Owen Sound Attack 2022-23 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[Sounder76]

Which is why I added the direct quote from the assistant coach. Clearly there are some issues that are not being corrected by the COACHES. I did not "blame" the player, I simply added an observation that many fans are frustrated by throughout the season. "League is full of players who want to play..." doesn't even have meaning to the issue/observation some of us are stating.

I agree it is on the coaching which is why I see a team like Erie go out and get Stan friggin Butler, a legend in this league, who could have come in and added some much needed structure and accountability to a team with immense skill and talent that is being wasted this season in my opinion.

Also, the whole "next year is our year" quotes we get from DD all the time won't mean much if the players we have now see how this year played out and may choose to go elsewhere because of the culture created in the room this year. Change is needed clearly, I just hope DD has the guts to make the difficult decisions instead of coddling people who he has groomed and therefore has too much of a personal connection to. Thus is a major junior hockey team, not a family. The successful teams make the changes, difficult or not, when it is needed as we saw Kitchener do with their coaching change. I applaud them for having the stones to do that mid-season. We all want the Attack to do better and it has been a very frustrating and sometimes head-shaking season at the Lum. Let's see forward progress, not stagnant 30 win projections. Yay, we are basically hoping for a .500 season. I don't get that notion at all.

So, I, along with many other true Attack fans I have spoken with at the Lum on game days, have one very important question that I believe should be shared with the fan base. It may even give some much needed positive energy at the rink.

We have all heard about the complicated situation that has lead to Carter (true #1 goalie for the Attack) George not being able to play any more than TEN games in the OHL this year until St Marys is eliminated from league play in the GOJHL. We have been reminded of this fact many times by various outlets of the team. While I understand the rule and can follow the logic of it, I would just like someone from the team to maybe post the rule or give us fans a quote perhaps truly explaining the actual rule. Even a simple quote from the GOJHL rulebook or the OHL book, whichever one it needs to come from.

I am quite sure all the Attack fans could understand the logic and/or rule pertaining to this somewhat unique issue. For instance, was there a specific date that George perhaps could have been up with the club for all season? Was there an issue with him NOT being put on our roster on a specific date to ensure he could have been playing MORE than TEN games? Or is this very unique situation something that came up in the middle of the season, and then our management discovered it and went "oh shoot, we should have completed the paperwork sooner in case this happens"?

All we want is a thorough explanation as to why our LEGIT #1 goalie, who is 7-2-1 and is top 5 in both save percentage and GAA in the OHL, is now opening the door for the defenceman in St Marys currently. That is the million dollar question. The fan base deserves to know the exact explanation to maybe alleviate the utter frustration we have with our goaltending situation. This is not a slam on Chenny and Votary either, they are great guys that are trying their best. Yet, most fans can see who should be patrolling the crease for the Bears, and should have been since day one if you ask this fan who watched every training camp day and pre-season. George is special and has what it takes to be a starter in this league yesterday.

Also, side note to boot here, can anyone explain why our heart and soul #13 Gavin (true beauty) Bryant has lost his "A" on his jersey? That baffles my mind, but then again many things do this season. The talent I saw in training camp was off the charts, and I slowly have watched this team swirl into a mismanaged discombobulated, throw out any combination of lines each night. NO consistency and it shows.

All we want is some decent effort and leadership, and I am sure good things would follow. I hope this doesn't come across as negative because it truly is not. It is just from a fan from 1990 that wants to see what this team truly has, and that is a helluva lot more than we are seeing these days.

 

[OSAfan]

So, I, along with many other true Attack fans I have spoken with at the Lum on game days, have one very important question that I believe should be shared with the fan base. It may even give some much needed positive energy at the rink.

We have all heard about the complicated situation that has lead to Carter (true #1 goalie for the Attack) George not being able to play any more than TEN games in the OHL this year until St Marys is eliminated from league play in the GOJHL. We have been reminded of this fact many times by various outlets of the team. While I understand the rule and can follow the logic of it, I would just like someone from the team to maybe post the rule or give us fans a quote perhaps truly explaining the actual rule. Even a simple quote from the GOJHL rulebook or the OHL book, whichever one it needs to come from.

I am quite sure all the Attack fans could understand the logic and/or rule pertaining to this somewhat unique issue. For instance, was there a specific date that George perhaps could have been up with the club for all season? Was there an issue with him NOT being put on our roster on a specific date to ensure he could have been playing MORE than TEN games? Or is this very unique situation something that came up in the middle of the season, and then our management discovered it and went "oh shoot, we should have completed the paperwork sooner in case this happens"?

