 

[Jee]

Cannot be more appropriate.

 

[WG]

With all due respect, you are still relying on unconfirmed rumors of what Bergevin is offering and what Subban is demanding.

As I said "If the reports are true" re the Habs offer. If it turns out that MB was offering 2/8 and PK was holding out for 2/12 then that's a different beast, but the stuff coming out over the last couple of days really points to MB making an extreme lowball offer, and he's doing it either b/c he can given PK's relatively limited options or b/c Bergevin's management team came in with a notion that they didn't like PK Subban the player and are setting the stage to run him off.

And for your dozens and dozens of defenses of MB over this let me ask if it turns out that this is true, that MB is holding firm to a 2/5 offer for PK? You know that ends badly, right? Is that still a good plan?

 

[Et le But]

We've an above .500 team without him and Markov is back.. we can use him to fetch us a solid 2nd or 3rd liner with size.

We beat the horrendous Panthers and winless Capitals, better start planning the parade.

 

[JustAHabFan]

As I said "If the reports are true" re the Habs offer. If it turns out that MB was offering 2/8 and PK was holding out for 2/12 then that's a different beast, but the stuff coming out over the last couple of days really points to MB making an extreme lowball offer, and he's doing it either b/c he can given PK's relatively limited options or b/c Bergevin's management team came in with a notion that they didn't like PK Subban the player and are setting the stage to run him off.

And for your dozens and dozens of defenses of MB over this let me ask if it turns out that this is true, that MB is holding firm to a 2/5 offer for PK? You know that ends badly, right? Is that still a good plan?

You saw the answer in one his post. MB just take the role of GM for less than a year. He had a plan. Give him some time.

 

[Et le But]

I can assure you that Gauthier would have signed Subban for $6 million per season by now.

But then again, all one has to do is look at his track record and see why this team finished in last place.

And that's exactly what Subban will ask for in 2 years assuming he's even slightly better and MB can no longer tell him to "prove himself". The only way Subban gets cheaper from here on out is if he sucks.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You are misunderstanding me.

We cannot give every "good" player a very high contract and expect to have enough depth to ice a competitive team.

What people are missing out on is that we have players whose contracts will be expiring and will not be re-signed in the next few years. And there are some over-priced contracts on this team that need to be and will be cleared.

They are not happening this season or the next. So it fits the strategy of Bergevin to sign Subban on a bridge contract for the next couple of years while those over-priced contracts are still in play. Once they are gone and Subban continues to develop and grow, he will get a very nice and rewarding contract.

A lot of fans (and PK) are looking for instant gratification. The big picture is that to ice a strong team for the short term as well as the future, high dollar contracts just cannot be handed out. Doing so will hurt this team regarding UFAs.

Yeah as if Montreal was a hub for attracting UFAs.

Don't you see the inherent fallacy in your line of thought? To get UFAs, you usually have to overpay, which is the reason we have overpaid players in the first place.

I don't disagree with the logic of making PK wait for his huge payday so we can have more cap space on the side. Just saying, you're complaining about overpaid contracts on the team which we need to get rid of, that we need to not pay one of our best players too much, so it will help us get UFAs, which are almost guaranteed to be overpaid!

 

[Doc McKenna]

MB likely isn't, but if you listen to what PK said in his interview, he likely thinks himself worth 6+ per. You know number 1 dman and all. Yeah subby don't strain your arm patting yourself for being better than Kaberle and rookies. So even if MB was offering 3.5 and subban wanted 6 there would be no movement. It might not be MB that isn't moving his price point. Didn't we go through this with Theo-after he won a HART! Same agent, same tactics and Subban doesn't have a hart or norris or much else -Yet

 

[Et le But]

MB likely isn't, but if you listen to what PK said in his interview, he likely thinks himself worth 6+ per. You know number 1 dman and all. Yeah subby don't strain your arm patting yourself for being better than Kaberle and rookies. So even if MB was offering 3.5 and subban wanted 6 there would be no movement. It might not be MB that isn't moving his price point. Didn't we go through this with Theo-after he won a HART! Same agent, same tactics and Subban doesn't have a hart or norris or much else -Yet

Except the people who actually spoke to Subban -as in Stubbs, the man who conducted the interview, said the 6M talk is ridiculous.

 

[DAChampion]

You saw the answer in one his post. MB just take the role of GM for less than a year. He had a plan. Give him some time.

It's not enough to have a plan. At the end of the day, we live in a competitive world, and thus you need a good plan.

 

[WG]

You saw the answer in one his post. MB just take the role of GM for less than a year. He had a plan. Give him some time.

That's not really an answer. Fine, Bergevin hasn't been in his chair long, but already he's got a hand in turning a fairly simple (IMO) roster move into a complete circus. Now it may turn out that MB has been making fair offers all along and PK, despite his statement to Dave Stubbs, really does demand a Doughty contract.

I'm simply saying it doesn't look that way, and if MB is really trying to hold some hard line on one of his 2 or 3 best players, then it really doesn't make any sense as part of a bigger plan. He'll either lose the player or end up fleeced in a trade in all likelihood...holdout trades tend to not work out for the team with the unhappy player to peddle off.

And that he's new to the job doens't comfort me, one might think this is only the beginning of more peculiar moves to come.