Ovechkin & Crosby - race to 1,400 points

[NJDevilsFan21]

Crosby is well over 1500 points today without injuries and lockouts. Which is kind of a shame because not only would we be speculating on what OV's new record would be, but also Crosby passing Jagr for #2 in overall points or even the longshot of being only the second to break 2000 career points.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Good stuff OP!

 

[PM88RU]

Just illustrates how much better crosby is

Or how durable Ovechkin is. Who cares if Sid was more effective in PPG, if in the end of the day both have brought the similar number of points to their teams during same number of seasons. One just had more goals, other one-passes.

Durability is a big part of the game. One should give Ovi credit for playing through minor injuries and tiredness and helping his team, while other one wasn’t able to.

Both are in the tier of the best hockey players ever, surely the best of their generation (Geno right after them), why don’t we just enjoy observing the sunset of their great careers without endless comparing?

Deep respect to both.

 

[Dallas Winston]

Or how durable Ovechkin is. Who cares if Sid was more effective in PPG, if in the end of the day both have brought the similar number of points to their teams during same number of seasons. One just had more goals, other one-passes.

Durability is a big part of the game. One should give Ovi credit for playing through minor injuries and tiredness and helping his team, while other one wasn’t able to.

Both are in the tier of the best hockey players ever, surely the best of their generation (Geno right after them), why don’t we just enjoy observing the sunset of their great careers without endless comparing?

Deep respect to both.

Cool ovechkin was more durable. That still doesn't change the fact that Crosby is clearly the better player

 

[PROGFAN66]

Alex Ovechkin may end up being the all time leader in goals scored, power play goals, hits and shots on goals.

In goals created Alex Ovechkin has lead the league five times and Sidney Crosby twice.

Alex Ovechkin has lead the league three times in totals goals for while on ice and Sidney Crosby once.

Crosby is a central figure taking face offs, the better playmaker and has a career better average points per game than Ovechkin. Crosby probably plays the overall better 200 foot game than Ovechkin which includes the defensive end.

I have been going back and forth for years with these two.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Ovechkin and Crosby reached the 1,400 point milestone four days apart. They now rank 21st and 22nd all-time in scoring.

Here's a chart showing the daily progression of their career point totals from the start of their careers:

View attachment 529453

Here's a table showing the leads, day by day (greater than zero means Ovechkin is in the lead):

View attachment 529454

I will attempt to put together a table that looks at this by game (rather than on a daily basis).

NOTE - based on my past experience when posting these tables, I'll make this disclaimer. This is just statistical trivia. It's not intended to be an argument for or against either player. If you think these charts are disparaging to your favourite player, get some fresh air.

What’s the R^2? 0.995?

Great job, btw. This is awesome!

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Get to the goals, good man. The goals!!

 

[Hockey Outsider]

It's amazing how the gap has stayed so close over the years. Are there any another star players that came into the league at the same time and were neck and neck in points for so long?

It's a good question. Maybe Luc Robitaille and Brett Hull? Both debuted in 1987, both were finished after 2006, and their career totals were really close (1,394-1,391). But their pattern of points season by season wasn't as close as it is here (Hull took a few years to get going while Robitaille had a flying start).

 

[The Cannon of Tesoma]

Someone should set a poll for this pair, at last.

 

[haseoke39]

Nice work, OP!

 

[max21]

It’s amazing how both exceeded their expectations and are still going strong

 

[Gurglesons]

Alex Ovechkin may end up being the all time leader in goals scored, power play goals, hits and shots on goals.

In goals created Alex Ovechkin has lead the league five times and Sidney Crosby twice.

Alex Ovechkin has lead the league three times in totals goals for while on ice and Sidney Crosby once.

Crosby is a central figure taking face offs, the better playmaker and has a career better average points per game than Ovechkin. Crosby probably plays the overall better 200 foot game than Ovechkin which includes the defensive end.

I have been going back and forth for years with these two.

Yeah, I often think about how if Ovechkin truly is “the best goal scorer” of all time. How is that a negative on Crosby who is the only player who outscored him twice while not necessarily being viewed as a goal scorer?

 

[paracord]

Alex Ovechkin may end up being the all time leader in goals scored, power play goals, hits and shots on goals.

In goals created Alex Ovechkin has lead the league five times and Sidney Crosby twice.

Alex Ovechkin has lead the league three times in totals goals for while on ice and Sidney Crosby once.

Crosby is a central figure taking face offs, the better playmaker and has a career better average points per game than Ovechkin. Crosby probably plays the overall better 200 foot game than Ovechkin which includes the defensive end.

I have been going back and forth for years with these two.

There's not a GM in the NHL that would take an 18 yr. old Ovechkin over an 18 yr. old Crosby, based on what we know today.

 

[paracord]

Yeah, I often think about how if Ovechkin truly is “the best goal scorer” of all time. How is that a negative on Crosby who is the only player who outscored him twice while not necessarily being viewed as a goal scorer?

Plus, he's not the best goal scorer of all time. Top 3, but not the best. Mario Lemieux is the best.

 

[PM88RU]

There's not a GM in the NHL that would take an 18 yr. old Ovechkin over an 18 yr. old Crosby, based on what we know today.

That being truth, with the same conditions, there’s hardly a GM who would suffer greatly of having Ovi instead of Sid. True professionals should know how to use any tools in the toolbox, not the only ones that are easier to use and widely considered user-friendly.