All we want is a thorough explanation as to why our LEGIT #1 goalie, who is 7-2-1 and is top 5 in both save percentage and GAA in the OHL, is now opening the door for the defenceman in St Marys currently. That is the million dollar question. The fan base deserves to know the exact explanation to maybe alleviate the utter frustration we have with our goaltending situation. This is not a slam on Chenny and Votary either, they are great guys that are trying their best. Yet, most fans can see who should be patrolling the crease for the Bears, and should have been since day one if you ask this fan who watched every training camp day and pre-season. George is special and has what it takes to be a starter in this league yesterday.

Also, side note to boot here, can anyone explain why our heart and soul #13 Gavin (true beauty) Bryant has lost his "A" on his jersey? That baffles my mind, but then again many things do this season. The talent I saw in training camp was off the charts, and I slowly have watched this team swirl into a mismanaged discombobulated, throw out any combination of lines each night. NO consistency and it shows.

All we want is some decent effort and leadership, and I am sure good things would follow. I hope this doesn't come across as negative because it truly is not. It is just from a fan from 1990 that wants to see what this team truly has, and that is a helluva lot more than we are seeing these days.

Here is my guess. At the beginning of the year the Attack were comfortable with their two goalies and though they liked George they did not think a 16 year old was ready to play over the two older goalies. They arranged for him to go to St. Mary’s, maximize playing time and be listed as an affiliate player. Per the OHF rule book, For Minor to Junior and Junior to Junior Affiliation the Players are restricted to ten (10) games with the Affiliate Team(s) from the beginning of the season to end of their registered Teams season. Therefore, George was limited to 10 games and cannot play the 11th until his registered teams season ends.

 

[HLLYWD99]

Windsor London or Sarnia. Take yoru pick!

Windsor that way I get to see (live) 2 games.

 

[Greg Cowan]

The January 10 trade deadline was the last opportunity for the Owen Sound Attack to officially make Carter George part of the OHL roster and not an AP.

You may recall the Guelph Storm called up Brayden Gillespie on a full-time basis on Jan. 9 after he played 10 games as an associated player from the Ayr Centennials.

Hindsight is 20-20, but at the time Owen Sound had Nick Chenard and Corbin Votary both healthy and with the club. Here's DeGray's quote on keeping Carter in the GOJHL with St. Marys at the deadline:

“It’s the development I think is best for him. He got four games in this year, that’s probably three more games than he and I spoke about last summer,” DeGray said. “Too much too soon for goaltenders is not good.”

Both Chenard and Votary were struggling somewhat at the time (sub .900 save percentages), here's DeGray on the goaltending moving forward from the deadline - for context.

“You could call any team in the league and ask them that question,” DeGray said about whether the team’s goaltending situation is set ahead of the deadline. “You need one of them. I want one of them to really grasp it and push themselves forward to say, hey, we’re riding on my coattails.”

Keep in mind, George may return to the Attack one the St. Marys Lincolns season is done. They're a win away from sweeping the London Nationals in the GOJHL's Western Conference semifinals.

 

[Millpond]

Here is my guess. At the beginning of the year the Attack were comfortable with their two goalies and though they liked George they did not think a 16 year old was ready to play over the two older goalies. They arranged for him to go to St. Mary’s, maximize playing time and be listed as an affiliate player. Per the OHF rule book, For Minor to Junior and Junior to Junior Affiliation the Players are restricted to ten (10) games with the Affiliate Team(s) from the beginning of the season to end of their registered Teams season. Therefore, George was limited to 10 games and cannot play the 11th until his registered teams season ends.

Not to trivialize Sounder 76 comments, but that horse is out of the barn .

For those who attended the '22 draft , Dale Degray spent a great deal of time talking about the team and in particular , Carter George, and his plan to place him in Jr b this season .

That was decided long before training camp in August.

The team is not going to issue an official explanation on Carter George. You'd have a better chance asking Dale at the north mezzanine tonight .

At the trade deadline, with Nick struggling, Corbin was doing quite well.
It was after the deadline he fell ill with mono.

No one could have predicted that would happen.

 

[OSAttackFan88]

Team is under achieving big time this year and it’s really frustrating. The talent on this roster they should put up 4-5 goals a game.. they can’t keep the puck out of their net.

 

[OSAfan]

Watching St. Mary's and London on HockeyTV

St. Mary's sweeps....

 

[OSAttackFan88]

At least we are getting a playoff preview tonight.. 4 quick games because this team can’t play Defense.

 

[Noofgoof]

Man am I glad I didnt waste my money to go tonight lol we are horrendous.

