Out of Town Thread - New Year's Edition!

[Perrah]

I refuse to believe this, never mind search this.

STOOOOOOP

Toronto Star actually did an article on it.

 

[417]

It's not solely for potential NHL players. It's largely to get more fans and grow the game.

I get that...but I think as a corporate initiative, the goal is much more sinister or self-serving (i,e, $$).

In the era that we're in, where even negative news is potentially good news.

I think it's serving a to feed a machine rather than support a vulnerable community.

 

[ReHabs]

Amazing work taking one snippet and leaving out the next sentence that states "not a big deal". You'd be awesome at tabloid journalism.

The routine bouts of character assassination every time a hockey player says he doesn't want to partake in pride nights is what, if not tabloid journalism?

How much heinous russophobia did any of you anti-racists call out after Provorov refused to wear pride colours?

It goes to show how little sympathy is actually spared by people. Everybody says they want a diverse and pluralistic society but when it is revealed -- no way. Provorov is a heinous homophobe and therefore all the racist insults and cultural bigotry tossed at him is justified. Now the same people have moved on from Reimer and his identity and want to skewer the Staal brothers. It's so transparent it defies belief that anybody could fall for this.

I blame the NHL and their tone-deaf approach to these events.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

The routine bouts of character assassination every time a hockey player says he doesn't want to partake in pride nights is what, if not tabloid journalism?

i mean the guy swears he has never worn a Pride jersey before even though there's photo evidence of him having done it before. he character assassinated himself

 

[ReHabs]

i mean the guy swears he has never worn a Pride jersey before even though there's photo evidence of him having done it before. he character assassinated himself

I think it goes to show how flippant and inconsistent this stuff really is. So nobody should take it seriously. It's all symbolism on behalf of commercial and consumerist interests. It doesn't help anyone!

It's my understanding from certain family members and in-laws that they seriously interpret the LGBT+ colours and imagery as not 'acceptance' or 'pride' but endorsement of and those people simply don't want to be made to feel compelled to endorse things they don't want to endorse. This disconnection is extremely prominent and obvious once you notice it the first time. The witchhunts and duck hunt performed after every pride/LGBT+ event really doesn't do anything to help this misunderstanding and misalignment at all.

I think one way to look at it is perhaps the Quebec flag. Should every QC resident be compelled to sport the QC flag and QC imagery on St. Jean? It's not a big deal right, it's just a flag and some fleur-de-lys, right? I know so many people who'd fight that tooth-and-nail even though it's a genuinely harmless expression of support to a certain community. Respect for someone's life and identity doesn't require endorsement, it requires tolerance. So far none of these individuals holdouts who've been chased on social media have (as far as I know) displayed any intolerance.

 

[Non Player Canadiens]

Remember the great litterbox fiasco, where allegedly there were litterboxes in bathrooms because people were identifying as cats. Seems like one of those things.

this is yet another fake culture war issue which has been debunked (see 6:27 mark)



y'alls misinfo detector is broken!!

 

[Schooner Guy]

I get that...but I think as a corporate initiative, the goal is much more sinister or self-serving (i,e, $$).

In the era that we're in, where even negative news is potentially good news.

I think it's serving a to feed a machine rather than support a vulnerable community.

100% that the NHL and its owners are being self-serving about it. It's still good for the growth of the game overall however despite them filling their pockets.

 

[Andy]

My in-laws are teachers, and the one thing being pushed in California is how incest should not be frowned upon and is a natural. So if the NHL gets behind this cause and pushes it, do you'all just support that as well or do you have any line at all where you say 'enough is enough'?

Assessing this hypothetical requires me to determine where support for incest and support for LGBTQ communities are morally equivalent issues. When asking this question first, then I don't know if I can say that the situation you've presented is at all comparable.

Lastly, if there is a "line", it clearly isn't anywhere close to support for LGBTQ communities. We're not asking you to recognize ameboma as people and local community deserving of equal rights. The league is asking for symbolic support for people who've been discriminated against because of their sexual orientations and gender identities.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Oof

 

[ReHabs]

Assessing this hypothetical requires me to determine where support for incest and support for LGBTQ communities are morally equivalent issues. When asking this question first, then I don't know if I can say that the situation you've presented is at all comparable.

Lastly, if there is a "line", it clearly isn't anywhere close to support LGBTQ communities. We're not asking you to recognize ameboma as people and local community deserving of equal rights. The league is asking for symbolic support for people who've been discriminated against because of their sexual orientations and gender identities.

