Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Nasti]

Gretzky's goalscoring began slowing down much earlier than that.

Not as quickly as after he passed Howe.

 

[The Panther]

I'm going with zero.

There's nothing to really indicate anything other than age and a less favorable goal scoring environment slowed him down.

His goal scoring had been dropping off steadily for 3-4 seasons and that trend simply continued.

I just checked back into this thread and I was wondering why there are 5000 posts about Wayne Gretzky rather than us just celebrating Ovechkin's achievement? If this Gretzky-guy wasn't that great a goal scorer, y'all are really obsessed with him.

I wasn't going to say anything about Gretzky, but I have to respond to this post:

You are very wrong.

Gretzky's goal scoring slowed a bit from mid-season in 1986-87 until September 1991 from its previous heights, but he was still pretty elite. From January 1987 to spring 1991, he scored 197 goals in 333 games, or 47 goals per season. His first three years with L.A., he averaged exactly the same -- 47 goals per 80 games. (And he was fourth in ES goals those first three seasons.)

Everything changed for Gretzky after the Gary Suter hit in September 1991. This hit wasn't an isolated thing -- he had suffered two back injuries previously, in March 1990 and in April 1990 (playoffs). The Suter hit evidently reaggravated those and definitively ended Gretzky's prime.

Every season prior to autumn 1991, Gretzky had paced for well over 100 ES points per 80 games played. To put this into perspective, a 100-ES point season has occurred 15 times in NHL history, and Gretzky had 10 of them. Nobody else has had more than 1.

Suddenly in 1991-92, he finished behind Ray Ferraro (!) in ES points, with a paltry 63. Approximately a 50% drop from his previous average, overnight.

The scoring environment in the NHL had absolutely nothing to do with this, as scoring wasn't dropping in 1992 or 1993 (actually went up in '93) or 1994 from c.1990-91 levels (or 1987).

Gretzky's age might have been a small factor, but he was only 30 when the Suter hit occurred.

Okay, I just had to clarify that...

 

[NatusVincere]

Fair points but I guess my point is that there is a valid perception by some that Ovi cares too much about individual achievements than winning and it's not unfair to say that most other players wouldn't get the TOI and usage without the reputation which has surpassed utility compared to the past.

And you know that he don’t care? Maybe you have no clue about what he cares and what not (that’s the only fact here who you maybe should think about talking about xenophobia). And funny enough are the comparisons with Steven playoff choker Stamkos. Stammer should thanks god aka Yzerman every day that he brought a number of ice-cold, hard-drinking Russians into the organization.

 

[The Panther]

Nothing against Steve Stamkos, whom I love, but thank God for Ovechkin because can you imagine if Ovi didn't exist --- we'd be looking back at the 2009 to 2020 era as the 'Stamkos goals era', which is a bit sad...

Anyway, I've said it many times and I'll say it again: Athletes like Howe and Ovechkin are androids, not humans. To play that long at a high level, while missing a paltry number of games through their salad years, is really unbelievable.

I realize Ovechkin had athletic parents and was thus genetically predisposed to being strong and healthy, but does anyone know how he takes care of himself, in terms of training / conditioning? Does he have a strict diet / athletic regimen like MacKinnon? Or is he like Schwarzenegger in The Terminator where he just pulls out his robotic finger / joint / bone and mechanically inserts a new one? It's probably the latter because I'm pretty sure he's not human.

 

[Voight]

Nothing against Steve Stamkos, whom I love, but thank God for Ovechkin because can you imagine if Ovi didn't exist --- we'd be looking back at the 2009 to 2020 era as the 'Stamkos goals era', which is a bit sad...

Anyway, I've said it many times and I'll say it again: Athletes like Howe and Ovechkin are androids, not humans. To play that long at a high level, while missing a paltry number of games through their salad years, is really unbelievable.

I realize Ovechkin had athletic parents and was thus genetically predisposed to being strong and healthy, but does anyone know how he takes care of himself, in terms of training / conditioning? Does he have a strict diet / athletic regimen like MacKinnon? Or is he like Schwarzenegger in The Terminator where he just pulls out his robotic finger / joint / bone and mechanically inserts a new one? It's probably the latter because I'm pretty sure he's not human.

AFAIK, not really. He's never been a gym rat or one to spend the off season training every day.