 

[Noofgoof]

If the boys dont figure it out we might as well give them each a broom.. Shes going to be a quick exit from the post season the way things are going. I know they are hoping to have their bodies back which may help but lets be real our goaltending is atrocious and our defence is not good. We just plain and simple are not good enough and that should be on the coaches.

 

[ktownfan]

I watched the game last night and even with Burke, Delmastro and Dillingham you were totally outworked. The only guy that had and body contact was Stewart. Your young guys and even some of your vets got pushed around with no response. I bet you don't want to play Sarnia

 

[leafsrdue]

Coaches/players in Sun Times tried to pass this off as bit of bad luck. Not true, they were outplayed and outworked in all parts of the game. Defence was weak at clearing the zone and around the front of the net. Offensive zone time was limited. Could be an early spring for Attack fans.

 

[ktownfan]

Ya, I didn't see the article, but I had the game on. I wouldn't say it is bad luck, i am amazed that you guys just back out to at least the red line every time Sarnia got the puck. The defensive zone is very confusing and disorganized in my opinion

 

[Bear in the Woods]

Ya, I didn't see the article, but I had the game on. I wouldn't say it is bad luck, i am amazed that you guys just back out to at least the red line every time Sarnia got the puck. The defensive zone is very confusing and disorganized in my opinion

I remember when people used to marvel at a defenseman's first pass.
How important it was to land a perfect first pass to set the tone for the break out.
Really, it's quite a basic skill to learn.

We don't land that pass very often.

 

[Stellar29]

Reading the post game write up and the quote that stands out the most to me was;

"Both Attack assistant coach Sean Teakle and overage defenceman Nolan Seed mentioned scoring chances in the game were narrowly in favour of Sarnia, 17-16, according to the team’s accounting."

What game were they watching? That game was never close.

"At the end of the day, I think we match up pretty well against anybody. I don’t think a lot of teams will want to play us in the playoffs, especially in this barn . . . I think we can beat anybody in a seven-game series,” he said. “Hopefully come playing time we’ll get all our bodies back and healthy and everybody going at the same time.”

The way this team has been playing to close out the season every team in the west is licking their lips to draw the Attack in round one. The team struggles to score, struggles to defend, and struggles on special teams.

"No one in the Attack locker room was pressing the panic button just yet."

If not now, when?

 

[PensFan101]

Not to trivialize Sounder 76 comments, but that horse is out of the barn .

For those who attended the '22 draft , Dale Degray spent a great deal of time talking about the team and in particular , Carter George, and his plan to place him in Jr b this season .

That was decided long before training camp in August.

The team is not going to issue an official explanation on Carter George. You'd have a better chance asking Dale at the north mezzanine tonight .

At the trade deadline, with Nick struggling, Corbin was doing quite well.
It was after the deadline he fell ill with mono.

No one could have predicted that would happen.

I don't have issues with what you said but the bolded I think is still a bad look on management, especially if you look at the information we had available at the deadline.

Even if the choice was to let one of Chenard and Votary try to grab the reins, the team was always just one injury away from being in trouble (an injury can always be, on some level, foreseeable, even if random) and needing George again, even as a backup. I know the team has historically only carried two goalies on A cards most of the season, but I think that has always been a poor policy choice (notwithstanding the recruiting issues and availability of having a third goalie on a Junior B card).

Even if George hadn't performed all that well in his first four starts, I think the flexibility of having him on an A card (and I'm assuming here that even on an A-card, he could still be assigned to St. Mary's) would still be preferrable.

Now that's only one issue and far from the thing that would be turning this team around right now, as I think the consensus is clear the issues run far deeper than whether we can play our 16 year old goalie a few more times, but I think it speaks to the poor managerial decisions that have been made this season.

While I'm generally quite happy with the level of recruitment this team does, as we always seem to have competitive teams and training camps, something has happened (or many somethings) to spoil the mix for this team, and I just can't buy anyone from the team saying staying the course is going to be okay.

Shades of 2010, although this time I think the coaching actually is the problem whereas it wasn't with Mark Reeds.

I'm already at the point where I'm totally okay if our GM isn't back in the fall, but if there aren't major changes over the summer, especially to the coaches, a managerial change will be what I'd most want to see moving forward.

 

[Millpond]

Reading the post game write up and the quote that stands out the most to me was;

"Both Attack assistant coach Sean Teakle and overage defenceman Nolan Seed mentioned scoring chances in the game were narrowly in favour of Sarnia, 17-16, according to the team’s accounting."

What game were they watching? That game was never close.

