Out of Town Thread: Part 14

[sandviper]

Energy and overall confidence thing...

1) Lost to the Habs in epic fashion
2) Lost Hyman, Anderson, Thornton and was not able to improve the team due to cap
3) Most of the teams knows they might loose Rielly after this year
4) Forced to go with depth players in many areas of the line-up
5) Matthews starts the season on IR

They are top heavy with a few solid guys who can lead in the trenches (Tavares, Muzzin, Brodie). NHL is a coaching and team game and many teams have better depth than the Leafs. Shut down their PP and offense which can be done and their confidence is shattered.

Any team with grit, speed, and depth can beat the Leafs.

That Pittsburg loss is a clear example of that. I don’t even find the Pens all that speedy but they grinded the Leafs hard that game.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That Pittsburg loss is a clear example of that. I don’t even find the Pens all that speedy but they grinded the Leafs hard that game.

Offense is important but teams that are tight and have speed, grit, and depth can cause issues for the Leafs. It's exactly how we beat them in the playoffs. The Pens game is a good example yes!

Look at Tampa... they beat us with better depth and grit and better team D and goaltending. Their offense came from depth for the most part. That's why they were so tough for us to beat them cause they had the same game plan as us and had better tools.

 

[sandviper]

Offense is important but teams that are tight and have speed, grit, and depth can cause issues for the Leafs. It's exactly how we beat them in the playoffs. The Pens game is a good example yes!

Just to add though to your earlier list (or expand on some of your points):

1) Campbell and Mrazek are NOT a tandem you’d expect or even want for a contending team. I really don’t know what they were thinking.

2) Their defence has completely shit the bed. Even Reilly is playing like trash. Muzzin, who I think is their most important defender, has been horrible as well.

Despite the lack of grit and depth, on paper, they are better than their record. It’s not like they’ve played what I would call “heavy” teams. However, they’ve definitely been outworked.

If they lose against Chicago, who have been hot trash also, the city may implode. Good thing I live in the suburbs…

 

[Goalfield13]

Leaf fans were up in arms when I called their goaltending "questionable" and dared to point out their lack of talent up front after the Big 4 on the main board. The leafs look as bad as Marner's teeth.

 

[Andy]

Leaf fans were up in arms when I called their goaltending "questionable" and dared to point out their lack of talent up front after the Big 4 on the main board. The leafs look as bad as Marner's teeth.

Most teams who won because of their stars lack offensive after their top players.

Look at Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Letang), Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith, Seabrooke), Washington (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, Kuznetsov).

Heck, even the years the Kings won, it was mostly because they were loaded on Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Richards, Brown.

You can win loading up on your stars. It just takes a while to find the right mix of support cast for everything to click.

For Toronto, the support cast is everything. They don't have to score, they just have to be tough to play against. When your support cast isn't a pain to play against, teams can just load everything they have against your stars.

 

[Goalfield13]

Most teams who won because of their stars lack offensive after their top players.

Look at Pittsburgh (Crosby, Malkin, Letang), Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith, Seabrooke), Washington (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Carlson, Kuznetsov).

Heck, even the years the Kings won, it was mostly because they were loaded on Kopitar, Carter, Doughty, Richards, Brown.

You can win loading up on your stars. It just takes a while to find the right mix of support cast for everything to click.

For Toronto, the support cast is everything. They don't have to score, they just have to be tough to play against. When your support cast isn't a pain to play against, teams can just load everything they have against your stars.

The difference is that those teams didn't put all of their cap on forwards only, and those stars also had heart. The leafs have won nothing. Not even a round. Yet Marner gets $11 million. Dumb franchise is dumb.

 

[Andy]

The difference is that those teams didn't put all of their cap on forwards only, and those stars also had heart. The leafs have won nothing. Not even a round. Yet Marner gets $11 million. Dumb franchise is dumb.

Pittsburgh definitely put almost all their cap on Malkin, Staal and Crosby.

Also, Toronto still has good pieces on D at a reasonable prices (Rielly, Brodin and Muzzin) which is allowing them to get away with a decent d core and expensive forwards.

I know it's fun to crap on Toronto, but their approach in paying their stars isn't really that different from other cup winning teams in the recent past.

As much as we like to make fun of them, Marner, Nylander, Matthews are all tradeable at their cap hits. Tavares less so.

