Out of Town Thread - New Year's Edition!

[Perrah]

It has certainly become a mess and is now attracting attention for wrong reasons. However, LGBTQ advocates and stakeholders keep saying that holding these events is a positive for their community even when a player bails on the event.

I do see benefit when jerk-offs like the Staal brothers confirm to the world that they're ignorant assholes. Do you really believe the Staals base other choices in life on scripture and biblical faith? Reimer's strong level of faith has long been known.

Costly loss for the Panthers at home last night.

I bet Reimer and the Staal's stone adulterous women to death all the time.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

I know it is fake, that was the whole point. That is why I used allegedly and alluded to the incest thing being similar to that.

sure, but tons of people were legit fooled by this weird rumor because it fits their confirmation bias.

 

[Perrah]

sure, but tons of people were legit fooled by this weird rumor because it fits their confirmation bias.

Oh I know. I had people on my FB that said it was happening where I live and could prove it. Funny enough proof never came.

 

[ReHabs]

Does this mean that unless I am pure in all my actions in life that any good act I do perform is tainted and completely unworthy of any recognition?

I didn't see this before but I challenge you to extend the sympathy you extend yourself to the Staals, Reimer, Provorov, and others who've gotten witch-hunted. Did anyone here even mention the Staal brothers' Staal Foundation charity? Staal Family Foundation - The Staal Family Foundation is a private, not for profit charitable fund to support children and families who are fighting cancer. I didn't see any reference...

Who determines authenticity? Are you saying unless any industry/community/person in a given society can prove authentic support, that no support should be given at all to any issue?

How does one wishing to support a cause prove their authenticity? Is there ever a way to know someone's true intention? If we can never prove good intention, should no support ever be given to any marginalized community?

Here's how I see it. The nhl can do one of three things:

1. Give no support
2. Give symbolic support
3. Give authentic support (whatever that looks like).

I choose 2-3 over 1.

If the authenticity is unverifiable, why does the hostility to any opposition or disagreement have to be so intense?

It has certainly become a mess and is now attracting attention for wrong reasons. However, LGBTQ advocates and stakeholders keep saying that holding these events is a positive for their community even when a player bails on the event.

I do see benefit when jerk-offs like the Staal brothers confirm to the world that they're ignorant assholes. Do you really believe the Staals base other choices in life on scripture and biblical faith? Reimer's strong level of faith has long been known.

Costly loss for the Panthers at home last night.

Were you aware of the Staal Foundation? Do you really think it's fair to call them ignorant assholes when they have a family charity to help children facing cancer?

Might not be a calamity or a death-sentence but I'd say it's pretty telling that a grown man gets the cops called on him because he doesn't know how to behave when drinking.

I guess that same grown man's child cancer charity doesn't count either since someone called the police to complain about his party on a lake once.

 

[Mrb1p]

I didn't see this before but I challenge you to extend the sympathy you extend yourself to the Staals, Reimer, Provorov, and others who've gotten witch-hunted. Did anyone here even mention the Staal brothers' Staal Foundation charity? Staal Family Foundation - The Staal Family Foundation is a private, not for profit charitable fund to support children and families who are fighting cancer. I didn't see any reference...

If the authenticity is unverifiable, why does the hostility to any opposition or disagreement have to be so intense?


Were you aware of the Staal Foundation? Do you really think it's fair to call them ignorant assholes when they have a family charity to help children facing cancer?


I guess that same grown man's child cancer charity doesn't count either since someone called the police to complain about his party on a lake once.

Would that charity help gay teenagers ? Lmao.

Doing a good deed doesn't mean you're not a POG. Unless you want to go to bat for the creators of the Reichsnaturschutzgesetz and the Landschaftsschutzgebiete.

 

[Andy]

I didn't see this before but I challenge you to extend the sympathy you extend yourself to the Staals, Reimer, Provorov, and others who've gotten witch-hunted. Did anyone here even mention the Staal brothers' Staal Foundation charity? Staal Family Foundation - The Staal Family Foundation is a private, not for profit charitable fund to support children and families who are fighting cancer. I didn't see any reference...

