Prospect Info: Owen Beck

[ChesterNimitz]

Great.

That's kinda of irrelevant to the point.

Elite skill players/offense drivers typically rely more on cognitive & dexterity abilities than on size/strength aspects of physical ability... If Beck doesn't gain another pound and becomes an NHL regular playing in a role more focused on creating offense without relying on physical attributes, who cares.

I agree.

My point is I dislike the facile depiction of Beck as being ‘merely’ a two way center who needs his defensive prowess to be an impactful NHL player.

As for size, Beck is about the same size as the Blues’ Robert Thomas but is a more dynamic skater and has a better shot than Thomas.

I think Beck will make his mark in the NHL more based on his offensive skills than his supposed all round game.

 

[Miller Time]

you don't think D need size when you are projected to lead the PP and be a #1-2? I disagree, you need some weight. You can't patrol the blue line at 160lbs Krug is short but is at least 190. Hutson's weight is a concern at the NHL level, it will be for sure. I agree you can be a smaller forward in the NHL though, without question.

Jared Spurgeon has built a pretty good NHL career at under 170lbs...

That said, I think it goes without saying that adding some weight/strength is important for all teenagers making the transition to pro sports. Certainly agree with that.

My comment was that different types of roles have different requirements. A "two way forward" needs to perform tasks that require physical engagement to be impactful & successful in that role.

A player, be it dman or forward, that has the ability to impact the game by virtue of their puck & playmaking skills, doesn't have the same reliance on their physical strength or size... equating the two doesn't hold up even though it's also true that physical strength and size plays an important role for any player in a contact sport, especially in regards to career longevity/withstanding wear and tear.

Hope that clarifies the point I was trying to make

 

[Miller Time]

I agree.

My point is I dislike the facile depiction of Beck as being ‘merely’ a two way center who needs his defensive prowess to be an impactful NHL player.

As for size, Beck is about the same size as the Blues’ Robert Thomas but is a more dynamic skater and has a better shot than Thomas.

I think Beck will make his mark in the NHL more based on his offensive skills than his supposed all round game.

100% agree.

I was less responding to Beck's future potential as I was to the mistake of equating the physical requirements of a two-way forward to that of a playmaker.

And really, if we look at some of the best 2-way or defensive forwards in history, they weren't bigger guys, and one of the most durable NHLers in history (Jarvis) was 5'9, 170 pounds.

The fear over Hutson's size are understandable, but not nearly as concerning or material as some make it out to be

 

[montreal]

For a 20 year old hockey player who’s probably really lean….hes a strong kid as you can see

when I watch him I don't see a jacked or almost 200 lbs as he isn't hard to push off pucks, it's not as bad as say Mesar or Kidney but he needs to add more lower body strength imo.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I agree.

My point is I dislike the facile depiction of Beck as being ‘merely’ a two way center who needs his defensive prowess to be an impactful NHL player.

As for size, Beck is about the same size as the Blues’ Robert Thomas but is a more dynamic skater and has a better shot than Thomas.

I think Beck will make his mark in the NHL more based on his offensive skills than his supposed all round game.

Thomas is a far superior playmaker than Beck, this much was obvious even as juniors.

 

[rik schau]

A contract for a legitimate scoring line forward who will score 40 goals for years.

He's in his 4th season and hasn't come close to 40 yet.

 

[Rapala]

He's in his 4th season and hasn't come close to 40 yet.

I get the sense that Beck is always going to have his detractors like Eller and like Lehkonen.
Instead of celebrating him for what he is people will be complaining about him for what he isn't.
Meanwhile they will completely ignore the fact that teams don't win without players like Owen Beck.

 

[rik schau]

I don't like Molson but he was ready to eat Monahan's contract for a 1st rounder so it's not that bad. Of course it's only throwing $ on the current roster in order to get back into playoff $$$.

