Out of Town Thread - New Year's Edition!

[Tyson]

Kotkaniemi has 6 more points than Suzuki in the last 30 games.

Je dis ça, je ne dis rien.

Surround Suzuki with the teammates Kotkaniemi enjoys and Suzuki would have 70 points

 

[HabbyGuy]

Kotkaniemi has 6 more points than Suzuki in the last 30 games.

Je dis ça, je ne dis rien.

And the 30 games before that? You're not seriously comparing them are you?

 

[Mrb1p]

Surround Suzuki with the teammates Kotkaniemi enjoys and Suzuki would have 70 points

Come on Tyson

And the 30 games before that? You're not seriously comparing them are you?

No, just thought it was interesting that one is a bust and the other one is a first line C according to hfhabs

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

40 point pace! GOAT!!!

Hopefully this guy has a good career. He’s been weirdly streaky but I’m hopeful that he can go onto something over there.

 

[HuGort]

Hopefully this guy has a good career. He’s been weirdly streaky but I’m hopeful that he can go onto something over there.

Koktaniemi kind of streaky

 

[nhlfan9191]

Come on Tyson


No, just thought it was interesting that one is a bust and the other one is a first line C according to hfhabs

Kohtkaniemi would be putting up 20-30 points playing with the teams we had the past 2 years. It would’ve been a disaster to commit a decade long term at decent money to him.

 

[Tyson]

Hopefully this guy has a good career. He’s been weirdly streaky but I’m hopeful that he can go onto something over there.

I am sure he will help light up the Habs on Tuesday.

 

[Lshap]

No, just thought it was interesting that one is a bust and the other one is a first line C according to hfhabs

Kotkaniemi is a decent depth player benefitting from top linemates. He's overpaid, but not a bust. Good for him for having a 5-point game, but he doesn't belong in any conversation with Suzuki.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I certainly enjoyed the 16 point Kotkaniemi more than the 40 point Kotkaniemi for the Canes.

That said, he makes 4.82m a year. 45 points is expected, 50-55 would be a good deal and 60+ would be a great deal.

 

[Mrb1p]

Kotkaniemi is a decent depth player benefitting from top linemates. He's overpaid, but not a bust. Good for him for having a 5-point game, but he doesn't belong in any conversation with Suzuki.

Hes playing with 2nd liners, Canes fans were ready to ship out Teuvo for scraps because he wasnt producing or doing anything with Aho on the first line. Now hes had a revival while playing with KK. Necas is great.

There is also a scenario in which Kotkaniemi is an actual contributor on a line and not carried by linemates.

Would suck to admit for most though, the copium is gigantic in here.

 

[CDN24]

Kotkaniemi is a decent depth player benefitting from top linemates. He's overpaid, but not a bust. Good for him for having a 5-point game, but he doesn't belong in any conversation with Suzuki.

Agreed, Remember when Lars Eller had 5 pts (4G and 1 assist) against the jets back in maybe 2012.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Hes playing with 2nd liners, Canes fans were ready to ship out Teuvo for scraps because he wasnt producing or doing anything with Aho on the first line. Now hes had a revival while playing with KK. Necas is great.

There is also a scenario in which Kotkaniemi is an actual contributor on a line and not carried by linemates.

Would suck to admit for most though, the copium is gigantic in here.

No one here is about to forget Tkachuk. KK never could/would have lived up to that here.

You need patience with young players, and vast majority of this board has none.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Kotkaniemi is a decent depth player benefitting from top linemates. He's overpaid, but not a bust. Good for him for having a 5-point game, but he doesn't belong in any conversation with Suzuki.

Every player benefits form decent linemates. He had turds as linemates last season after they decided he wasn't a winger. This is his first year with the Hurricanes centring a scoring line. He had a slow start partly because Teravainen and Svechnikov were crap. The last 30 games or so are probably most representative of what he can do.
He won't be Suzuki's level but this was another complete fak up by Monkeybrains Bergevin. Habs now have a compete waste of space in Dvorak when they could have had KK who at worst would have been a good trade chip.

 

[417]

Hes playing with 2nd liners, Canes fans were ready to ship out Teuvo for scraps because he wasnt producing or doing anything with Aho on the first line. Now hes had a revival while playing with KK. Necas is great.

There is also a scenario in which Kotkaniemi is an actual contributor on a line and not carried by linemates.

Would suck to admit for most though, the copium is gigantic in here.

