Prospect Info: Owen Pickering, 21st Overall, 2022 NHL Draft

[Jacob]

I think Jesse mentioned his ceiling is prime Dumo's defensive/stick work and Matheson's skating/transition ability--just to kinda reference familiar players.

That's a hell of a player. Hope he pans out.

I like his offensive skills. He doesn’t strike me as like, Gonchar on the PP but he looks like he could be a competent PPQB that maybe isn’t elite but has that safety-valve recovery ability so he plays on the top unit.

 

[jmelm]

I think Jesse mentioned his ceiling is prime Dumo's defensive/stick work and Matheson's skating/transition ability--just to kinda reference familiar players.

That's a hell of a player. Hope he pans out.

Who TF is Jesse? Lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Who TF is Jesse? Lol.

Jesse Marshall. The Athletic.

 

[jmelm]

Jesse Marshall. The Athletic.

Ohhh, right.....another Pens writer who doesn't know shit

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, you can just @ him here, Sally Subtweet.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ohhh, right.....another Pens writer who doesn't know shit

I wouldn't say that at all. One of the best out there IMO.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Ohhh, right.....another Pens writer who doesn't know shit

I guess. I think he and Taylor Hasse are the only ones worth paying attention to.

What's the "random dude on a message board who reads HF's prospect threads" take on the kid? Just so I am familiar with an expert opinion.

 

[jmelm]

I guess. I think he and Taylor Hasse are the only ones worth paying attention to.

What's the "random dude on a message board who reads HF's prospect threads" take on the kid? Just so I am familiar with an expert opinion.

I was just hyperbolizing to make a point about the quality of our reporters in general

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I was just hyperbolizing to make a point about the quality of our reporters in general

Truth is, nobody knows a f***ing thing, tbh. I just like getting opinions from people I think have some grasp of the game. Especially when they're in easily digestible chunks my tiny lizard brain can understand.

Shit, the people who literally make a living scouting and owe their livelihood to knowledge of prospects don't know what the f*** they're talking about most of the time.

 

[jmelm]

Truth is, nobody knows a f***ing thing, tbh. I just like getting opinions from people I think have some grasp of the game. Especially when they're in easily digestible chunks my tiny lizard brain can understand.

Shit, the people who literally make a living scouting and owe their livelihood to knowledge of prospects don't know what the f*** they're talking about most of the time.

The only people whose opinion I put much stock in are the actual scouts. HockeyProspect.com is the gold standard. They are by far the closest thing to an actual NHL team's scouting staff (no one else compares). Craig Button is a solid source as well. And of course what is said by our own scouts interviews about our players.

I don't put much stock into guys like Pronman, Wheeler, Cosentino or others who are really "journalists" and not "scouts". I appreciate their work and read it, but I weight their opinions FAR less than the opinions of actual scouts.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The only people whose opinion I put much stock in are the actual scouts. HockeyProspect.com is the gold standard. They are by far the closest thing to an actual NHL team's scouting staff (no one else compares). Craig Button is a solid source as well. And of course what is said by our own scouts interviews about our players.

I don't put much stock into guys like Pronman, Wheeler, Cosentino or others who are really "journalists" and not "scouts". I appreciate their work and read it, but I weight their opinions FAR less than the opinions of actual scouts.

Sure, agreed, but these actual scouts also pick guys like Pouliot over Forsberg, Kapanen over Pastrnak, Patrick over Makar, etc., etc.

Anyway, hope this kid's good. Gonna need the scouting/drafting/development aspects of the organization to be on point over the next decade.

 

[JTG]

The more clips I watch the more I think he’ll be one of the best skating blueliners in the league if/when he plays in the NHL. His skating is perfect.

I agree, and I really don't think he's far off because of that. Hopefully this year back in Jr he can get up to 190 or so. If he does I think he's competing in camp next year.

 

[jmelm]

Sure, agreed, but these actual scouts also pick guys like Pouliot over Forsberg, Kapanen over Pastrnak, Patrick over Makar, etc., etc.

Anyway, hope this kid's good. Gonna need the scouting/drafting/development aspects of the organization to be on point over the next decade.

Oh god, why did you have to remind me. I had just pulled myself back from the proverbial ledge, where I've been since the Kapanen signing. Back into the bathtub with the toaster oven I go.....

And yeah, that was Shero trying to recreate his Nashville Weber + Suter days with Pouliot over Forsberg; and it's was Rutherford's friendship with Kapapen's daddy that led us to draft him. F**k both of those guys (especially Shero).

 

[Zero Pucks]

I wouldn't say that at all. One of the best out there IMO.

I'm not sure why he gets held to such high accord. I don't mind seeing his input, but people sorta treat it like gospel on here. I really don't get it. What's so great?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm not sure why he gets held to such high accord. I don't mind seeing his input, but people sorta treat it like gospel on here. I really don't get it. What's so great?

He does his research and articulates his points well. That alone puts him above 99% of what's out there.

 

[jmelm]

Best Pens prospect since DOC.

 

[Pens x]

Sure, agreed, but these actual scouts also pick guys like Pouliot over Forsberg, Kapanen over Pastrnak, Patrick over Makar, etc., etc.

Anyway, hope this kid's good. Gonna need the scouting/drafting/development aspects of the organization to be on point over the next decade.