And in terms of importance for the franchise, If only Ovi finishes first in goals total, I bet he’ll bring to the Caps more fame with “the first ever Cup+records” set than 3 Cups Sid has, after all is said and done.

 

[bobholly39]

It’s amazing how both exceeded their expectations and are still going strong

Ridiculous question maybe but - did Crosby actually exceed expectations? I'm not so sure the answer is yes. Expectations for him weren't as far off as those for Lindros - which were both completely ridiculous. New Gretzky, etc.

Possibly a top 5 player of all-time - but exceed expectations, or just met them? I'd say it might be more the latter.

 

[Shareefruck]

Ridiculous question maybe but - did Crosby actually exceed expectations? I'm not so sure the answer is yes. Expectations for him weren't as far off as those for Lindros - which were both completely ridiculous. New Gretzky, etc.

Possibly a top 5 player of all-time - but exceed expectations, or just met them? I'd say it might be more the latter.

I'd say met offensive expectations, but exceeded all-around game expectations.

 

[paracord]

That being truth, with the same conditions, there’s hardly a GM who would suffer greatly of having Ovi instead of Sid. True professionals should know how to use any tools in the toolbox, not the only ones that are easier to use and widely considered user-friendly.

And in terms of importance for the franchise, If only Ovi finishes first in goals total, I bet he’ll bring to the Caps more fame with “the first ever Cup+records” set than 3 Cups Sid has, after all is said and done.

Errrr, what? What GM picks players based on the "fame" they'll bring? 3 cups vs. 1 cup is the reality that actually happened (so far).

If Ovi breaks Gretzky's record, it would be more fame for HIM, than for the Caps organization.

"True professionals" can't make a one dimensional goal scoring machine into a 200 foot, 2-way center with massive hockey sense and playmaking ability. The latter is needed more to win cups.

 

[paracord]

Ridiculous question maybe but - did Crosby actually exceed expectations? I'm not so sure the answer is yes. Expectations for him weren't as far off as those for Lindros - which were both completely ridiculous. New Gretzky, etc.

Possibly a top 5 player of all-time - but exceed expectations, or just met them? I'd say it might be more the latter.

I mean, I don't think anyone could have thought Crosby was going to be better than Gretzky or Lemieux...Really, at #5 (which I don't think is far off), you'd have to say he couldn't have done much better.

He's definitely not better than 66 or 99 but they live in a different universe than anyone else.

 

[max21]

Just illustrates how much better crosby is

It literally doesn’t though? It shows how back and forth they’ve been throughout their respective careers

 

[PM88RU]

Errrr, what? What GM picks players based on the "fame" they'll bring? 3 cups vs. 1 cup is the reality that actually happened (so far).

If Ovi breaks Gretzky's record, it would be more fame for HIM, than for the Caps organization.

"True professionals" can't make a one dimensional goal scoring machine into a 200 foot, 2-way center with massive hockey sense and playmaking ability. The latter is needed more to win cups.

That’s the thing. Yes, Crosby is more valuable for the team success as he is a 1c.
Is that what you wanted to hear? I’m not trying to deny that.

But the hockey is being played by the whole team, which includes wingers, defensemen and a goalie. And every position has its own responsibility.
To win you need everyone to step in and give as much input as he can.

Why don’t you accuse defenceman or a goalie of not playing 200ft game ? Maybe because they’re not supposed to, by default?

I see Ovi as an unique tool for a GM. If you master how to use his talent, you won’t ever regret. And seeing how he drives Caps and how much energy he brings to the team and have been doing so for amazing 17 year span , I do not think Caps GM suffers from the fact he hasn’t happened to choose Crosby instead.

To finish, GM has surely different tasks in his
job. And the fame of franchise means the fan base increase, jerseys, season ticket holders and other benefits for the team. In that area what has been done for the franchise, Ovi as a record holder will surely surpass Crosby, I think, no offense.

 

[pi314]

Cool ovechkin was more durable. That still doesn't change the fact that Crosby is clearly the better player

Funny how all the “durable” players are floaters - Marleau, Kane, Ovechkin, Kessel, etc.

Hard to get injured when you don’t block shots or battle along the boards.

 

[DearDiary]

Funny how all the “durable” players are floaters - Marleau, Kane, Ovechkin, Kessel, etc.

Hard to get injured when you don’t block shots or battle along the boards.

I talk about this all the time, Ovechkin is not a physical player. He makes human contact maybe 3 or 4 times a game either throwing a hit or getting bumped off the puck. When he's not doing that, he has his lawn chair down watching his teamates battle for the puck.

Compare him to a guy like Hornqvist who's physical 4 times a shift, battling in the corners, in front of the net, taking a hit to make a play etc.

 

[pezpunk]

Funny how all the “durable” players are floaters - Marleau, Kane, Ovechkin, Kessel, etc.

Hard to get injured when you don’t block shots or battle along the boards.

Oops, someone doesn't know what they're talking about, tsk tsk! Should have done some basic research or maybe watched Ovechkin play once or twice in your life.

Ovechkin is 4th all-time in career hits.

Floater.

Lol.

He's also blocked 434 shots, which is about double the number of goals Hornqvist has scored.

EDIT: oh man i looked up how many blocked shots defensive paragon Hornqvist has .... he has 475. Practically the same number as OV.

Keep just making stuff up, haters.

 

[SeanConn]

Who else clicked on the 9-2 boxscore of the Caps/Flyers game only to be disappointed to see Ovi only scored 1?

4 more to 50, come on Ovi!