I can commend Staals for their charity work but shit on them for their respect for other communities. These are not mutually exclusive.

Wait, so criticizing the Staals is hostility? Wow, what a low threshold.

Wishing to end cancer and non-wishing to support the gay community because it's against your religious beliefs are two different things. And because they are two different things, I can give them props for the former and look down on them for the latter.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I didn't see this before but I challenge you to extend the sympathy you extend yourself to the Staals, Reimer, Provorov, and others who've gotten witch-hunted. Did anyone here even mention the Staal brothers' Staal Foundation charity? Staal Family Foundation - The Staal Family Foundation is a private, not for profit charitable fund to support children and families who are fighting cancer. I didn't see any reference...

If the authenticity is unverifiable, why does the hostility to any opposition or disagreement have to be so intense?


Were you aware of the Staal Foundation? Do you really think it's fair to call them ignorant assholes when they have a family charity to help children facing cancer?


I guess that same grown man's child cancer charity doesn't count either since someone called the police to complain about his party on a lake once.

What does that have to do with anything?

Having a charity means you get to act like an ass when drunk and bother those around you? It means that your bigotry shouldn't be criticized? The Staal brothers might very well have some very fine qualities and still be bigots. That doesn't let them off the hook for that. By the way, how is it a witch-hunt? Who is taking anything away from them? So far as I can tell, the only thing people are doing is calling them assholes.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Oh I know. I had people on my FB that said it was happening where I live and could prove it. Funny enough proof never came.

kind of like when you ask certain posters about a source for the California incest thing, and they just m e l t a w a y

 

[Habs]

This is a whataboutism. It states that unless someone is ready to give support to all, they should show support to none. And if they show support for some, they should get no kudos unless they show support for all.

This is a completely unreasonable position. The history of rights and freedoms is one of progressive expansion. This whataboutism essential states that progressive expansion is utterly meaningless unless it was given to all on a first instance. You can be frustrated with how slowly societies move in domain of inclusivity, but we should be happy whenever society takes such a step, even if the speed frustrates us.

You can see this support as a step in the right direction. One of what should be many steps to come. And just because there is still path to walk, that doesn;t mean I should dismiss the path already covered.

What I see here are a lot reaches to be angry about something. What that is I don't know. I don't think the folks that are angry know either.

Ah gotta love the left. You guys are always right, everyone else is wrong, so bow down to whatever you are told to support no matter what you believe. Just shut up and salute every cause corporations tell you to, and the news networks, cast aside any of your personal feelings and take it.

lol, sports used to be an escape, now its a vehicle to deliver the message of the month. I'm done with this conversation, you can't win arguments with the crazy left and their nutty ways of thinking. guess that's why everyone is fleeing california and heading to states where you are allowed critical thinking.

Have fun on the left though, follow every rule they tell you and don't think for yourself, have a good day. I'm really done with this and the madness the left will tell you to subscribe to.

 

[ReHabs]

Would that charity help gay teenagers ? Lmao.

Doing a good deed doesn't mean you're not a POG. Unless you want to go to bat for the creators of the Reichsnaturschutzgesetz and the Landschaftsschutzgebiete.

I can commend Staals for their charity work but shit on them for their respect for other communities. These are not mutually exclusive.

What does that have to do with anything?

Having a charity means you get to act like an ass when drunk and bother those around you? It means that your bigotry shouldn't be criticized? The Staal brother might very well have some very fine qualities and still be bigots. That doesn't let them off the hook for that. By the way, how is it a witch-hunt? Who is taking anything away from them? So far as I can tell, the only thing people are doing is calling them assholes.

My point is that people are complicated and the contemporary all or nothing approach to social justice leaves a lot of people feeling aggrieved and embittered when in fact the goal is to attain a better, more just world.

 

[Canadienna]

Good segue from Politics back to hockey

 

[DAChampion]

I think whataboutism is the most misused word of the 2020s.

It's a toxic term pushed by people who are on bandwagons and who don't actually understand the underlying philosophical principles (if any) of their beliefs.