Maybe we can take the NHL more seriously if they didn't give a slap on the wrist to the sexual predation that their darling Chicago Blackhawks covered-up and the top-to-bottom heinous hazing and bully culture that they've done less than the bare minimum to resolve.

 

[Andy]

Maybe we can take the NHL more seriously if they didn't give a slap on the wrist to the sexual predation that their darling Chicago Blackhawks covered-up and the top-to-bottom heinous hazing and bully culture that they've done less than the bare minimum to resolve.

Sure, but I'm not really a fan of these whataboutisms.

You can still promote one good thing if you suck at another. If the nhl is using the good thing to ask for forgiveness for the bad thing, then, yeah sure...maybe we can talk about both.

I don't see anything wrong with the nhl trying to support inclusivity while also struggling to deal with its misogyny problem. And I think it's misguided to use this supposed contradiction to completely dismiss steps the league is trying to address for one issue.

Does this mean that unless I am pure in all my actions in life that any good act I do perform is tainted and completely unworthy of any recognition?

 

[Habs]

Say what now?

I heard/read they're burning books in Florida...never heard about this in California though lol

That Cali bud is somethin' else man lol

I find it's causing a greater divide and making it more difficult for anyone who happens to be closeted or even the parent of a gay or trans child, etc.

Corporations leading social activism...yuck.

Drag Queen story hour is really being pushed on young kids in certain districts of Cali and lots of major cities, and this is where we walk that slippery slope. If the NHL goes full on promotion for whatever cause, say its this story hour, is it ok for players to not support this? Our fundamental beliefs will always take precedent , which is why I wish every form of lifestyle choice and politics was out of sports and school. It has no business being there in the first place.

 

[ReHabs]

Sure, but I'm not really a fan of these whataboutisms.

You can still promote one good thing if you suck at another. If the nhl is using the good thing to ask for forgiveness for the bad thing, then, yeah sure...maybe we can talk about both.

I don't see anything wrong with the nhl trying to support inclusivity while also struggling to deal with its misogyny problem. And I think it's misguided to use this supposed contradiction to completely dismiss steps the league is trying to address for one issue.

Does this mean that unless I am pure in all my actions in life that any good act I do perform is tainted an completely unworthy of any recognition?

I think whataboutism is the most misused word of the 2020s.

The point is to cast doubts on the NHL's authenticity and interest in social justice -- some people actually believe these events matter, others think they're cynical attempts to exploit marginalised communities. Given the NHL's reputation and experience with all manner of social justice topics, including the CTE/concussion topic they're fighting against tooth-and-nail, I don't think I will give them any benefit of the doubt.

 

[Habs]

Maybe we can take the NHL more seriously if they didn't give a slap on the wrist to the sexual predation that their darling Chicago Blackhawks covered-up and the top-to-bottom heinous hazing and bully culture that they've done less than the bare minimum to resolve.

THIS

 

[MXD]

Oof

Sutter trying to make it all about himself, and only himself. Again.

 

[Andy]

I think whataboutism is the most misused word of the 2020s.

The point is to cast doubts on the NHL's authenticity and interest in social justice -- some people actually believe these events matter, others think they're cynical attempts to exploit marginalised communities.

Who determines authenticity? Are you saying unless any industry/community/person in a given society can prove authentic support, that no support should be given at all to any issue?

How does one wishing to support a cause prove their authenticity? Is there ever a way to know someone's true intention? If we can never prove good intention, should no support ever be given to any marginalized community?

Here's how I see it. The nhl can do one of three things:

1. Give no support
2. Give symbolic support
3. Give authentic support (whatever that looks like).

I choose 2-3 over 1.

 

[Schooner Guy]

The routine bouts of character assassination every time a hockey player says he doesn't want to partake in pride nights is what, if not tabloid journalism?

How much heinous russophobia did any of you anti-racists call out after Provorov refused to wear pride colours?

It goes to show how little sympathy is actually spared by people. Everybody says they want a diverse and pluralistic society but when it is revealed -- no way. Provorov is a heinous homophobe and therefore all the racist insults and cultural bigotry tossed at him is justified. Now the same people have moved on from Reimer and his identity and want to skewer the Staal brothers. It's so transparent it defies belief that anybody could fall for this.

I blame the NHL and their tone-deaf approach to these events.

It has certainly become a mess and is now attracting attention for wrong reasons. However, LGBTQ advocates and stakeholders keep saying that holding these events is a positive for their community even when a player bails on the event.

