Overdrive & Kyper and Bourne - Leafs Discussion Week of May 20 | Page 5 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Overdrive & Kyper and Bourne - Leafs Discussion Week of May 20

The guy who ran away from Calgary to a market that had 10 fans, because he couldn't stand the pressure of playing McDavid his entire career, is the last guy I'd be listening to for advice on pressure, tbh.

I do think the Leafs need to be careful though - hockey is a fraternity. One big extended group chat. If it starts getting around that Toronto is no longer a desirable place to play, it's no longer lip service. The optics of all these comments coming just a short time before Marner walks for nothing after facing years of abuse and criticism here, is going to continue sending ripples across the league with players and their agents.

Remember - Ryan O'Rielly wanted no part of the circus here. David Perron reportedly felt Ottawa had "less noise" than Toronto and opted to be a Senator. The Leafs are really on the precipous where they need to get ahead of this before it starts really effecting their ability to build a team.
you now for all of the warrior like shit hockey players do physically on the ice, they've gotta be the thinnest skinned p***y athletes on earth. imagine being in any other sport and not wanting to play for Real Madrid, Dallas Cowboys, NY Yankees or LA Lakers. realllll soft stuff
 
Kyper's number 1 reason why Leafs are where they are today? Replacing Lou with Dubas instead of Hunter. The damage Dubas caused is next level my friends.

I don’t know if Hunter would have done any better but they should have let Lou handle the contracts for the core guys and the Leafs should not have signed Tavares or any big free agent before they locked up their core.

I hate hearing about the Leafs internal cap structure when arguing why these guys deserve the contracts they signed.
 
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Many felt that was true when he was here.

Everyone should be willing to admit it in hindsight.

That was 5 wasted seasons.

The progression they made this year (systems, play style, changing players habbits, etc.) should have all happened after the 18-19 season.

Instead the team made zero progression from 19-20 through 22-23.

Swing and a miss with that hire.
Saw it from a mile away. I recall posting that Shanny was putting his balls on the line, not realizing at the time that there is no accountability at MLSEL. Thank God it is only a matter of time for Shanny now as he is on life support.
 
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Yup no gurantee Hunter would have been better but I am pretty sure he could not have been worse. Dubas had his head in the clouds.
I agree Dubas wasn't the answer but the fact that Hunter has yet to get an NHL job and outside of the sure thing draft picks his draft picks were awful.
And I would imagine that most of the Leafs young players would not have extend as Babs is most likely the coach longer than he lasted with Dubas.
 
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I agree Dubas wasn't the answer but the fact that Hunter has yet to get an NHL job and outside of the sure thing draft picks his draft picks were awful.
And I would imagine that most of the Leafs young players would not have extend as Babs is most likely the coach longer than he lasted with Dubas.
Has he been actively looking for an NHL job? I think he’s pretty happy where he is.
 
In an alternate timeline, Shanny picks George McPhee.

Who knows if he still chooses Dubas over him.

Yes, what a colossal mistake it was hiring Dufus.
 
The guy who ran away from Calgary to a market that had 10 fans, because he couldn't stand the pressure of playing McDavid his entire career, is the last guy I'd be listening to for advice on pressure, tbh.

I do think the Leafs need to be careful though - hockey is a fraternity. One big extended group chat. If it starts getting around that Toronto is no longer a desirable place to play, it's no longer lip service. The optics of all these comments coming just a short time before Marner walks for nothing after facing years of abuse and criticism here, is going to continue sending ripples across the league with players and their agents.

Remember - Ryan O'Rielly wanted no part of the circus here. David Perron reportedly felt Ottawa had "less noise" than Toronto and opted to be a Senator. The Leafs are really on the precipous where they need to get ahead of this before it starts really effecting their ability to build a team.

so my thing would be flat out what is the noise? because I also feel they want it both ways. they want the attention because I remember they complain when the fans aren't loud enough. Like what exactly. is "the circus" what is "the noise?"

because honestly, i'd rather these people just open their mouths and say what it is. then dance around the subject. you want to be able to be 'invisible' like you are in the states (which if i were Gary Betteman that would piss me off to no end. trying to grow the game and increase revenue but yah players don't; want to be recognized or talked about)

They want less interview time? open your mouth and say that.

They want the fans not to be so rabid okay cool im pretty sure the countless hundreds of people who travel all up and down the eastern seaboard and the Midwest to support you would want to save some money and the hassle going to the states right now.

You don't want people to show up during home games and be quiet? Cool. then don't whine about how quiet it is that you also can't be motivated. just tell management to make announcements at intervals that "the Maple Leafs would kindly like to remind you to not show passion for the team."

is it because sometimes there are deluded, demented people out there who do crazy crap? That happens everywhere. that's not a Toronto thing - that's a you are a public figure paying a popular sport thing. sorry that crap happened to you that you were famous.

So basically the fanbase is being blamed because for the most part we know what a good game is supposed to look like. We know when a player is not putting on a good performance or having a bad season and simply instead of owning it and going you know what it's a bad season i hope to get it together and i hope people are patient (which i would have to say a good chunk of people probably would appreciate the honesty) it;s oh no i'm fine we're good the fans are mean.

