Ovechkin vs Laine comparison.

[Psych0dad]

In terms of style, perhaps......in terms of talent/impact he's not in either's ballpark

You are mistaken but you will obviously need to come to that conclusion by yourself. Laine has to show you the error of your ways. He will.

Of course nobody gets 191 pts today. That's not the bar.

 

[Plural]

You are mistaken but you will obviously need to come to that conclusion by yourself. Laine has to show you the error of your ways. He will.

Of course nobody gets 191 pts today. That's not the bar.

For a guy who feels so high and mighty about his hockey knowledge, you sure have almost none of your facts or stats right.

 

[EhlersChin]

He could have played in the pre-lockout season as an 18 year old.

Don't pretend you have more knowledge of Ovechkin or Mario, I was watching hockey actively when they both started their careers. I can almost guarantee I saw more of Ovechkin pre-NHL than you did. And definitely seen a lot more of Laine than you have, prior to and in the NHL.

Mario in my opinion the greatest of all time.

Good one. Go ahead and show your proof bud. I predict more excuses, lol.

 

[Psych0dad]

For a guy who feels so high and mighty about his hockey knowledge, you sure have almost none of your facts or stats right.

What are you talking about?

I trust my knowledge but I don't remember or know every single thing. I welcome correction as everyone should.

What stats have I quoted wrong? Why is it about me when the topic is Laine?

Just watch and enjoy, he will ne special. If it really bothers you that much that I have been calling his development with confidence and been on much more correct path than most, I don't know why you take an issue with it.

What about confidence bothers you?

When/if Laine stops projecting to be the player I think, I will have to say I predicted wrong (if its not due to injury). So far so good though.

 

[Psych0dad]

Good one. Go ahead and show your proof bud. I predict more excuses, lol.

We already covered that in several posts.

 

[EhlersChin]

We already covered that in several posts.

It's becoming a regular occurrence with you. It's getting embarrassing and tiring seeing you type walls of excuses. Be better bud.

Did Ovi win a Calder, take your time and do you due diligence.

 

[Psych0dad]

It's becoming a regular occurrence with you. It's getting embarrassing and tiring seeing you type walls of excuses. Be better bud.

Did Ovi win a Calder, take your time and do you due diligence.

This is just a load of unnecessary noise.

You know the arguments and age difference . Appealing to calder, ignoring age and everything, just makes your argument silly.

 

[Sam Spade]

Laine unfortunately gets stuck behind Wheeler (who's arguably a top-3 winger in the game) which does draw back from his ice-time.

And Alex Ovechkin got “stuck behind” no one, ever.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'm still shocked that Laine didn't score 60+ goals last season like his fans said he would, with the whole same shooting percentage but taking about a 100 more shots thing.

Maybe next year.

 

[HTFN]

What are you talking about?

I trust my knowledge but I don't remember or know every single thing. I welcome correction as everyone should.

What stats have I quoted wrong? Why is it about me when the topic is Laine?

Just watch and enjoy, he will ne special. If it really bothers you that much that I have been calling his development with confidence and been on much more correct path than most, I don't know why you take an issue with it.

What about confidence bothers you?

When/if Laine stops projecting to be the player I think, I will have to say I predicted wrong (if its not due to injury). So far so good though.

Didn't you say that Laine was better than Ovechkin internationally?

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Didn't you say that Laine was better than Ovechkin internationally?

Well he has been so far than same aged Ovechkin was. IIHF world cup included.

 

[Hasa92]

I'm still shocked that Laine didn't score 60+ goals last season like his fans said he would, with the whole same shooting percentage but taking about a 100 more shots thing.

Maybe next year.

How many people even said that? Many people have claimed that Laine will score 60+ goals sometime in his career, i still believe that he will.

 

[thunder16]

You are mistaken but you will obviously need to come to that conclusion by yourself. Laine has to show you the error of your ways. He will.

Of course nobody gets 191 pts today. That's not the bar.

You mean 212, and that's still the bar if you want to be known as one of the best ever! Seems that you set your own bar.

The bar is to surpass what has already been achieved!

 

[grieves]

People seem to have short memories. Let's clear some things up.

1)

Post from jepjepjoo:

--

Lets compare Laine's 2nd season to Ovi's first:

2017-2018 Winnipeg Jets had 274 pp opportunities
2005-2006 Washington Capitals had 495 pp opportunities

Ovechkin had 6:43 pp, toi 14:05 ev toi, season total: 1,751:22
Laine had 3:00 pp toi, 13:28 ev toi, season total: 1,351:25

hypothetically if Laine had Ovechkin's ev+pp TOI he would have scored 69 goals 108pts

Of course this isn't a fair comparision, but it puts the 05-06 season into context."
​

Conclusion: There is more data to hockey than just PPG. Just look at that post and let it really sink in before you open your mouth. Laine has not been double-shifted on the PP, which is something I believe Ovi was doing from the start (correct me if I'm wrong).

