Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[DRW895]

Doesn't he also already hold the most 45 goal+ seasons as well?
Most 50 goal seasons is still 9? Gretzky/Bossy?

Since 2019

 

[YippieKaey]

How do previous years have any bearing on how the Capitals’ choice to hold an aging and slow Ovechkin out for the entirety of every powerplay so that fanboys can get all hot and bothered when 1/20 one-timers go in has hurt their conversion rate this year?

Caps PP is at 39% for the month of March. It was a lot worse due to missing two key pieces (Bäckström & Oshie) but for the last ten or so years the Caps have had the second best powerplay in the league, due to having the best powerplay goal scorer of all time on it.

Basically what you're saying right now is that the 80s Oilers sucked because Gretzky was a puckhog. Very bad logic friend.

I'm pointing out a fact, you calling it complaining is more indicative of your bias than anything else..

I don't think that it's a good team strategy to use any forward in the league for the PP for that much TOI plain and simple.



Like he is the only option out there for the caps, get serious.



Yes you are right other teams completely let other top scorers stay open on the PP and never even think about checking them.



Why not he isn't any more productive than other elite players on the PP.

It's clear that you don't apply the same logic but I forgot the goal of the caps is for Ovechkin to get the goals record right?

He is the all time leader in PP goals. For the last 110 years of NHL noone has been more productive on the PP. Not Lemieux, not Bossy, not Hull, not Gretzky.

You are just factually incorrect.

 

[ovikovy817]

Ovechkin has 11 seasons with 45+ goals
Gretzky and Bossy have 9
Lemieux and Dionne have 8
Everyone else has at most 6

Ovechkin has been relatively unlucky in getting to 50, 2019/20 being the prime example

Don't remember the exact season but Ovi was @49 goals and in game 82 the Devils were down by 1 or 2 at the end of the game and didn't pull their goalie just to not let Ovie score the 50th.

Wasn't it in the Cup season?

 

[YippieKaey]

He doesnt play D or do anything else other than wait for PP opportunities. Makes its easy to avoid injuries.

He's third in the league in hits since they started counting. Try again

 

[wetcoast]

He is the all time leader in PP goals. For the last 110 years of NHL noone has been more productive on the PP. Not Lemieux, not Bossy, not Hull, not Gretzky.

You are just factually incorrect.

In raw terms of scoring goals on the PP yes.

In efficiency considering his TOI he doesn't really stand out as others are just as productive given usage.

Mario was the "better" PP player for what it is worth as well.

 

[YippieKaey]

In raw terms of scoring goals on the PP yes.

In efficiency considering his TOI he doesn't really stand out as others are just as productive given usage.

Mario was the "better" PP player for what it is worth as well.

How do you measure "efficiency"? You're making up non-quantifiable stats to counter raw numbers. Already lost im afraid.

 

[wetcoast]

How do you measure "efficiency"? You're making up non-quantifiable stats to counter raw numbers. Already lost im afraid.

It's not really all that hard as you are looking at raw numbers and one would expect that considering the TOI and SOG that Ovi has on the PP.

You are also using non-quantifiable the wrong way as this can be measured really easily.

Leadership is non quantifiable.

but you are right you do seem to be lost.

 

[YippieKaey]

It's not really all that hard as you are looking at raw numbers and one would expect that considering the TOI and SOG that Ovi has on the PP.

You are also using non-quantifiable the wrong way as this can be measured really easily.

Leadership is non quantifiable.

but you are right you do seem to be lost.

Why aren't all players getting as much TOI as Ovi on the pp? And SOG is a sign of being able to find a shooting lane since they are not just "shots" but "shots on goal". SOG is a skill.

Raw numbers don't need quantifying. That's the beauty of it.

 

[Demandedace]

Why aren't all players getting as much TOI as Ovi on the pp? And SOG is a sign of being able to find a shooting lane since they are not just "shots" but "shots on goal". SOG is a skill.