Monahan was a win win, it was speculated and rumored that he would not play again and Montreal got a 1st round pick for taking on that contract that in the scenario he does not play, would be covered by insurance and Monahan then took a friendly deal to show himself and Montreal got another pick when he was moved.
They seem more interested in maximizing return on players with contracts than assembling a competitive roster. That is the impression I get from Molson & company, and who can blame them? As long as the are packing them in at the Bell center and raking it in, what's the incentive to make the team a cup contender? to do so, it will cost them more sooner but taking a more passive approach than proactive it saves them money. The priority from Molson & company is not about winning and contending, just ask any of the board of directors, surely there must be some here than know at least one or more, don't know how honest they would be though when answering. Professional PR and marketing and sales is their objectives. Winning a cup would be by happenstance.

 

[rik schau]

I get the sense that Beck is always going to have is detractors like Eller and like Lehkonen.
Instead of celebrating him for what he is people will be complaining about him for what he isn't.
Meanwhile they will completely ignore the fact that teams don't win without players like Owen Beck.

He's looking good in the OHL and before labeling him whatever,lets's see how he does with the big boys. I don't see much but what I do he looks like a player that can contribute all around, the more skillful wingers he has the more points he'll put up.

 

[Rapala]

He's looking good in the OHL and before labeling him whatever,lets's see how he does with the big boys. I don't see much but what I do he looks like a player that can contribute all around, the more skillful wingers he has the more points he'll put up.

I have no issues with that and I'm not necessarily referring to you.
I have my reasons I feel this kid is a no doubter and much of it has to do with his play at the top levels of the CHL.
He has played a Pro game already on the Big Club and he clearly showed the aptitude even then.
We've seen him in preseason we've seen him at the WJHC.
This guy will do a ton of little things the average fan won't even notice and won't get credit for.

 

[rik schau]

he'll need to add mass, strength, work on his shot, so we'll need to see what kind of off-season does he have.

Like most young kids no?

I have no issues with that and I'm not necessarily referring to you.
I have my reasons I feel this kid is a no doubter and much of it has to do with his play at the top levels of the CHL.
He has played a Pro game already on the Big Club and he clearly showed the aptitude even then.
We've seen him in preseason we've seen him at the WJHC.
This guy will do a ton of little things the average fan won't even notice and won't get credit for.

That's the impression I get as well,lets hope we are right. I'm crossing my fingers as we type to go along with me eyes. lol

 

[lamp9post]

I get the sense that Beck is always going to have is detractors like Eller and like Lehkonen.
Instead of celebrating him for what he is people will be complaining about him for what he isn't.
Meanwhile they will completely ignore the fact that teams don't win without players like Owen Beck.

I don't think this will be the case as there were different expectations for Eller and Lehk when they arrived in Montreal. Eller was traded for recent playoff hero Halak and it was hoped that he could become the big 2nd line C we've been needing. Lehk (I believe) was coming off a season in Finland where he won the scoring title and proceeded to score 18 goals in his rookie year in Montreal. I think that set the stage for expectations that both these guys would round into top 6 forwards for us, but it just never happened.

Beck on the other hand has always been viewed as a more defensive, bottom 6 player, and while he may have skills that suggest he could become more than that, I think that would be viewed more as a nice surprise than an honest projection at this point.

 

[Rapala]

I don't think this will be the case as there were different expectations for Eller and Lehk when they arrived in Montreal. Eller was traded for recent playoff hero Halak and it was hoped that he could become the big 2nd line C we've been needing. Lehk (I believe) was coming off a season in Finland where he won the scoring title and proceeded to score 18 goals in his rookie year in Montreal. I think that set the stage for expectations that both these guys would round into top 6 forwards for us, but it just never happened.

Beck on the other hand has always been viewed as a more defensive, bottom 6 player, and while he may have skills that suggest he could become more than that, I think that would be viewed more as a nice surprise than an honest projection at this point.

I hope you are right.