Marner is 24, he's younger than every habs forward except Suzuki and Caufield.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Leafs lost to Hurricanes again, against their own goalie again, this time the traded Freddy Anderson not the Zamboni driver.

But that Zamboni driver was there for the Canes to pump the crowd up:

 

[Habs Halifax]

Just to add though to your earlier list (or expand on some of your points):

1) Campbell and Mrazek are NOT a tandem you’d expect or even want for a contending team. I really don’t know what they were thinking.

2) Their defence has completely shit the bed. Even Reilly is playing like trash. Muzzin, who I think is their most important defender, has been horrible as well.

Despite the lack of grit and depth, on paper, they are better than their record. It’s not like they’ve played what I would call “heavy” teams. However, they’ve definitely been outworked.

If they lose against Chicago, who have been hot trash also, the city may implode. Good thing I live in the suburbs…

Flat cap Covid years is only going to make things worse for them moving forward. Matthews is as good as gone IMO. If he stays, the next contract will be massive!

 

[Goalfield13]

Pittsburgh definitely put almost all their cap on Malkin, Staal and Crosby.

Also, Toronto still has good pieces on D at a reasonable prices (Rielly, Brodin and Muzzin) which is allowing them to get away with a decent d core and expensive forwards.

I know it's fun to crap on Toronto, but their approach in paying their stars isn't really that different from other cup winning teams in the recent past.

As much as we like to make fun of them, Marner, Nylander, Matthews are all tradeable at their cap hits. Tavares less so.

Marner is 24, he's younger than every habs forward except Suzuki and Caufield.

I don't buy it. I watch them often, and these stars are not cut from the same cloth. Also, they likely lose Rielly this offseason.

 

[sandviper]

Flat cap Covid years is only going to make things worse for them moving forward. Matthews is as good as gone IMO. If he stays, the next contract will be massive!

Maybe it's low-hanging fruit, but it seems obvious to me that Arizona is going to open the bank for him once he's becomes a UFA.

Perhaps not as productive (during the season) as Marner, I think Nylander's contract is very movable and may return a good asset. they may be able to get a solid defender, then move Reilly for something else and give them some cap flexibility for this offseason.

Whatever, let them figure out their own problems lol!

 

[Pompeius Magnus]

Pittsburgh definitely put almost all their cap on Malkin, Staal and Crosby.

Also, Toronto still has good pieces on D at a reasonable prices (Rielly, Brodin and Muzzin) which is allowing them to get away with a decent d core and expensive forwards.

I know it's fun to crap on Toronto, but their approach in paying their stars isn't really that different from other cup winning teams in the recent past.

As much as we like to make fun of them, Marner, Nylander, Matthews are all tradeable at their cap hits. Tavares less so.

Marner is 24, he's younger than every habs forward except Suzuki and Caufield.

The difference is that the pens core turned out to all be playoff warriors, till the wear and tear started to hit them hard. The notion of ''character'' is a weird one to quantify but I do think there's a big gap in that department.

 

[Andy]

I don't buy it. I watch them often, and these stars are not cut from the same cloth. Also, they likely lose Rielly this offseason.

People said the same thing of Ovechkin, Backstrom and Carlson.

 

[Andy]

The difference is that the pens core turned out to all be playoff warriors, till the wear and tear started to hit them hard. The notion of ''character'' is a weird one to quantify but I do think there's a big gap in that department.

I'm not sure I subscribe to that. I remember people saying Backstrom, Ovechkin and Carlson weren't playoff warriors because they couldn't get past the second round.

The same was said of Tampa before their back-t0-back cup wins.

Playoffs sometimes is a lot of luck. When you look at the history of cup winners, the vast majority of them have teams loaded up with players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Muzzin, Reilly. When you look at the evolution of those cup winning rosters, you notice a lot changes in support cast from year-to-year.

It takes a while to find the right mix of stars and support casts. Some teams find it right away, some it takes longer, some never find it (the Sharks).

Any GM in the league would manage the leafs more or less the same, the biggest difference being that they probably would have passed on signing Tavares... though I'm not so sure.

 

[Goalfield13]

People said the same thing of Ovechkin, Backstrom and Carlson.

So what?

 

[LaP]

Pittsburgh definitely put almost all their cap on Malkin, Staal and Crosby.

Also, Toronto still has good pieces on D at a reasonable prices (Rielly, Brodin and Muzzin) which is allowing them to get away with a decent d core and expensive forwards.