Raw numbers don't need quantifying. That's the beauty of it.

Wetcoast is one of those hilarious people who think that higher time on ice automatically equals higher goals. They don’t seem to realize that there is a bell curve for time on ice and production, it’s pretty sad to be honest but it gets thrown around all of the time

 

[YippieKaey]

Wetcoast is one of those hilarious people who think that higher time on ice automatically equals higher goals. They don’t seem to realize that there is a bell curve for time on ice and production, it’s pretty sad to be honest but it gets thrown around all of the time

He should become a head coach and play my fat ass for 60 minutes a game then. I'd become a millionaire

 

[alphahelix]

Gretzky had a stretch with 250 goals in 3 seasons (321 in 4 seasons).

And none of the comparisons ever consider including playoffs where he had another 100+.

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

He may be the top scorer with the best longevity of all time though. I don’t know if anybody else was able to score at this level at 35+. Lemieux did some crazy stuff though.

 

[Beau Knows]

Closing in on 1400 points. Where does he finish on the all-time list? I'll say around 8-9th with 1700ish.

1.	Wayne Gretzky*	1979-99	2857
2.	Jaromír Jágr	1990-18	1921
3.	Mark Messier*	1979-04	1887
4.	Gordie Howe*	1946-80	1850
5.	Ron Francis*	1981-04	1798
6.	Marcel Dionne*	1971-89	1771
7.	Steve Yzerman*	1983-06	1755
8.	Mario Lemieux*	1984-06	1723
9.	Joe Sakic*	1988-09	1641
10.	Phil Esposito*	1963-81	1590

 

[AD1066]

Gretzky had a stretch with 250 goals in 3 seasons (321 in 4 seasons).

And none of the comparisons ever consider including playoffs where he had another 100+.

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

He may be the top scorer with the best longevity of all time though. I don’t know if anybody else was able to score at this level at 35+. Lemieux did some crazy stuff though.

Ovechkin left Bossy in the dust several years ago.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

You mean the Mike Bossy who led the NHL in goals all of twice?!?

Ovie's done it 9 times.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Gretzky had a stretch with 250 goals in 3 seasons (321 in 4 seasons).

And none of the comparisons ever consider including playoffs where he had another 100+.

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

He may be the top scorer with the best longevity of all time though. I don’t know if anybody else was able to score at this level at 35+. Lemieux did some crazy stuff though.

Bossy played in a really easy era to score goals. All those 50 goal seasons are a neat factoid, but check out how many players were scoring 50+ in those seasons. Bossy lead the League in Goals twice, was 2nd three times and 3rd two times. He was very consistent until injuries shortened his career but he didn't separate himself as much from his peers.

 

[Midnight Judges]

50 goals in Bossy's day is like scoring 38 in Ovie's NHL.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Gretzky had a stretch with 250 goals in 3 seasons (321 in 4 seasons).

And none of the comparisons ever consider including playoffs where he had another 100+.

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

He may be the top scorer with the best longevity of all time though. I don’t know if anybody else was able to score at this level at 35+. Lemieux did some crazy stuff though.

Here's my take. Ovechkin in the 80s would've scored 80-100 goals per season at his peak against the shitty goalies that these guys played against in the 80s.

 

[Doctor No]

Here's my take. Ovechkin in the 80s would've scored 80-100 goals per season at his peak against the shitty goalies that these guys played against in the 80s.

Significant evolution in goaltender equipment over the past forever has allowed today's goaltenders to be consistently less "shitty". For instance, the improvement in facial technology has made the butterfly save style (specifically, the putting of one's head in the middle of the net when going into the butterfly) a feasible style. Goaltenders used to try and get in position and then tuck their head behind a screen to protect their face.

More generally, everything's been evolving. If you start Ovechkin's career in the 1980s, he gets 1980s skates, 1980s sticks, 1980s goons, and a 1980s fitness regimen.