For most of his NHL career, Laine has been playing in a very non-functional offensive line. Everyone yells how he plays on a stacked team but his line is void of any chemistry whatsoever. Whenever this line is broken up, Laine goes on a tear. Last time it was with Stastny as he broke the teenage point-streak record (to clarify: No other teen in NHL history has scored in 14 consecutive games) and started chasing the Rocket seemingly out of nowhere.



2)

According to the advanced stats community, NHL experience is not very important. The game is the same everywhere, just the opponents change. Ovi had plenty of practice with the Caps before his first NHL appearance. Physical maturity is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, which is why we go by age and not some voodoo "NHL experience". Please understand this now. Or if you don't agree with it, understand that you are going againt people who actually calculate these things for a living. You have every right to do so, but I think that is stupid.

If you ignore age completely, please don't write anything further about this subject until you have read up on it.



3)

I also see stylistically Laine as some kind of Mario-Ovechkin hybrid. No-one is saying that Laine is at the level of prime Ovi, but there is a good chance he gets there, even though it may FEEL like this is an impossible feat for Laine who seems to suck (because low TOI and being a teenager).

e: Maybe Mario-Stamkos hybrid moreso.

 

[Alf the dwarf]

People seem to have short memories. Let's clear some things up.

1)

Post from jepjepjoo:

--

Lets compare Laine's 2nd season to Ovi's first:

2017-2018 Winnipeg Jets had 274 pp opportunities
2005-2006 Washington Capitals had 495 pp opportunities

Ovechkin had 6:43 pp, toi 14:05 ev toi, season total: 1,751:22
Laine had 3:00 pp toi, 13:28 ev toi, season total: 1,351:25

hypothetically if Laine had Ovechkin's ev+pp TOI he would have scored 69 goals 108pts

Of course this isn't a fair comparision, but it puts the 05-06 season into context."
​

Conclusion: There is more data to hockey than just PPG. Just look at that post and let it really sink in before you open your mouth. Laine has not been double-shifted on the PP, which is something I believe Ovi was doing from the start (correct me if I'm wrong).

For most of his NHL career, Laine has been playing in a very non-functional offensive line. Everyone yells how he plays on a stacked team but his line is void of any chemistry whatsoever. Whenever this line is broken up, Laine goes on a tear. Last time it was with Stastny as he broke the teenage point-streak record (to clarify: No other teen in NHL history has scored in 14 consecutive games) and started chasing the Rocket seemingly out of nowhere.



2)

According to the advanced stats community, NHL experience is not very important. The game is the same everywhere, just the opponents change. Ovi had plenty of practice with the Caps before his first NHL appearance. Physical maturity is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, which is why we go by age and not some voodoo "NHL experience". Please understand this now. Or if you don't agree with it, understand that you are going againt people who actually calculate these things for a living. You have every right to do so, but I think that is stupid.

If you ignore age completely, please don't write anything further about this subject until you have read up on it.



3)

I also see stylistically Laine as some kind of Mario-Ovechkin hybrid. No-one is saying that Laine is at the level of prime Ovi, but there is a good chance he gets there, even though it may FEEL like this is an impossible feat for Laine who seems to suck (because low TOI and being a teenager).

e: Maybe Mario-Stamkos hybrid moreso.

 

[Zamuz]

--

Lets compare Laine's 2nd season to Ovi's first:

2017-2018 Winnipeg Jets had 274 pp opportunities
2005-2006 Washington Capitals had 495 pp opportunities

Ovechkin had 6:43 pp, toi 14:05 ev toi, season total: 1,751:22
Laine had 3:00 pp toi, 13:28 ev toi, season total: 1,351:25

hypothetically if Laine had Ovechkin's ev+pp TOI he would have scored 69 goals 108pts

Of course this isn't a fair comparision, but it puts the 05-06 season into context."

--

So far Laine is ahead of Ovi. You can slice it and dice it any way you want but it won't change this fact. Maybe the situation changes in the future, maybe not. People develop individually anyway so the age comparison is only the best guess we have.

If we would actually know the stage of physical development for these guys, we could do a more accurate comparison. I suspect Laine would separate himself even more in this case having the larger frame and injury history, but this is pure speculation.