I know it's fun to crap on Toronto, but their approach in paying their stars isn't really that different from other cup winning teams in the recent past.

As much as we like to make fun of them, Marner, Nylander, Matthews are all tradeable at their cap hits. Tavares less so.

Marner is 24, he's younger than every habs forward except Suzuki and Caufield.

The difference is Laffs GM can't find good depth. Jim was very good at finding cheap depth for a fair cap hit. Current Caps GM is good at it too. I don't get the point of laughing at the Laffs though. This is weird considering our situation, This is one of the main reason i don't visit this board that much anymore. The constant laughing at other teams for no reason.

 

[LaP]

I'm not sure I subscribe to that. I remember people saying Backstrom, Ovechkin and Carlson weren't playoff warriors because they couldn't get past the second round.

The same was said of Tampa before their back-t0-back cup wins.

Playoffs sometimes is a lot of luck. When you look at the history of cup winners, the vast majority of them have teams loaded up with players like Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, Muzzin, Reilly. When you look at the evolution of those cup winning rosters, you notice a lot changes in support cast from year-to-year.

It takes a while to find the right mix of stars and support casts. Some teams find it right away, some it takes longer, some never find it (the Sharks).

Any GM in the league would manage the leafs more or less the same, the biggest difference being that they probably would have passed on signing Tavares... though I'm not so sure.

I honestly think you are wasting your time. The vast majority of this board believes in depth and they think it's the best way to win a cup. The fact that history proves the best way to win a cup is to have highly skilled players wont change their mind. They don't care about history and facts they are pro management and pro-CH and will believe anything MB feeds them until he is fired then overnight he wont be good anymore for them cause he wont be a CH anymore. If the nest GM believes in skills then they will turn around overnight and start to believe in skills and will laugh at teams like we currently have.

 

[BLONG7]

Sabres spanked the TB Cup champs 5-1..............just saying guys.
A free for all on parity this season...

 

[LaP]

Sabres spanked the TB Cup champs 5-1..............just saying guys.
A free for all on parity this season...

Buffalo always start strong they are the October sc champions pretty much every year. Wont last.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

The difference is Laffs GM can't find good depth. Jim was very good at finding cheap depth for a fair cap hit. Current Caps GM is good at it too. I don't get the point of laughing at the Laffs though. This is weird considering our situation, This is one of the main reason i don't visit this board that much anymore. The constant laughing at other teams for no reason.

Hahahahahahahahahahah haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahah. f*** THE LEAFS!

 

[Goalfield13]

Hahahahahahahahahahah haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahah. f*** THE LEAFS!

This is the way.

 

[Andy]

I don't know, the older I get, the more of a fan of hockey I become. The habs are my team, but I'm no longer really invested in bitter rivalries. I enjoy seeing any team with stars try and build their teams.

Obviously, if it comes between Habs-Leafs, Habs-Boston, I'll be deeply invested, but if the habs don't go anywhere, I don't really have a problem seeing the leafs or bruins win a cup. I also don't have a problem admitting when these teams make good moves or are well built.

The more I watch, the less I'm a blind partisan.

 

[Goalfield13]

I don't know, the older I get, the more of a fan of hockey I become. The habs are my team, but I'm no longer really invested in bitter rivalries. I enjoy seeing any team with stars try and build their teams.

Obviously, if it comes between Habs-Leafs, Habs-Boston, I'll be deeply invested, but if the habs don't go anywhere, I don't really have a problem seeing the leafs or bruins win a cup. I also don't have a problem admitting when these teams make good moves or are well built.

The more I watch, the less I'm a blind partisan.

I see the Leafs often. I am not blind. I thought they would be a powerhouse at first. Now? No way. Other teams had the luxury of high priced contracts taking up less cap over time, but the leafs core is only locked up for the next 2-3 seasons. They are about to lose Rielly (who I hope we target). I don't trust them to go anywhere with Tavares and Marner on the team. Matthews and Nylander? Sure. They are fantastic.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I think the Leafs need to move on from Marner. He can't cut it there and his mental health is taking a beating.

 

[Andy]

I think the Leafs need to move on from Marner. He can't cut it there and his mental health is taking a beating.

Yah, he's the weak link for sure. Matthews, Tavares, Nylander can generate their own offense, and if I were them I'd rather keep Reilly, Muzzin and the D crew.