 

[Andy]

My point is that people are complicated and the contemporary all or nothing approach to social justice leaves a lot of people feeling aggrieved and embittered when in fact the goal is to attain a better, more just world.

But that isn't the point you are making. You are trying to excuse bad behavior in one realm by pointing to good behavior in another unrelated realm.

What good the Staal's do for issue x (charity for cancer), doesn't mean we can't criticize them for views in issue y (refusing to participate in symbolic respect to a community who's existence doesn't jive with their religion), especially when x & y are completely unrelated.

Similarly, I can't use bad their bad opinions in issue y to dismiss the good they do in issue x.

No one is denying human beings are complicated. And no one is saying the Staal's charity is bad. People are just saying that not respecting a community because it's against your religion is a crap excuse for what ultimately is bigotry (even in small form).

And it's ironic you say that it's social justice that makes people aggrieved while suggesting its getting in the way of a better and more just world, when in this case it is religion that is preventing a more just world. More specifically, it's the Staal's religion that is causing two individuals from respecting a community because their sexual orientation doesn't square with their faith. Furthermore, that faith is preventing two individuals from treating other people as equals. This is precisely the issues that social justice is trying to combat.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

where to begin with this mess

Ah gotta love the left. You guys are always right, everyone else is wrong, so bow down to whatever you are told to support no matter what you believe. Just shut up and salute every cause corporations tell you to, and the news networks, cast aside any of your personal feelings and take it.

starting off strong with some victim complex out of nowhere.

no one asked the Staals to "cast aside their personal feelings", they were asked to be team players and support a cause their employers wanted to support, just like military appreciation night. they were literally asked to wear a special jersey like they've been asked to many times in the past. also in case you didn't notice, they were allowed not to participate... they weren't fired or benched.

lol, sports used to be an escape, now its a vehicle to deliver the message of the month. I'm done with this conversation, you can't win arguments with the crazy left and their nutty ways of thinking. guess that's why everyone is fleeing california and heading to states where you are allowed critical thinking.

ah yes "the good old days", I guess you're never heard of Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson, Greg Louganis, Arthur Ashe, Martina Navratilova ... you're right, sports used to be an ~ escape ~ completely devoid of politics, uhuh.

"heading to states where you are allowed critical thinking" do go on sir, please tell me how banning books Florida-style is encouraging critical thinking

BTW, still waiting for your source on your bizarre California incest claims

 

[Habs]

where to begin with this mess

starting off strong with some victim complex out of nowhere.

no one asked the Staals to "cast aside their personal feelings", they were asked to be team players and support a cause their employers wanted to support, just like military appreciation night. they were literally asked to wear a special jersey like they've been asked to many times in the past. also in case you didn't notice, they were allowed not to participate... they weren't fired or benched.


ah yes "the good old days", I guess you're never heard of Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson, Greg Louganis, Arthur Ashe, Martina Navratilova ... you're right, sports used to be an ~ escape ~ completely devoid of politics, uhuh.

"heading to states where you are allowed critical thinking" do go on sir, please tell me how banning books Florida-style is encouraging critical thinking

BTW, still waiting for your source on your bizarre California incest claims

like I said, you want to indoctrinate innocent kids with draq queen story hour while they strip and perform obscene acts cool. You approve of books promoting incest, sex and rape fantasies in school libraries, I do not, we will never agree. Hope you never have kids that have to endure a school and daycare full of this filth, but if you do.. congrats, stay away from me lol.

 

[CDN24]

Good segue from Politics back to hockey

That will be hard on the leagues most insecure fanbase

 

[Spring in Fialta]

My point is that people are complicated and the contemporary all or nothing approach to social justice leaves a lot of people feeling aggrieved and embittered when in fact the goal is to attain a better, more just world.