Trying to read between the lines here but are you suggesting that labelling Kotkaniemi a bust so early in his career and acting like him being rushed would be a career killer, was totally reactionary and irrational?

Hmmm interesting....

 

[Mrb1p]

Agreed, Remember when Lars Eller had 5 pts (4G and 1 assist) against the jets back in maybe 2012.

Remember when Lars Eller was a #1 C on a cup winning team?

 

[Mrb1p]

Trying to read between the lines here but are you suggesting that labelling Kotkaniemi a bust so early in his career and acting like him being rushed would be a career killer, was totally reactionary and irrational?

Hmmm interesting....

Read between the lines. It is possible that rushing Kotkaniemi created irreversible damage to his skillset and it is also possible he is not a bust as a player despite that.

Nobody wouldve ranked him top 10 if they knew his ceiling was a 2nd line center. Nobody wouldve claimed him a bust if he was a 2nd line C from the get go. (Even labeling a 3C a bust is Pejorative Slured, mind you).

His ceiling was a 1C, rushing him got you a 2B kind of guy.

 

[417]

Read between the lines. It is possible that rushing Kotkaniemi created irreversible damage to his skillset and it is also possible he is not a bust as a player despite that.

It is also possible, and IMO, probable, that's he's exactly who he is today had he made his NHL debut last year.

Only difference is he'd probably still be a Montreal Canadiens player and the perception about him as a player would be entirely different.

Nobody wouldve ranked him top 10 if they knew his ceiling was a 2nd line center. Nobody wouldve claimed him a bust if he was a 2nd line C from the get go. (Even labeling a 3C a bust is Pejorative Slured, mind you).

His ceiling was a 1C, rushing him got you a 2B kind of guy.

Fair. But wouldn't be the first time amateur draft sleuths got a player's ceiling wrong.

1C or 2C or 3C is often circumstancial.

Nick Suzuki is a 1C on *this* team but ideally, if you're a really strong team, he's probably more of a 2C.

But yes, I totally get your point.

I was more making a loose parallel to another one of our recent 1st round picks.

 

[Lshap]

Hes playing with 2nd liners, Canes fans were ready to ship out Teuvo for scraps because he wasnt producing or doing anything with Aho on the first line. Now hes had a revival while playing with KK. Necas is great.

There is also a scenario in which Kotkaniemi is an actual contributor on a line and not carried by linemates.

Would suck to admit for most though, the copium is gigantic in here.

Kotkaniemi is still more of a passenger than a line-driver. Almost all his assists are secondary. That doesn't make him a bust, but let's not inflate him into more than he is. He's an unspectacular depth player, exactly the kind we used to make fun of Bergevin for overpaying. I'm happy to revisit my opinion if and when he develops into more.

 

[Mrb1p]

It is also possible, and IMO, probable, that's he's exactly who he is today had he made his NHL debut last year.

Only difference is he'd probably still be a Montreal Canadiens player and the perception about him as a player would be entirely different.

Fair. But wouldn't be the first time amateur draft sleuths got a player's ceiling wrong.

1C or 2C or 3C is often circumstancial.

Nick Suzuki is a 1C on *this* team but ideally, if you're a really strong team, he's probably more of a 2C.

But yes, I totally get your point.

I was more making a loose parallel to another one of our recent 1st round picks.

Yes I know what you were trying to do. I think the comparison is moot though, as KK had trice as many points as that guy in his rookie year, at a younger age, playing a tougher position, with lesser player, in a competitive team, for a coach that demands more of his player.

Also, you can keep living in your development NHL fantasy all you want, its okay, Im not gonna waste any more of my time.

 

[LaP]

Kotkaniemi is still more of a passenger than a line-driver. Almost all his assists are secondary. That doesn't make him a bust, but let's not inflate him into more than he is. He's an unspectacular depth player, exactly the kind we used to make fun of Bergevin for overpaying. I'm happy to revisit my opinion if and when he develops into more.

He doesn't have to be. People act like if the Cane paid four 1st round picks for him. Thay paid a late first and a 3rd round pick. That's about the same price we paid for Andrew Shaw (high 2nd and middle of the round 2nd) and less than we paid for Dvorak (late 1st and likely a high 2nd round pick). As it is he is paid a little bit too much but you can't expect much more than what JK is doing when you trade a late first and a 3rd round pick.

 

[LaP]

Nick Suzuki is a 1C on *this* team but ideally, if you're a really strong team, he's probably more of a 2C.

But yes, I totally get your point.

I was more making a loose parallel to another one of our recent 1st round picks.