 

[wetcoast]

Wetcoast is one of those hilarious people who think that higher time on ice automatically equals higher goals. They don’t seem to realize that there is a bell curve for time on ice and production, it’s pretty sad to be honest but it gets thrown around all of the time

Nice straw man you built there buddy but do you really think that it's not easier to score on the PP than at ES?

Also invoking the bell curve might give you props (and score you some likes from the regular echo chamber) in some circles it adds zero to the discussion in real actual terms don't you think?

 

[Demandedace]

Nice straw man you built there buddy but do you really think that it's not easier to score on the PP than at ES?

Also invoking the bell curve might give you props (and score you some likes from the regular echo chamber) in some circles it adds zero to the discussion in real actual terms don't you think?

The bell curve is a fact lol but go ahead thinking you can give a player 30min a game and expect them to keep scoring at the same (or higher) rate

 

[wetcoast]

The bell curve is a fact lol but go ahead thinking you can give a player 30min a game and expect them to keep scoring at the same (or higher) rate

I didn't say that higher ice time would automatically lead to more goals so why did you quote me as saying that?


Where exactly did I say that and exactly what evidence are you actually bringing forth here when you say

They don’t seem to realize that there is a bell curve for time on ice and production

It's great that you mention the "bell curve" but either you don't know exactly what it means or you are misplacing it's relevance here.

sometimes things can be really simple.

Tale 2 "equally gifted offensive scorers" and give one more TOI and more PP TOI and would anyone really expect in the exact same conditions to have them both score the same?

The elephant in the room in Ovechkins PP TOI and usage and it's pretty obvious.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The bell curve is a fact lol but go ahead thinking you can give a player 30min a game and expect them to keep scoring at the same (or higher) rate

They'll still put up more raw numbers even if their rates go down lol

 

[alphahelix]

Here's my take. Ovechkin in the 80s would've scored 80-100 goals per season at his peak against the shitty goalies that these guys played against in the 80s.

Funny how lots of these 80s “guys” played until they were almost 40 so some of them were in the league with Ovechkin, and many of them faced the same goaltenders that Ovechkin did.

For example, Mario Lemieux scored a hat trick and a bunch of 2 goal games against Martin Brodeur, but Ovechkin never scored a hat trick on Martin Brodeur — despite the fact that Ovechkin got to play against him when he was old and senile on a shoddy Devils team & Lemieux did it in the heart of the dead puck era when the Devils were the Trappiest team in history.

There are many examples like this to draw from. You “era effect” goofballs are acting like the 90’s is the 1890’s. The same guys played and slayed across these vastly different “eras”. Mario Lemieux had 35 goals in 43 games in 2002-03.

A 33 year old Jaromir Jagr scored 54 goals to a 20 year old Ovechkin 52 in 2005-06.

Jagr outscored Ovechkin when he was out of his prime and old. If you go back just a few years before that, he was putting up more points in a season than Ovechkin could ever Dream of, & he was ALWAYS 2nd fiddle to Lemieux.

Was that a completely different era? Or was it literally the exact same season.

Ridiculous Argument that is not backed up by any data or reality.

A washed up 36 year old Teemu Selanne scored 48 goals to 21 year old Alex Ovechkin‘s 46.

When Teemu was that age, he was playing in his rookie season and putting up 76 goals on goalies like Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy. Scoring on them a lot more than Ovechkin ever did. Hell, when Teemu was FORTY (40) he had .42 goals per game (31 goals) to Ovechkin’s .40 goals per game.

We don’t need to break out the quantum algebra. These guys played in the same era and were better scorers against the same goalies.

DUMB. ARGUMENT.

 

[Caps8112]

Gretzky had a stretch with 250 goals in 3 seasons (321 in 4 seasons).

And none of the comparisons ever consider including playoffs where he had another 100+.

Ovechkin might get the most Regular Season goals of all time but he’s not going down as the best goal scorer. Its hard to argue against Mike Bossy being better, and Hull is quite similar to him.