Why aren't you people considering this and just wiping it under the carpet?
I'm curious what you think of this? if no one replies I take that as you just want to ignore real facts.

this thread dies quickly

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Why aren't you people considering this and just wiping it under the carpet?
I'm curious what you think of this? if no one replies I take that as you just want to ignore real facts.

this thread dies quickly

This thread might die quickly but it burned bright

 

[cowboy82nd]

I know for sure that Laine will easily end up with more goals than Ovechkin when both are retired. And I also know the exact number by how many.. Let me tell you... By 256 goals!!!

This is a fact and can't be changed. He also for sure surpasses Ovechkin in all time player rankings as most dangerous goal scorer of modern era. Laine might also represent space era then! Fact also.

Oh please mighty dwarf lord, please show us mere mortals some mercy. And since you can see into the future, can you also give me the next 10 Stanley Cup winners? Thank you oh great one.

 

[Mulletman]

Why aren't you people considering this and just wiping it under the carpet?
I'm curious what you think of this? if no one replies I take that as you just want to ignore real facts.

this thread dies quickly

Yeah there's no denying that Ovechkin benefited a lot from powerplay Points during his rookie season, especially from getting extra powerplay assists since he played so much on the powerplay. 52 out of Ovechkin's 106 Points were on the powerplay. That leaves 54 non powerplay Points. Compare that to Laine who had 31 powerplay Points and 39 non powerplay Points last season.

Winnipeg had only 64 powerplay goals the whole season while Washington had 72 powerplay goals in 2005-06. So Ovechkin was involved in 52/72 powerplay goals which is 72,2 % of all possible powerplay Points. While Laine was limited to being involved in 31/64 powerplay goals which is only a measly 48,4 % of all possible powerplay Points. Considering the fact that Laine led the whole League in powerplay goals last season, despite not getting that much icetime on the powerplay, shows that he was clearly being misused by that clown of a coach Paul Maurice...

 

[cowboy82nd]

You are mistaken but you will obviously need to come to that conclusion by yourself. Laine has to show you the error of your ways. He will.

Of course nobody gets 191 pts today. That's not the bar.

What is the bar??? Didn't Gretkzy score 212 points in a season? If so, shouldn't that be the bar? You know, the highest point total in league history?

 

[Halberdier]

I'm still shocked that Laine didn't score 60+ goals last season like his fans said he would, with the whole same shooting percentage but taking about a 100 more shots thing.

Maybe next year.

You were not shocked when he shot 40+ goals with lowest TOI ever in recorded history? Playing with 2nd line that just doesn't work, and not used like Ovie on PP.

If you followed him him carefully, you would know that just somehow his production exploded when he finally got out ELL line. You know, freaking Andrew Copp become his center and all in the sudden he started to produce like no tomorrow.

So far it seems that it's not so crucial who he plays with as long as he doesn't play with same line as both Ehlers and Little. Given him Little sans Ehlers and it works somewhat, give him Ehlers without Little and it might work pretty OK. Give him both, and it just doesn't work.

Make him LW as he was always prior to NHL, give him Scheifele + Connor/Ehlers/Perreault/Wheeler, and just enjoy the ride.

He has the best G/60 and about the best GPG ad well. So yeah, he can score allright. Just waiting for Maurice to acknowledge that fact.


And btw. I don't think any of his fans expected him to score 60 goals yet on his sophmore season. He has huge limbs and is so lanky and so raw and nothing like eg. 20-year-old Ovi was. It will take still some years before he enters his prime, though he'll hit that sooner than Wheeler, I expect.

I expect him to hit 60 and maybe more than once, but certainly I was not expecting that to happen before he hits 22 or something. Though you never know about Laine.

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Oh please mighty dwarf lord, please show us mere mortals some mercy. And since you can see into the future, can you also give me the next 10 Stanley Cup winners? Thank you oh great one.

Winnipeg, Tamba, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Leafs, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Coyotes.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Winnipeg, Tamba, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Leafs, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Coyotes.

Thank you oh, wise one. And is that suppose to say Tampa, or is the NHL getting a new team? I truly bow down to your excellence!!!

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Thank you oh, wise one. And is that suppose to say Tampa, or is the NHL getting a new team? I truly bow down to your excellence!!!

You shall be grateful that I took you in my favour and answered your question. And about Tamba, it's a new dwarf/midget team that will be a true contender to break winnipegs dynasty for next 27 years.

 

[Psych0dad]

Didn't you say that Laine was better than Ovechkin internationally?

Yeah. Since like 16. Laine has been better than Ovechkin every year so far.

In international play etc.

I expect the trend to continue, no real reason why it would not.