Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Dessloch]

To appease those upset, I say we remove ENG from the history books... Oh wait, that gets him closer to the record.

Exactly my point. The point is not about Ovechkin getting the record, its about the empty netters and being classless about it. Gretzky did the same cherry picking pretty much so I do not hold that against Ovi in that sense.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

The point is that not every player gets equal chances during their careers to get empty netters. If you play for Arizona for 20 years you will get significantly less chances at empty nets than if you play for a power house team for 20 years. And add the cherry picking on top of that, and you get stats that does is skewed.

Well sure, but does why that matter?

 

[Firsov99]

Will be interesting to see how Ovi’s career ends. He still can score goals, but is tied in points around 50th in the league. I mean, Crosby has more goals than him so far. He’s limping by, though not surprising given he’s like two year older than Crosby, right?

It’s not just the age difference. Ovi’s tires have less thread left considering that he has played 267 more games than Crosby. Despite the fact that they both entered the league at the same time! Plus one has to consider the physical game by Ovi.

He is top ten in goals now. We can call this “limping by”.

 

[Koolboss]

The lamest record has to be the most empty net goal lol
Way to go Ovi

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

The point is that not every player gets equal chances during their careers to get empty netters. If you play for Arizona for 20 years you will get significantly less chances at empty nets than if you play for a power house team for 20 years. And add the cherry picking on top of that, and you get stats that does is skewed.

So you are saying he is not one of the greatest goal scorers ever?

 

[Dessloch]

Well sure, but does why that matter?

It matters in every discussion you have when you just put raw numbers for players against each other without giving the context.

So you are saying he is not one of the greatest goal scorers ever?

Not at all, there is nothing in my quote saying anything like that. I am just saying his stats are more impressive than his actual impact, and the same goes for 99, 66 and 87 who also have a ton of empty net points.

I just dont see empty net points as in indication of greatness and thus would prefer the all time lists to not have empty net points counted. And I dont enjoy the cherry picking moments at the end of games to feed players.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It’s not just the age difference. Ovi’s tires have less thread left considering that he has played 267 more games than Crosby. Despite the fact that the both entered the league at the same time! Plus one has to consider the physical game by Ovi.

He is top ten in goals now. We can call this “limping by”.

I don’t see anything wrong with calling his game limping. Lemieux was limping by in his elder years while still producing. Ovi still produces, just not dynamically. Ovi’s all around game has slowed with age, like every player.

 

[andrjusha]

The lamest record has to be the most empty net goal lol
Way to go Ovi

Is it lamer than empty net point? Do you know who leads in those this season and is second all-time?

 

[Fallschirmyager]

The point is that not every player gets equal chances during their careers to get empty netters. If you play for Arizona for 20 years you will get significantly less chances at empty nets than if you play for a power house team for 20 years. And add the cherry picking on top of that, and you get stats that does is skewed.

Why would they? You know who else doesn't get regular chances at empty netters? 4th line pluggers on good teams.

 

[BallardEra]

The lamest record has to be the most empty net goal lol
Way to go Ovi

Gretzky still owns it.

Ovie, Marchand and Sid will be chasing hard for it by the time they retire.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

I mean it's whatever. I've accepted it a long time ago, but 2 empty netters in one game is lol worthy no matter what.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

It matters in every discussion you have when you just put raw numbers for players against each other without giving the context.

I just think criticizing the best goal scorer of all time because of empty net goals is a weird argument.

Gretzky still owns.

Ovie, Marchand and Sid will be chasing hard for it by the time they retire.

I don’t think a single NHL player chases that record consciously.

 

[Dessloch]

I just think criticizing the best goal scorer of all time because of empty net goals is a weird argument.

I just gave you the reason, and if you think its good when you compare players against each other to have 100s of empty net points adding to the favor of some players to pimp them up, then thats fine! But I wont agree with it at all.

And if you read my posts I did not criticize only Ovechkin, but empty net cherry picking for everyone, but mentioned the biggest ones in 99, 66, 8 and 87. Its just the extreme cherry picking the Caps & Ovie does that reminds me of the topic, I´ve had the same opinion for the last 25 years at least

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I just gave you the reason, and if you think its good when you compare players against each other to have 100s of empty net points adding to the favor of some players to pimp them up, then thats fine! But I wont agree with it at all.

Fair enough.

 

[Koolboss]

Is it lamer than empty net point? Do you know who leads in those this season and is second all-time?

Not Ovi

 

[Hivemind]

99 away from #99

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

I just gave you the reason, and if you think its good when you compare players against each other to have 100s of empty net points adding to the favor of some players to pimp them up, then thats fine! But I wont agree with it at all.

I don’t think any of that really matters though. EN goals or not Ovechkin is arguably the best, or at least one of the best goal scorers ever. People will always argue about different eras or different peaks or stats or whatever. But nobody will say because of his EN goals he isn’t one of the best goal scorers of all time.

 

[Dessloch]

I don’t think any of that really matters though. EN goals or not Ovechkin is arguably the best, or at least one of the best goal scorers ever. People will always argue about different eras or different peaks or stats or whatever. But nobody will say because of his EN goals he isn’t one of the best goal scorers of all time.

Agreed. And I never made that argument either, its not in my posts, and I dont think I´ve seen any one else make it either.

 

[Firsov99]

I don’t see anything wrong with calling his game limping. Lemieux was limping by in his elder years while still producing. Ovi still produces, just not dynamically. Ovi’s all around game has slowed with age, like every player.

I understand “limping by” as “barely making it”. He has undeniably slowed down considerably, but he is still number one in points on his team. Maybe it’s a stretch to call it “limping by”. But thank you for clarifying your point of view on this.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I understand “limping by” as “barely making it”. He has undeniably slowed down considerably, but he is still number one in points on his team. Maybe it’s a stretch to call it “limping by”. But thank you for clarifying your point of view on this.

I guess I meant limping by in the context of whom ovi, or Lemieux, were as players in their prime. Not in comparison to the league.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

I understand “limping by” as “barely making it”. He has undeniably slowed down considerably, but he is still number one in points on his team. Maybe it’s a stretch to call it “limping by”. But thank you for clarifying your point of view on this.

Ovechkin and Crosby have similar trajectories the last 4 years. Neither are dominating the league like they used to but both are still doing what they’ve always done well. However, it’s not enough to make their teams contenders and they keep getting bounced in the first round.

 

[DearDiary]

It’s not just the age difference. Ovi’s tires have less thread left considering that he has played 267 more games than Crosby. Despite the fact that the both entered the league at the same time! Plus one has to consider the physical game by Ovi.

He is top ten in goals now. We can call this “limping by”.

Ovechkin's physical game is overstated. While he throws a lot of hits, he isn't taking punishment around the net or anywhere along the boards because he's usually around the middle of the ice or swoops in late to catch a rebound around the net. If you look at him play shift by shift, there's many shifts where he won't make physical contact with another player.

 

[Firsov99]

I guess I meant limping by in the context of whom ovi, or Lemieux, was as a player in their prime. Not in comparison to the league.

Naturally. By this standard for sure. I see what you are saying.

 

[norrisnick]

The point is that not every player gets equal chances during their careers to get empty netters. If you play for Arizona for 20 years you will get significantly less chances at empty nets than if you play for a power house team for 20 years. And add the cherry picking on top of that, and you get stats that does is skewed.

None of the players leading any of the all time statistical rankings spent 20 years on bottom dwelling teams. So to pursue them on a team capable of winning games isn't really as big of a deal as you're making it out to be.

 

[Demandedace]

I absolutely love to visit this thread after an empty net goal. It's even better when he gets two!