He may be the top scorer with the best longevity of all time though. I don’t know if anybody else was able to score at this level at 35+. Lemieux did some crazy stuff though.

And the counter argument to all that is Gretzky shot on guys who stood up wearing newspapers. Games were 7-6 every Night. Players didn't train and regularly smoked. Mike bossy stats look great because he wasn't able to play the last half of his career that would have almost certainly dragged his numbers down. None of those guys have faced the elite goaltending of today, the defensive strategies of today or the fact that every guy in the league can actually play and has skill. Ovi passed jagr in almost 500 less games. The hate in this guy is amazing. "He stands and one spot" and no one can stop him. " he's a one trick pony" yet he is one of the leagues fiercest physical players. "He doesn't pass" yet he will likely finish in the top 50 in the department he is so terrible in, as long as they don't keep mojo on his line.

 

[YippieKaey]

I didn't say that higher ice time would automatically lead to more goals so why did you quote me as saying that?


Where exactly did I say that and exactly what evidence are you actually bringing forth here when you say



It's great that you mention the "bell curve" but either you don't know exactly what it means or you are misplacing it's relevance here.

sometimes things can be really simple.

Tale 2 "equally gifted offensive scorers" and give one more TOI and more PP TOI and would anyone really expect in the exact same conditions to have them both score the same?

The elephant in the room in Ovechkins PP TOI and usage and it's pretty obvious.

Do PP goals count as much as ES goals? And if you think Ovis time on the PP makes up for Gretzky, Hull & Bossy playing in the much much much more high scoring 1980-1995 period, you´re straight up ill-informed. So go ahead and look at the difference in average goals scored per game in the 80s to early 90s and compare it to Ovis time in the league.

Face it, your argument sucked. It's ok to still prefer Lemieux, had he been healthy he would probably have the record. But he wasn't. Too bad.

Funny how lots of these 80s “guys” played until they were almost 40 so some of them were in the league with Ovechkin, and many of them faced the same goaltenders that Ovechkin did.

For example, Mario Lemieux scored a hat trick and a bunch of 2 goal games against Martin Brodeur, but Ovechkin never scored a hat trick on Martin Brodeur — despite the fact that Ovechkin got to play against him when he was old and senile on a shoddy Devils team & Lemieux did it in the heart of the dead puck era when the Devils were the Trappiest team in history.

There are many examples like this to draw from. You “era effect” goofballs are acting like the 90’s is the 1890’s. The same guys played and slayed across these vastly different “eras”. Mario Lemieux had 35 goals in 43 games in 2002-03.

A 33 year old Jaromir Jagr scored 54 goals to a 20 year old Ovechkin 52 in 2005-06.

Jagr outscored Ovechkin when he was out of his prime and old. If you go back just a few years before that, he was putting up more points in a season than Ovechkin could ever Dream of, & he was ALWAYS 2nd fiddle to Lemieux.

Was that a completely different era? Or was it literally the exact same season.

Ridiculous Argument that is not backed up by any data or reality.

A washed up 36 year old Teemu Selanne scored 48 goals to 21 year old Alex Ovechkin‘s 46.

When Teemu was that age, he was playing in his rookie season and putting up 76 goals on goalies like Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy. Scoring on them a lot more than Ovechkin ever did. Hell, when Teemu was FORTY (40) he had .42 goals per game (31 goals) to Ovechkin’s .40 goals per game.

We don’t need to break out the quantum algebra. These guys played in the same era and were better scorers against the same goalies.

DUMB. ARGUMENT.

But Ovi scored 65 one season which is more than any of your example players have scored in the "modern" era except Selänne in 92-93 which is the highest scoring season in NHL history and goals per game wise very much part of the 80s mold. Mogilny also scored 76 goals that season. 14 players scored 50 goals and 5 players scored 60+. Quite the cherrypicking going on here.

If you insist on using single season numbers as an example of all-time greatness, which i would advise against for the sake of logic.