 

[Hannibal]

Really hope he could be our Ridley Greig. Good shutdown, can provide offence and be a pest.

Just hope he would unleash his pest side a bit more. I know he has it in him, but he gotta let it free and be more edgier.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don't think this will be the case as there were different expectations for Eller and Lehk when they arrived in Montreal. Eller was traded for recent playoff hero Halak and it was hoped that he could become the big 2nd line C we've been needing. Lehk (I believe) was coming off a season in Finland where he won the scoring title and proceeded to score 18 goals in his rookie year in Montreal. I think that set the stage for expectations that both these guys would round into top 6 forwards for us, but it just never happened.

Beck on the other hand has always been viewed as a more defensive, bottom 6 player, and while he may have skills that suggest he could become more than that, I think that would be viewed more as a nice surprise than an honest projection at this point.

Lehkonen was/is a top-6 forward, the team just decided to play Drouin and/or Tatar ahead of him in the lineup to the detriment of the team.

 

[CheldishGamibno]

Lehkonen was/is a top-6 forward, the team just decided to play Drouin and/or Tatar ahead of him in the lineup to the detriment of the team.

Lehkonen couldnt even score on a soccer net at times. Hes got better as he got older but absolutely wasn't close to a top 6 forwards for most of his time in Montreal.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Lehkonen couldnt even score on a soccer net at times. Hes got better as he got older but absolutely wasn't close to a top 6 forwards for most of his time in Montreal.

By that measure, Lehkonen still can't "score on a soccer net at times". His shot isn't why he's a top 6 forward, his two way play and ability to get shots off in dangerous areas of the ice are why he's a top-6 forward. If he was sniper he'd be a star player.

Fans just seemed to have strange expectations of him (especially since he didn't get serious PP time) and declared he wasn't a top-6 forward.

 

[lamp9post]

Lehkonen was/is a top-6 forward, the team just decided to play Drouin and/or Tatar ahead of him in the lineup to the detriment of the team.

Lehkonen was not a top 6 forward with Montreal aside from the odd stretch here and there. I'm a big fan of Lehk and glad that he's reaching his potential in Colorado, but that doesn't make him a top 6 when he was with us.

By that measure, Lehkonen still can't "score on a soccer net at times". His shot isn't why he's a top 6 forward, his two way play and ability to get shots off in dangerous areas of the ice are why he's a top-6 forward. If he was sniper he'd be a star player.

Fans just seemed to have strange expectations of him (especially since he didn't get serious PP time) and declared he wasn't a top-6 forward.

I'm curious: by what metric do you consider him to have been a top 6 in Montreal if not goals, points or time on ice?

Lehkonen couldnt even score on a soccer net at times. Hes got better as he got older but absolutely wasn't close to a top 6 forwards for most of his time in Montreal.

Agreed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lehkonen was/is a top-6 forward, the team just decided to play Drouin and/or Tatar ahead of him in the lineup to the detriment of the team.

Ripple effects due to horrible center depth. With Lehkonen, he was bounced all over the roster with no stable spot. That stood out big time with me. They used Lehkonen to shelter their center. Something you can't say for guys like Drouin and Tatar.

By that measure, Lehkonen still can't "score on a soccer net at times". His shot isn't why he's a top 6 forward, his two way play and ability to get shots off in dangerous areas of the ice are why he's a top-6 forward. If he was sniper he'd be a star player.

Fans just seemed to have strange expectations of him (especially since he didn't get serious PP time) and declared he wasn't a top-6 forward.

There are a lot of players who are middle 6F and Lehkonen is one of them. I don't buy this definitive line between top 6F and bottom 6F one bit. The 3rd line is more and more important in the NHL these days. If you want a contender, we need to think top 9F.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Lehkonen was not a top 6 forward with Montreal aside from the odd stretch here and there. I'm a big fan of Lehk and glad that he's reaching his potential in Colorado, but that doesn't make him a top 6 when he was with us.



