Overdrive & Kyper and Bourne - Leafs Discussion Week of May 20

[Tak7]

Or like most rational people he sees him as being unfairly scapegoated.

I'm sure there's elements of that.

But it's pretty clear that Kypreos has some connection with the Marner camp - he's been pretty steadily campaigning and negotiating on his behalf almost all year now.

Kypreos is basically an HFBoard poster using the usual party lines when trying to defend Marner - what about Nylander, what about Matthews, blame the GM, blame others, etc.

It's not even subtle at this point.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Not sure why the focus is on one.
I blame them all. I think many people here have been saying this core and not this Marner for a while.

They are all a problem.

There are people that are homers for one or more of these guys, but each and every single member of the core is a problem.

They just are.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Kypreos definitely goes out of his way to defend Marner. Something is going on there. They must have a connection or friendship he’s not talking about

I actually thought he said some reasonable things yesterday on their show, but the holdout thing with Mitch and Willy was a bit too much for me. In spirit, it's the same thing regardless of the time that has passed. If KD were only offering $9.5 or $10, he would have been out longer.

But they caved, and speaking of Dubas, they really went in hard on him. Even Bourne was raking him over the coals, and he was sort of the Dubas era plant on that network to counter all the things Kyper and co. took them to task about (mostly the after offer sheet hysterics).

 

[Clark4Ever]

They are all a problem.

There are people that are homers for one or more of these guys, but each and every single member of the core is a problem.

They just are.

Collectively, they are a problem when taking up half of the team's salary cap. Individually, they are great players that can all contribute to winning teams.

 

[stealth1]

All of this may change with a rapidly rising salary cap. Not every small market team will want to spend to the cap. Some can still use their lower/no state tax and low pressure environment to attract players but teams like the Leafs may have more money to spend. Let’s hope they spend it wisely.

Yes it will help. I don't think it changes much in regards to top players changing teams. Guys like McDavid, Draisaitl and MacKinnon likely still stay with their teams.

 

[ToneDog]

Well if it make Kypreos feel better, I’d get rid of them all. Not just Marner. They each need to be placed on another team. Not this one.

Worst case, it will help them sell more/new jerseys.

 

[Stephen]

I actually thought he said some reasonable things yesterday on their show, but the holdout thing with Mitch and Willy was a bit too much for me. In spirit, it's the same thing regardless of the time that has passed. If KD were only offering $9.5 or $10, it would have been out longer.

But they caved, and speaking of Dubas, they really went in hard on him. Even Bourne was raking him over the coals, and he was sort of the Dubas era plant on that network to counter all the things Kyper and co. took them to task about (mostly the after offer sheet hysterics).

You know what’s actually kind of ironic?

In the end, the Leafs got Marner and Nylander as a duo for a combined $16.9 million on their second contracts which averaged out to $8.45 million per. Willie underpaid by a couple mililion by the end of it and Mitch maybe overpaid a million and a bit, baking in big game abilities.

So it wasn’t necessarily even bad for cap. What was actually the problem was the equity issue which opened up Willie for his big $11.5 million current overpay.

Meanwhile, it’s Mitch that feels historically “wronged” because he was only looking at 34.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I'm sure there's elements of that.

But it's pretty clear that Kypreos has some connection with the Marner camp - he's been pretty steadily campaigning and negotiating on his behalf almost all year now.

Kypreos is basically an HFBoard poster using the usual party lines when trying to defend Marner - what about Nylander, what about Matthews, blame the GM, blame others, etc.

It's not even subtle at this point.

A year? Try six.

Every damn day on HC at noon before Mitch signed his current deal, he would say, "Some team will come in and offer sheet him for like a gazillion dollars."

You could've sworn he was getting a cut.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Or like most rational people he sees him as being unfairly scapegoated.

Perhaps, but I think that is more of an issue because of the timing and the circumstances. His contract is up, he refused to negotiate a contract extension during the season, refused to waive his no trade clause, and was a disappointment again in the most crucial games of the playoffs.

If it was Matthews or Nylander in the same situation and Marner was under contract for a few more years, I think the spotlight would be on them instead.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm sure there's elements of that.

But it's pretty clear that Kypreos has some connection with the Marner camp - he's been pretty steadily campaigning and negotiating on his behalf almost all year now.

Kypreos is basically an HFBoard poster using the usual party lines when trying to defend Marner - what about Nylander, what about Matthews, blame the GM, blame others, etc.

It's not even subtle at this point.

Hell, for all we know, you may have been responding to Kyper an have if you criticized his boy.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Kyper's number 1 reason why Leafs are where they are today? Replacing Lou with Dubas instead of Hunter. The damage Dubas caused is next level my friends.

I think that's a fair assessment.

Imagine where this team might be today had the contract negotiations for the big three been handled differently and we held on to Kadri and Hyman.

 

[Trapper]

Worst case, it will help them sell more/new jerseys.

Is that you Pelley? Nice one.

 

[Clark4Ever]

In an alternate timeline, Shanny picks George McPhee.