How are any of the posts you quoted going with an all or nothing approach? Seems to be quite the opposite, where we acknowledge that the Staals do some good and that they're still bigots. Are we not supposed to say that because...why? I don't think not engaging their beliefs will somehow make them more accepting of others. Again, I think that if you switched 'gay' with 'black' or 'Arab' or any other ethnicity, how bad it is would be a bit more glaring. And frankly, I'm not sure why their religious belief have to do with their current position. You can be Christian, believe that homosexuality is 'wrong' and still understand that you live in a secular society where they should be accepted into your sport.

 

[Canadienna]

That will be hard on the leagues most insecure fanbase

Well it perfectly explains their view that everything in the league is rigged against them!

 

[Schooner Guy]

Were you aware of the Staal Foundation? Do you really think it's fair to call them ignorant assholes when they have a family charity to help children facing cancer?

OMG! Great that they have this foundation and it's awesome that it benefits the fight against cancer but so many rich assholes have their own charity foundations. It doesn't mean someone isn't ignorant and a jerk-off towards other populations.

 

[Schooner Guy]

like I said, you want to indoctrinate innocent kids with draq queen story hour while they strip and perform obscene acts cool. You approve of books promoting incest, sex and rape fantasies in school libraries, I do not, we will never agree. Hope you never have kids that have to endure a school and daycare full of this filth, but if you do.. congrats, stay away from me lol.

 

[ReHabs]

OMG! Great that they have this foundation and it's awesome that it benefits the fight against cancer but so many rich assholes have their own charity foundations. It doesn't mean someone isn't ignorant and a jerk-off towards other populations.

To your sense of justice, not wearing pride colours (as part of a bloodless corporate initiative) is extremely relevant in assessing the character of a person but their long running and long praised charity is completely irrelevant.

Okay. Agree to disagree.

 

[ReHabs]

@Spring in Fialta and @Andy

I don’t think it’s wrong or bad or immoral that anybody refused to wear any sort of clothing or refused to endorse any cause. It doesn’t make them bigoted or prejudiced — not in my eyes. I brought up their charity as an example of the complexity of the topic — the witch-hunts are not necessary.

 

[Walrus26]

lol, sports used to be an escape, now its a vehicle to deliver the message of the month.

With respect, I'm not going to get into a political L v R thing so have snipped out that part of your post. However, you could not be more spot on with this observation above.

And that applies just as equally to the whole uniform / forces fetish that I see on North American sports feeds far too often.

In London in the 1980's, Stonewall (famous UK gay rights group) ran a brilliant ad campaign on the side of London buses. The simple line was "some people are gay, get over it" and that's stuck with me since I first saw it in my early teens because it's simply right. However, many people are not gay, and people need to get over that as well.

Live and let live.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

@Spring in Fialta and @Andy

I don’t think it’s wrong or bad or immoral that anybody refused to wear any sort of clothing or refused to endorse any cause. It doesn’t make them bigoted or prejudiced — not in my eyes. I brought up their charity as an example of the complexity of the topic — the witch-hunts are not necessary.

I mean, if the cause is to promote acceptance of people from a different sexual orientation in hockey and you refuse to take part in it for religious reasons, you're most definitely bigoted. That doesn't make you hateful but it certainly does make you bigoted. You seem to conflate the two. And again, you're going to have to explain to me how there's a witch-hunt against the Staals.

 

[ReHabs]

I mean, if the cause is to promote acceptance of people from a different sexual orientation in hockey and you refuse to take part in it for religious reasons, you're most definitely bigoted. That doesn't make you hateful but it certainly does make you bigoted. You seem to conflate the two. And again, you're going to have to explain to me how there's a witch-hunt against the Staals.

I wrote earlier that from my personal, real-life, honest to god experience I know people don’t who think LGBT+ Pride events are about acceptance but rather endorsement and if you listen to any of these black sheep who you call bigoted, they all seem to say more or less the same thing: they have no problem tolerating or accepting LGBT+ people but they do not want to endorse it as a political or social concept.

I haven’t read or listened to the Staal’s reasoning but this was the case with Reimer and Provorov and so many commentators refused to listen to them. Which is something I find strange because hockey’s audience surely has many people (or their parents) who surely have similar views.

Is it really impossible for you people to just shrug this off?