All this fanbase wants is this team to play well, own their poop and win the cup. that's it and apparently that's too much for these people? but it's not too much when they COME to Toronto and leak out their salary demands and preferences where they want to play and the fanbase/media spreads it around because they can't do it where they acutally play because there's not enough traction.

I really have to say this is really something else.
We get kicked on beause we cheer on a franchise who hasn't won anything two years before the moon landing how stupid are we.

We get kicked on because we want them to win the cup just like everyone else, but apparently we want them to win too much? like we're just supposed to go "Oh it's okay that you didn't win this year, and you embarrassed yourself woo, woo woo. woo woo woo."

We get kicked on when we don't show emotion at home games so they can't get motivated

these people can get bent.
 
Need more offense from the blue line, a different guy than JT as the 2C, JT is too similar to Matthews.

More killers...like guys that will hack you, finish checks on you, more speed and more goals from that bottom 6. Our bottom 6 was bloody useless.



I watched this, Shanny seems like a given but I don't think Tree is in any danger.

Last time we thought about the more offense from the blue line we ended up with Kadri for Barrie
 
you now for all of the warrior like shit hockey players do physically on the ice, they've gotta be the thinnest skinned p***y athletes on earth. imagine being in any other sport and not wanting to play for Real Madrid, Dallas Cowboys, NY Yankees or LA Lakers. realllll soft stuff
They do want to play for the big NHL markets. Just not Canadian ones. They have no problem signing with the Rangers, Boston, Philadelphia. It's not cause of the "Pressure". A lot of it has to do with taxes.
 
They do want to play for the big NHL markets. Just not Canadian ones. They have no problem signing with the Rangers, Boston, Philadelphia. It's not cause of the "Pressure". A lot of it has to do with taxes.

They don't rush to sign there either (if it's vs the low tax states) those cities have monster horrible taxes.
 
All I'm saying pressure isn't why guys don't come to Toronto like @WillNy29 is suggesting. Guys have chosen Montreal and Ottawa over Toronto recently. I really do think the core plays a part.

then honestly say it's the core. (but then i'll also admit i have zero filter and this is why i'm not in charge or run anything lol). i think it's crap to blame it on the fans (because where else is this "pressure" coming from).
 
then honestly say it's the core. (but then i'll also admit i have zero filter and this is why i'm not in charge or run anything lol). i think it's crap to blame it on the fans (because where else is this "pressure" coming from).
I don't blame the fans. It's not fully the core either. Taxes, weather, money and winning also play a part.
 
All I'm saying pressure isn't why guys don't come to Toronto like @WillNy29 is suggesting. Guys have chosen Montreal and Ottawa over Toronto recently. I really do think the core plays a part.
Perron made a comment about not wanting the Toronto noise so he went to ottawa. I dont think I remember the last FA of consequence who went to Montreal. I truly believe most hockey players are fragile and dont want to be alphas in this type of market. its a far cry from guys like Modric in RM or Ohtani on LAD because those guys are real superstar athletes including chasing prestige.
 
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I don't blame the fans. It's not fully the core either. Taxes, weather, money and winning also play a part.
I also dont think taxes have the impact people think they do. There's a tax treaty on signing bonuses the caps taxes on signing bonuses for athletes who work out of both USA and Canada at 15%. so take a salary like matthews and he really only makes like 500,000 in salaried income which would be taxable at the rate in ontario BUT on top of that a portion of that is sheltered in RCA and only 42 games + ottawa games are actually charged tax at the rate in Ontario. so your tax bill is way less.

To add perspective to it there's also the concept of time value of money which a lot of financial advisors for big name athletes and celebs will harp on. If you can get majority of your salary upfront it's way better than worrying about tax rates. TMV is essentially the concept the money today is worth more than money tomorrow or PV = FV/(1+r) where PV is present value, FV is future value and r is the intrinsic rate. what this means is the leafs can abuse the hell out of the signing bonus loophole in the CBA to help reduce player taxes and also ensure players get their money upfront rather than over the life of the contract (this means they can invest it right away and have it grow at whatever the market rate is and be that much richer).

Source: Am a qualified CPA and have decent amount of tax experience before switching to financial reporting and core accounting

It could maybe be the weather but come on it's hockey lol you're playing on ice anyways and New York with the same weather and even higher taxes while also not winning is still a huge draw for FAs
 
For those living in Toronto what it’s like there these days ?

The taxes in Ontario truly do suck and that’s a major disadvantage but on the other side they get paid in US dollars and live in Canada.
 
Perron made a comment about not wanting the Toronto noise so he went to ottawa. I dont think I remember the last FA of consequence who went to Montreal. I truly believe most hockey players are fragile and dont want to be alphas in this type of market. its a far cry from guys like Modric in RM or Ohtani on LAD because those guys are real superstar athletes including chasing prestige.

It's definitely a league cultural thing. Pro jockey players are pretty soft when it comes to fan + media pressure. Only a small few seem to actually like playing in popular markets.

Most guys seemingly prefer southern us markets where nobody cares what they do and can spend their free time fishing or at the beach.

That said, the home town connection + money will still bring guys to Toronto one way or the other
 
I don't care who or what you are
Winning a cup in Toronto > Winning it in a y southern American city.

Ya sure a ship is a ship... But... In Toronto you become immortal if ya part of that crew.
 
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