Who knows if he still chooses Dubas over him.

Yes, what a colossal mistake it was hiring Dufus.

If only we had this:

 

[Rare Jewel]

You know what’s actually kind of ironic?

In the end, the Leafs got Marner and Nylander as a duo for a combined $16.9 million on their second contracts which averaged out to $8.45 million per. Willie underpaid by a couple mililion by the end of it and Mitch maybe overpaid a million and a bit, baking in big game abilities.

So it wasn’t necessarily even bad for cap. What was actually the problem was the equity issue which opened up Willie for his big $11.5 million current overpay.

Meanwhile, it’s Mitch that feels historically “wronged” because he was only looking at 34.

Oh, there's a lot said about how their contracts relate to each other and that goes all the way to the Tavares signing.

I like them both, but I could never understand a $4m gap between Willy and Mitch. But they didn't want him to miss the first 2 months of the season like Nylander did, where he came and was a mess.

With hindsight, a bridge deal for Mitch may have been best. I think he still would've gotten to his current AAV, but it would have been on his 3rd contract with term still remaining. It also would've given the team more space in a flatter COVID cap.

 

[notDatsyuk]

A plausible scenario, but I think this one is all on Tre, he overpaid for snot that wasn’t snotty, and didn’t help the offence……..

The actual deal, yes, but my point was that the impetus for deadline deals (which Tre has said he doesn't like) was from his boss, who was much more likely to be let go if the Leafs didn’t have a better playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

I think that's a fair assessment.

Imagine where this team might be today had the contract negotiations for the big three been handled differently and we held on to Kadri and Hyman.

As Kadri said, you do not let your dogs go. Last night they showed highlights of Hyman finishing his checks against opponents D and I could only laugh when I compared them to Marner hits. Not all hits are the same. LOL.

 

[Rare Jewel]

If only we had this:

View attachment 1040526

You could still get George McPhee now...

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Collectively, they are a problem when taking up half of the team's salary cap. Individually, they are great players that can all contribute to winning teams.

I don't think this is unfair, with the stipulation that none of them can be the alpha dog in a winning room.

 

[The Masters]

If only we had this:

View attachment 1040526

best movie

 

[The Shadow]

One thing Kypreos said I didn’t know. Apparently Lou told Marner and Nylander they are not doing the rookie bonuses like is the norm for high picks. Then a year later they gave the bonus to Matthews and that’s where everyone started to try to get their share. Right from the beginning basically.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Or like most rational people he sees him as being unfairly scapegoated.

As opposed to being fairly scapegoated?

 

[All Mod Cons]

I watched these guys yesterday. I found it interesting Kipper used the word that I've been using for the last 4 or 5 years. Damage.

Kyle did so much damage in such a short period of time, that there was no way we could recover in the Matthews era.

I also thought the good moves/bad moves part was a good exercise.

For me, in no particular order, the bad moves that killed us were:

1. Marchment for Malgin - just made no sense whatsoever.
2. The Kadri trade
3. The Marleau trade
4. The Johnsson and Kapanen contracts
5. Letting Jared McCann be unprotected
6. Samsonov and Mrazek
7. The Mrazek trade
8. Not extending Hyman - definitely one of the worst 3 moves. No hindsight was needed here
9. The whole contract situation - whether signing Tavares, or the other 3. Depends how you want to look at it
10. Constant trade downs
11. The 2017 and 2019 draft
12. The 2020 draft - absolutely tragic
13. Saying no thanks to Perry


Good moves:
1. Hyman for McKegg
2. McCann for Hallander and a 7th
3. Stolarz
4. Tanev
5. Drafting Knies - best move of all
6. Signing Benoit - amazing signing and extension

 

[ToneDog]

One thing Kypreos said I didn’t know. Apparently Lou told Marner and Nylander they are not doing the rookie bonuses like is the norm for high picks. Then a year later they gave the bonus to Matthews and that’s where everyone started to try to get their share. Right from the beginning basically.

Was glad to hear Kyper rip Dubas for giving up a 1st to dump Marleau. Thought they should have eaten the last year of the contract since they were not a serious contender.

 

[Tak7]

Is that you Pelley? Nice one.

"We're not here to sell jerseys. But have you considered buying a new Auston Matthews 34 jersey that now has the shiny new C on it? Available today at RS Apparel"

 

[WillNy29]

One thing Kypreos said I didn’t know. Apparently Lou told Marner and Nylander they are not doing the rookie bonuses like is the norm for high picks. Then a year later they gave the bonus to Matthews and that’s where everyone started to try to get their share. Right from the beginning basically.

I can vouch for this knowing some people who know Marner. Lou poisoned the well with his archaic stance here.

Im so upset that Shanny tried to get Kelly McCrimmon here but he had no interest in working with Mark Hunter and Kyle DuBas. Mark Hunter f***ing sucked and so did Dubas; Jim Nill is what people thought Mark Hunter was when it came to scouting and talent evaluation, what a waste of draft picks