 

[gtrower]

Fair points but I guess my point is that there is a valid perception by some that Ovi cares too much about individual achievements than winning and it's not unfair to say that most other players wouldn't get the TOI and usage without the reputation which has surpassed utility compared to the past.

The race for the record is exciting but it still doesn't take away the reality that a lot of neutral observers have observed in his overall level of play.

This narrative that you are desperate to push is just embarrassing man. He’s less than 12 months removed from being the Heart favorite at the all star break.

He’s currently carrying an injury-ravaged squad with (at points) over half their cap out to Play-off contention at 37 while playing on a line with two career 0.63 and 0.49 ppg players. 100% more goals than the next highest on his team and 40% more points.

We get it. You don’t like the player. You’ve made that extremely clear. You don’t need to repeat yourself anymore. Make your own thread to discuss what you’re trying to discuss or simply put this one on ignore. I think we’d all (including you) be happier for it. Again, a milestone thread isn’t the place for it.

 

[wetcoast]

And you know that he don’t care? Maybe you have no clue about what he cares and what not (that’s the only fact here who you maybe should think about talking about xenophobia). And funny enough are the comparisons with Steven playoff choker Stamkos. Stammer should thanks god aka Yzerman every day that he brought a number of ice-cold, hard-drinking Russians into the organization.

We never know what a player feels but we do watch them all of the time and can actually see right?

I also didn't agree with the Stammer comments its was more on Ovi's actual play.

The Xenophobia card is ridiculous because many of the same commentators were the ones voting for Ovi in awards and all star voting so the "consistency" just isn't there.

 

[abo9]

itshard for me to even imagine Gretzky NOT being gracious.

In fact, I picture both of them being close to overly humble on that day.

To be fair, it's in the NHL's best interest to have Gretzky there.

Even if he wants nothing to do with it, they'll probably extend a gracious cheque and all expenses covered as he travels around with Ovechkin

 

[TJHKY]

 

[WarriorofTime]

This whole "OVECHKIN IS HURTING HIS TEAM!" narrative is so laughable. He's lapped his next closest teammate in goals, he's 10 ahead in points. Ovechkin playing the way he plays and being who he is will be the only reason the Capitals even get within sniffing distance of a wildcard spot.

 

[shtorm2005]

This whole "OVECHKIN IS HURTING HIS TEAM!" narrative is so laughable. He's lapped his next closest teammate in goals, he's 10 ahead in points. Ovechkin playing the way he plays and being who he is will be the only reason the Capitals even get within sniffing distance of a wildcard spot.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I know "no politics" in this topic but the narrative has changed.

Stop before the "but" next time. Thank you.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[Fantomas]

Fair points but I guess my point is that there is a valid perception by some

"valid perception by some" is doing some heavy hearsay lifting here.

 

[Hanji]

Funny that they actually spoke of what they have been seeing eh?

Also there is a reason you usually never pull out the "xenophobia card" and another ones comment should and doesn't change that reason does it?

Did CBC harp on Gretzky's non-physicality when he was breaking records?
Of course not.

All players have weaknesses. But you rarely/never see announcers talk about them when a player achieves something as rare as is; while STILL being a huge on-ice asset to the Caps as an old man.
Doing as such is beyond unprofessional.


This is Hank Aaron chasing Babe Ruth in modern times. Records of cultural and national icons are being broken and certain elements of society can't handle it.
It's not difficult to tell when pushback and downplaying is dressed up as "hey, I'm just speaking of what I'm seeing on the ice!", "All he cares about is records!".
Hank Aaron dealt with that same stuff too, among other things.

 

[wetcoast]

Did CBC harp on Gretzky's non-physicality when he was breaking records?
Of course not.

Gretzky was never physical so why bring it up?

All players have weaknesses. But you rarely/never see announcers talk about them when a player achieves something as rare as is; while STILL being a huge on-ice asset to the Caps as an old man.
Doing as such is beyond unprofessional.

The usage this season is at an all time high and pretty obvious to see, so when a commentator comments on it, binging out the xenophobia card is not only weak but it's also extremely unprofessional even for a HF poster one would think.

This is Hank Aaron chasing Babe Ruth in modern times. Records of cultural and national icons are being broken and certain elements of society can't handle it.
It's not difficult to tell when pushback and downplaying is dressed up as "hey, I'm just speaking of what I'm seeing on the ice!", "All he cares about is records!".
Hank Aaron dealt with that same stuff too, among other things.