I do see benefit when jerk-offs like the Staal brothers confirm to the world that they're ignorant assholes. Do you really believe the Staals base other choices in life on scripture and biblical faith? Reimer's strong level of faith has long been known.

Costly loss for the Panthers at home last night.

 

[Habs]

Assessing this hypothetical requires me to determine where support for incest and support for LGBTQ communities are morally equivalent issues. When asking this question first, then I don't know if I can say that the situation you've presented is at all comparable.

Lastly, if there is a "line", it clearly isn't anywhere close to support for LGBTQ communities. We're not asking you to recognize ameboma as people and local community deserving of equal rights. The league is asking for symbolic support for people who've been discriminated against because of their sexual orientations and gender identities.

The list of people being discriminated against is long and distinguished. Did I miss the era of the NHL having Indigenous month and paying homage to the natives at every game? I mean the rinks are built on most of their lands lol. Vancouver has an indegenous announcement before every game, I doubt the NHL has the balls to make the players bow down to the natives because they are not a powerful voice in mainstream media like the LGBTQ powerhouse.

 

[Andy]

The list of people being discriminated against is long and distinguished. Did I miss the era of the NHL having Indigenous month and paying homage to the natives at every game? I mean the rinks are built on most of their lands lol. Vancouver has an indegenous announcement before every game, I doubt the NHL has the balls to make the players bow down to the natives because they are not a powerful voice in mainstream media like the LGBTQ powerhouse.

This is a whataboutism. It states that unless someone is ready to give support to all, they should show support to none. And if they show support for some, they should get no kudos unless they show support for all.

This is a completely unreasonable position. The history of rights and freedoms is one of progressive expansion. This whataboutism essential states that progressive expansion is utterly meaningless unless it was given to all on a first instance. You can be frustrated with how slowly societies move in domain of inclusivity, but we should be happy whenever society takes such a step, even if the speed frustrates us.

You can see this support as a step in the right direction. One of what should be many steps to come. And just because there is still path to walk, that doesn;t mean I should dismiss the path already covered.

What I see here are a lot reaches to be angry about something. What that is I don't know. I don't think the folks that are angry know either.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I had one teammate back when I was playing football in college who would systematically throw up before every game, without fail. About 45 minutes before we had to go, all the blood would suddenly drain from his face and he'd get super nauseous and have to run to the bathroom. Nerves can really do a number on some guys.

Pretty sure superstar QB Josh Allen has mentioned puking before every game.

 

[Tyson]

Pretty sure superstar QB Josh Allen has mentioned puking before every game.

Bill Durnan retired because of nerves and nausea before games.
More common than folks know.

 

[417]

100% that the NHL and its owners are being self-serving about it. It's still good for the growth of the game overall however despite them filling their pockets.

I’m not convinced that’s the way to go about it, but fair enough.

 

[Perrah]

this is yet another fake culture war issue which has been debunked (see 6:27 mark)



y'alls misinfo detector is broken!!

I know it is fake, that was the whole point. That is why I used allegedly and alluded to the incest thing being similar to that.

 

[417]

Who determines authenticity? Are you saying unless any industry/community/person in a given society can prove authentic support, that no support should be given at all to any issue?

How does one wishing to support a cause prove their authenticity? Is there ever a way to know someone's true intention? If we can never prove good intention, should no support ever be given to any marginalized community?

Here's how I see it. The nhl can do one of three things:

1. Give no support
2. Give symbolic support
3. Give authentic support (whatever that looks like).

I choose 2-3 over 1.

To me there is no other option…and frankly, it would be a hell of a lot more if it was the NHLPA heading these efforts, rather then the league.

How it looks like, as you wrote, is a whole other story.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Oh brother, what a calamity.

Might not be a calamity or a death-sentence but I'd say it's pretty telling that a grown man gets the cops called on him because he doesn't know how to behave when drinking.

I don't know, something doesn't sit right for me when people try to justify non-recognition of a community on the grounds of religious/cultural doctrine.

The whole argument essentially claims that "I cannot respect community x because my community's cultural rules excludes these people as constituting an acceptable community." Then there is the whole: "please respect my community's right to not accept and recognize another community."

This is line of reasoning not only demands that I and others respect intolerance, but that I also refrain from looking down on those who wish to practice intolerance.

In this context, replace the LGTBQ community with black people and I wonder if we have this discussion about respecting one's right to intolerance on the grounds of religiosity.

For me, you cannot claim intolerance (refusal to respect another community) while at the same time asking that others respect your intolerance. If you wish to be intolerant, you have to be prepared to live with the social consequences of doing so.

Dunno how anyone can argue with this.