"At the end of the day, I think we match up pretty well against anybody. I don’t think a lot of teams will want to play us in the playoffs, especially in this barn . . . I think we can beat anybody in a seven-game series,” he said. “Hopefully come playing time we’ll get all our bodies back and healthy and everybody going at the same time.”

The way this team has been playing to close out the season every team in the west is licking their lips to draw the Attack in round one. The team struggles to score, struggles to defend, and struggles on special teams.

"No one in the Attack locker room was pressing the panic button just yet."

If not now, when?

Tail lights in the horizon...

I don't have issues with what you said but the bolded I think is still a bad look on management, especially if you look at the information we had available at the deadline.

Even if the choice was to let one of Chenard and Votary try to grab the reins, the team was always just one injury away from being in trouble (an injury can always be, on some level, foreseeable, even if random) and needing George again, even as a backup. I know the team has historically only carried two goalies on A cards most of the season, but I think that has always been a poor policy choice (notwithstanding the recruiting issues and availability of having a third goalie on a Junior B card).

Even if George hadn't performed all that well in his first four starts, I think the flexibility of having him on an A card (and I'm assuming here that even on an A-card, he could still be assigned to St. Mary's) would still be preferrable.

Now that's only one issue and far from the thing that would be turning this team around right now, as I think the consensus is clear the issues run far deeper than whether we can play our 16 year old goalie a few more times, but I think it speaks to the poor managerial decisions that have been made this season.

While I'm generally quite happy with the level of recruitment this team does, as we always seem to have competitive teams and training camps, something has happened (or many somethings) to spoil the mix for this team, and I just can't buy anyone from the team saying staying the course is going to be okay.

Shades of 2010, although this time I think the coaching actually is the problem whereas it wasn't with Mark Reeds.

I'm already at the point where I'm totally okay if our GM isn't back in the fall, but if there aren't major changes over the summer, especially to the coaches, a managerial change will be what I'd most want to see moving forward.

If the plan is to go 'all in' next year, there's a fairly large gap to be closed this summer .

 

[KFawcett]

Man am I glad I didnt waste my money to go tonight lol we are horrendous.

I know this will bring me some flack but hey I've got broad shoulders so bring it on. On the fence fans like yourself are exactly the reason this organization will not go all in. Because they don't want to lose money for 3 years of a rebuild afterwards.

 

[Stellar29]

Tail lights in the horizon...


If the plan is to go 'all in' next year, there's a fairly large gap to be closed this summer .

Looking objectively towards next season, Guelph and Saginaw project to be very good. London and Windsor return a lot of good players. Windsor still looks pretty strong at forward, London still has a strong blue line. Flint still has a number of nice pieces. Soo and Erie will be better. Returning this Attack team next year and expecting better results would be a mistake.

I'm typically more on the optimistic side but the rose colored glasses are off. This looks like more of a middle of the pack team going into next season as is. I don't think a change behind the bench will be enough. There's going to be roster surgery required I think.

 

[Stellar29]

I know this will bring me some flack but hey I've got broad shoulders so bring it on. On the fence fans like yourself are exactly the reason this organization will not go all in. Because they don't want to lose money for 3 years of a rebuild afterwards.

I understand the point you're making but I don't think it's about being a fence sitter. If you pay $27 per ticket to watch an uncompetitive team get blown out at home you're not going to feel great leaving the rink having paid for the privelage to watch it in person.

 

[Bear in the Woods]

I know this will bring me some flack but hey I've got broad shoulders so bring it on. On the fence fans like yourself are exactly the reason this organization will not go all in. Because they don't want to lose money for 3 years of a rebuild afterwards.

Do you think the business plan is to be mediocre?
It just might be.
Don't take any risks and hope for a winning season every once in a while.
All the while keeping the arena relatively full for most home games.
I am not a fan of the idea.....but you might be right.

 

[OSattackfan]

Do you think the business plan is to be mediocre?
It just might be.
Don't take any risks and hope for a winning season every once in a while.
All the while keeping the arena relatively full for most home games.
I am not a fan of the idea.....but you might be right.

Sounds like the plan the Toronto Maple Leafs use. Have a decent team during the year, fill the seats in the arena, exit play-offs first round, All is good, Bob's your uncle. There is always next year!. LOL

 

[DCruickshank]

3 of our 4 owners are at every game and VERY approachable...there is the answer

 

[leafsrdue]

Horrible time to be a Leafs and Attack fan

 

[DCruickshank]

Horrible time to be a Leafs and Attack fan

Always VERY proud to be an Attack fan...never in doubt and always there for the players!!