False equivalency on the main level here that doesn't need to be explained does it?

Secondly Hank was still a real superstar with 1 HR away until his final 3 seasons which in the first one he passed Babe Ruth and was still an elite overall player the year before.

 

[wetcoast]

"valid perception by some" is doing some heavy hearsay lifting here.

Not really the eye test is backed up by the statistical record and the response which is never about the actual first post that brought it all up but lets carry on and watch the goals.

 

[MeHateHe]

Did CBC harp on Gretzky's non-physicality when he was breaking records?
Of course not.

You're wrong. There was lots of hoo-haw about his failure to engage in physical play, and comments about how others were more "well-rounded" because they hit, fought or played more in the corners, etc.

But even then, there is simply no comparing Gretzky's singular dominance of the game in his prime. He was winning scoring races with 150% of the points of the second place player. He was simply miles ahead of every other player on the ice at the time and in my mind comparing his impact to anyone current (certainly) is ludicrous. And it's that singular dominance on the offensive side of the game that might have earned him a pass on his refusal to be physical - but it did not.

[Posters] on this thread can sing the praises of their guy all they want, but using a comparison to Gretzky to give that guy a pass on the weaknesses of his game is ahistorical at best.

 

[andrjusha]

So OV got another NHL star of the week,
its his 18th, leads Crosby with 12, McDavid with 8, hockey-reference tracks since 2006

NHL Three Stars of the Week | Hockey-Reference.com

Listing of NHL Three Stars of the Week

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Hanji]

Gretzky was never physical so why bring it up?


The usage this season is at an all time high and pretty obvious to see, so when a commentator comments on it, binging out the xenophobia card is not only weak but it's also extremely unprofessional even for a HF poster one would think.

False equivalency on the main level here that doesn't need to be explained does it?

Secondly Hank was still a real superstar with 1 HR away until his final 3 seasons which in the first one he passed Babe Ruth and was still an elite overall player the year before.

No false equivalency as the circumstances are very similar.
It's telling considering good ole' boy Stamkos was immediately brought into the conversation.

This should come as no surprise, though, considering the CBC also let Don Cherry spew his xenophobia for decades. He was only taken off the air when he criticized fellow Canadians.


Ovechkin is chasing NHL and Canadian cultural icons. Thinly veiled xenophobia is par-for-the-course in these circumstances; all sports everywhere. The caboose of society can't stand it. History always repeats itself.

Funny how the CBC was the only broadcast doing as such? Coincidence?
It's unfortunate.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Ovechkin should cheat on offense, Ovechkin cosplaying as a Selke-Award finalist isn't going to help his team. Those aren't his strengths. They need somebody to give them some offense, and he's still the best Capital at doing that.

 

[BallardEra]

Why Alex Ovechkin still has a long ways to go to catch Gordie Howe's goal records

 

[Fantomas]

Why Alex Ovechkin still has a long ways to go to catch Gordie Howe's goal records

This is so desperate, LOL.

 

[wetcoast]

No false equivalency as the circumstances are very similar.
It's telling considering good ole' boy Stamkos was immediately brought into the conversation.

This should come as no surprise, though, considering the CBC also let Don Cherry spew his xenophobia for decades. He was only taken off the air when he criticized fellow Canadians.


Ovechkin is chasing an NHL and Canadian cultural icons. Thinly veiled xenophobia is par-for-the-course in these circumstances; all sports everywhere. The caboose of society can't stand it. History always repeats itself.

Funny how the CBC was the only broadcast doing as such? Coincidence?
It's unfortunate.

At least the next guy is being a bit more honest about it and your Hank Aaron comparison is just a complete false equivalency on so many different levels aside from the obvious one and that xenophobia and racism are 2 different things while they are still in the same neighborhood of ignorance.

Ovechkin should cheat on offense, Ovechkin cosplaying as a Selke-Award finalist isn't going to help his team. Those aren't his strengths. They need somebody to give them some offense, and he's still the best Capital at doing that.

 

[tfwnogf]

Depends how he's feeling once he beats the record, but I don't think he slows down once he breaks it. He'd be 105 away from 1000; that's a pretty big motivator to keep going. If he's potting 35-40 goals a year when he breaks it, I think he gives it his best shot for 1000.