I like Suzuki but people for now overrate him a little. Atm he looks like Koivu 2.0. A guy who's gonna be a weak 1st line center and a strong 2nd line center. Maybe there's still room for improvement but it is his 4th season and he'll be 24 this summer so i'd say if we don't see said improvement next season it's unlikely to be there. So far he looks like a 60 to 65 points guy with occasional 70 points seasons i.e. not a super strong 1st line center unless he develop into a selke defensively speaking.

 

[Mrb1p]

Kotkaniemi is still more of a passenger than a line-driver. Almost all his assists are secondary. That doesn't make him a bust, but let's not inflate him into more than he is. He's an unspectacular depth player, exactly the kind we used to make fun of Bergevin for overpaying. I'm happy to revisit my opinion if and when he develops into more.

Does he look like a passenger ? I mean, no, he's not an offensive dynamo, he never would have been and never will be, but he's clearly at the center of his lines production. It was also true when he wasn't producing.

He's literally the pivot they use on the 2nd wave PP.

I like Suzuki but people for now overrate him a little. Atm he looks like Koivu 2.0. A guy who's gonna be a weak 1st line center and a strong 2nd line center. Maybe there's still room for improvement but it is his 4th season and he'll be 24 this summer so i'd say if we don't see said improvement next season it's unlikely to be there. So far he looks like a 60 to 65 points guy with occasional 70 points seasons i.e. not a super strong 1st line center unless he develop into a selke defensively speaking.

You are guilty of doing the same thing as people do with KK. Result based analysis is one thing but it is not reality most of the time. Suzuki has Koivu like results, but the play on the ice isn't Koivu level, it's much more. Kotkaniemis production is third line level, but his play on ice has been much closer to 2C than that. (As evidenced by the Canes not buying a 2nd line C at the deadline.)

 

[417]

Yes I know what you were trying to do. I think the comparison is moot though, as KK had trice as many points as that guy in his rookie year, at a younger age, playing a tougher position, with lesser player, in a competitive team, for a coach that demands more of his player.

Also, you can keep living in your development NHL fantasy all you want, its okay, Im not gonna waste any more of my time.

This place is so weird sometimes...people can't have normal discussions without taking personal offense to a topic that has nothing to do with them lol

My development NHL fantasy?

WTF does that even mean lol

But for the record, the only reason you're not "wasting any more of your time", is because I just made you realize you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I like Suzuki but people for now overrate him a little. Atm he looks like Koivu 2.0. A guy who's gonna be a weak 1st line center and a strong 2nd line center. Maybe there's still room for improvement but it is his 4th season and he'll be 24 this summer so i'd say if we don't see said improvement next season it's unlikely to be there. So far he looks like a 60 to 65 points guy with occasional 70 points seasons i.e. not a super strong 1st line center unless he develop into a selke defensively speaking.

Well the only parallels I draw between Suzuki and Koivu is their lack of support around them and them being forced to have to put the team on their backs.

Suzuki looked at his best this season when he was playing with Caufield/Dach and Monahan was also in the lineup.

Right now, he's the main focus of every opponent...that's a tough assignment to carry on his own.

 

[LaP]

Well the only parallels I draw between Suzuki and Koivu is their lack of support around them and them being forced to have to put the team on their backs.

Suzuki looked at his best this season when he was playing with Caufield/Dach and Monahan was also in the lineup.

Right now, he's the main focus of every opponent...that's a tough assignment to carry on his own.

Well it's a good parallels because it's what i mean. I don't think Suzuki can be the best player of your team if you want to win a cup. And that's often what is asked of a 1st line center. I think he's more of a 3rd or 4th best player like when we went to the cup final and he was behind Price and Weber and next to Caufield. If he's your 3rd or 4th best player there's a good chance one of the guy in front of him will be a center.

 

[417]

Well it's a good parallels because it's what i mean. I don't think Suzuki can be the best player of your team if you want to win a cup. And that's often what is asked of a 1st line center. I think he's more of a 3rd or 4th best player like when we went to the cup final and he was behind Price and Weber and next to Caufield. If he's your 3rd or 4th best player there's a good chance one of the guy in front of him will be a center.

Oh agreed there...but I don't necessarily think to win a Cup the #1C has to be the best players.

If Suzuki is your #1C, you just need to make sure the rest of your roster is also strong.

The issue is when he's asked with carrying the entire load, it ain't going to work.

So short of having a McDavid or Crosby as your best player, there are other ways to build a contending team, IMO.