I'm curious: by what metric do you consider him to have been a top 6 in Montreal if not goals, points or time on ice?



Agreed.

The same metrics that say that he hasn't actually been much better (and in some cases worse) in Colorado than he was in Montreal, he just gets PP time with elite players. Which, you know, includes goals, points and time on ice.

Lehkonen's top 3 seasons of 5v5 production are in Montreal. the only outlier 5v5 TOI season was last year when Colorado had, like, 4 top 6 forwards healthy.

 

[lamp9post]

The same metrics that say that he hasn't actually been much better (and in some cases worse) in Colorado than he was in Montreal, he just gets PP time with elite players. Which, you know, includes goals, points and time on ice.

Lehkonen's top 3 seasons of 5v5 production are in Montreal. the only outlier 5v5 TOI season was last year when Colorado had, like, 4 top 6 forwards healthy.

Which are..?

Lehkonen is getting more overall TOI in Colorado, more PPTOI, has a better shooting % and higher On-Ice Goal % than he ever did in Montreal. You can argue he's a top 6 now. Not sure you can say the same of the seasons where he was putting up 27-28 points while averaging 13-14 minutes per game in Montreal.

 

[Goldthorpe]

I'm 6'3' and 250 pounds, why can't I play in the NHL?
Being 46 and not knowing how to skate shouldn't be a knock against me.
After all you know the proverb, you can't teach fat.

 

[CDN24]

Monahan was a win win, it was speculated and rumored that he would not play again and Montreal got a 1st round pick for taking on that contract that in the scenario he does not play, would be covered by insurance and Monahan then took a friendly deal to show himself and Montreal got another pick when he was moved.
They seem more interested in maximizing return on players with contracts than assembling a competitive roster. That is the impression I get from Molson & company, and who can blame them? As long as the are packing them in at the Bell center and raking it in, what's the incentive to make the team a cup contender? to do so, it will cost them more sooner but taking a more passive approach than proactive it saves them money. The priority from Molson & company is not about winning and contending, just ask any of the board of directors, surely there must be some here than know at least one or more, don't know how honest they would be though when answering. Professional PR and marketing and sales is their objectives. Winning a cup would be by happenstance.

It was known by both Calgary and Montreal that he was going to play. It is because he was healthy to play that they got a 1st for him. Calgary needed to move him because he was healthy otherwise they could have just put him on LTIR and freed up the Cap space for Kadri that way.

No one is giving you a first to take a 1 year contract if they can LTIR their way out of it.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Which are..?

Lehkonen is getting more overall TOI in Colorado, more PPTOI, has a better shooting % and higher On-Ice Goal % than he ever did in Montreal. You can argue he's a top 6 now. Not sure you can say the same of the seasons where he was putting up 27-28 points while averaging 13-14 minutes per game in Montreal.

The fact Lehkonen is getting PP time in Colorado doesn't mean he didn't deserve it in Montreal. Nor does PP time have anything to do with being a "top 6 player". His shooting percentage and on-ice goal % difference are also mostly down to PP time (and playing with superstars).

Lehkonen is the same player he was before, he's just being used properly on a team that can make better use of him.

 

[Prairie Habs]

He's in his 4th season and hasn't come close to 40 yet.

1st year - 5 points in 10 games after winning the Hobey Baker. Not at all a bad faith argument to criticize him for not scoring 40 goals in 10 games...

2nd year - 1 goal in 30 games under DD. Then we got an actual coach and he scored 22 in 37 games under MSL. 49 goal pace over a full 82 games.

3rd year - 26 goals in 46 games before he was injured. On pace for 46 goals in 82 games. 48 goals in 83 games total under MSL.

4th year - 20 goals in 69 games so far. On pace for 24 goals. Quite frankly shocking that a players production would drop when it was said that it typically takes 14 months after the surgery he got to get back to normal.

Anyone who wants to sell low on Caufield would be making a huge mistake right now.