There are also GMs that picked Patrick over Makar. Sadly for us, we hired said idiot.

 

[jmelm]

I'm not sure why he gets held to such high accord. I don't mind seeing his input, but people sorta treat it like gospel on here. I really don't get it. What's so great?

What's so great? His name is not Rob Rossi or Josh Yohe.

Comparatively, that puts him in line for a Pulitzer.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Oh god, why did you have to remind me. I had just pulled myself back from the proverbial ledge, where I've been since the Kapanen signing. Back into the bathtub with the toaster oven I go.....

And yeah, that was Shero trying to recreate his Nashville Weber + Suter days with Pouliot over Forsberg; and it's was Rutherford's friendship with Kapapen's daddy that led us to draft him. F**k both of those guys (especially Shero).

Even knowing Shero wasn't gonna take Forsberg on the day of, I was *stunned* he passed on the US-born Trouba.

 

[Power Surge]

You're right, I wouldn't want to make fun of people who sexually assault women, I might hurt their feelings.

So Are you saying then that Pickles is guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Jesse, unlike the majority of hockey writers, actually knows his shit from a systems/analysis standpoint, so that's a legitimate plus, I'd say. From a prospect-standpoint, he actually watches the tape, and has been for several years, which is about as much as anyone can do from an amateur standpoint. So I'd think in any market he'd have a little more cred than just "not a Rossi/Yohe."

Anyways.....odd point of discussion I didn't expect to find here, ha. Hoping Pickering has a big year.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Jesse, unlike the majority of hockey writers, actually knows his shit from a systems/analysis standpoint, so that's a legitimate plus, I'd say. From a prospect-standpoint, he actually watches the tape, and has been for several years, which is about as much as anyone can do from an amateur standpoint. So I'd think in any market he'd have a little more cred than just "not a Rossi/Yohe."

Anyways.....odd point of discussion I didn't expect to find here, ha. Hoping Pickering has a big year.

I like @Jesse for current in season Penguins analysis. I think he hits the nail on the head without being hyperbolic and is typically spot on. His articles age very well if you go look at them. Nobody knows the actual on ice team and play of the Penguins better.

Prospect wise, in the most respectful way, I tend to take him with a grain of salt compared to the guys that monitor these kids for seasons at a time. Agree with the “Pronman is a journalist first, scout second “take but he does gets into rinks and sees these guys live and that matters imo. Hockeyprospect.com = gold standard for public information in my opinion.

Jesse’s prospect work reads more like a fan of the draft/development process with a platform and writing ability. Highlight based, hasn’t tracked these guys for multiple years, etc. Which I have no problem with at all, but I don’t put a ton of actual stock in. It’s well written but I see it more as bonus fluff that’s fun to read.

(Tagging him so he knows we’re talkin bout him )

 

[Peat]

Jesse’s prospect work reads more like a fan of the draft/development process with a platform and writing ability. Highlight based, hasn’t tracked these guys for multiple years, etc. Which I have no problem with at all, but I don’t put a ton of actual stock in. It’s well written but I see it more as bonus fluff that’s fun to read.

How well do scouts track over multiple years though? I'd assumed they were until I saw a stray note from someone in scouting talking about players they might make a note to focus on next year before going back to the older players. Which makes sense. You look at the size of the prospect pools they're scouting after all, even when you shrink it to one or two junior leagues. I can well believe they're tracking obvious first round possibles for a couple of year before the draft but guys like Pickering, who jumped into contention in their draft year, I wonder how much more the scouts know about them.

Anyway I hate the "best parts of Dumo and Matheson combined" projection because that pretty much sounds like a 1D to me and I don't need that sort of hope in my life.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

How well do scouts track over multiple years though? I'd assumed they were until I saw a stray note from someone in scouting talking about players they might make a note to focus on next year before going back to the older players. Which makes sense. You look at the size of the prospect pools they're scouting after all, even when you shrink it to one or two junior leagues. I can well believe they're tracking obvious first round possibles for a couple of year before the draft but guys like Pickering, who jumped into contention in their draft year, I wonder how much more the scouts know about them.

Yeah the obvious one is if I’m a Western scout and I go to watch Matyechuk last year I’m going to get a baseline of where a top ‘23 like Yager is so I can observe how his game develops the following year.

A NHLCSB C grade guy coming into the year like Pickering I do agree with you on. But all these regional scouts, coaches, CHL team employees are constantly talking players. So it’s still nice that Pronman or a HP scout can talk to their coach or a WHL scout for an NHL team that’s like “yeah he is a completely different player this year” or “he’s always been this good” compared to one of us who just sees limited video of this DY year because no one bothered to tape Pickering in his DY minus 1.

It’s one small piece of the puzzle but I do think it’s helpful to know the context of where the player is on their development curve.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Jesse, unlike the majority of hockey writers, actually knows his shit from a systems/analysis standpoint, so that's a legitimate plus, I'd say. From a prospect-standpoint, he actually watches the tape, and has been for several years, which is about as much as anyone can do from an amateur standpoint. So I'd think in any market he'd have a little more cred than just "not a Rossi/Yohe."

Anyways.....odd point of discussion I didn't expect to find here, ha. Hoping Pickering has a big year.

Yeah, I feel like I can sometimes disagree with @Jesse 's thought process, but he at least puts out a solid argument as to why he sees things the way he does, which is really invaluable.