Out of Town Thread - New Year's Edition!

[Habs Halifax]

Beauvillier is a cap dump and has been for over a year.

The Canucks got a bare minimum return for Horvat.

Beau is not a cap dump. Not every middle 6 or bottom 6 contract are dumps. It was just a contract going the other way due to limited cap issues from across the NHL.

Bare minimum? I think not. This was a 1st that is not likely back of the bus and also a grade A asset who is in the NHL today. Think again. It's rare to get both a 1st and grade A asset for a rental.

 

[Ozmodiar]

This is a big win by the Islanders. Barzal and Horvat down the middle is solid!

Mid to late first plus Raty isn’t gonna change the franchise. Lou will happily give up those futures… he doesn’t even buy green bananas.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s better protected then I thought

Me too. They are in a playoff race so their pick could be top 12. Smart

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is a big win by the Islanders. Barzal and Horvat down the middle is solid!

Mid to late first plus Raty isn’t gonna change the franchise. Lou will happily give up those futures… he doesn’t even buy green bananas.

I bet you Barzal moves to Horvat's wing. Nelson at 2C should no be touched. That guy can play just as well as Danault can and a case can be made, he's better than Danault.

 

[Habz4]

What if this trade helps the Canucks tank and they en up with a top 5 pick or maybe even Bedard if they get lucky

 

[Habs Halifax]

What if this trade helps the Canucks tank and they en up with a top 5 pick or maybe even Bedard if they get lucky

Canucks were already tanking with their weak D. Tocchet will be trying to get them to play a more grittier game but it's limited due to how their D is so weak. Can he change that? Not sure. MSL helped the Habs last year but we still finished last.

 

[donghabs98]

This comment would not spark must confidence in me if I was a Canucks fan.

 

[ReHabs]

This comment would not spark must confidence in me if I was a Canucks fan.

This was a very bad return. They flubbed it big time.

 

[1909]

This was a very bad return. They flubbed it big time.

They hardly could had done better, even if they could have easked for one of their actual d-man. Horvat is UFA next July. Isles might lose him. Let's say he is a Isle until the end of the Playoffs (if they make them).

 

[ReHabs]

They hardly could had done better, even if they could have easked for one of their actual d-man. Horvat is UFA next July. Isles might lose him. Let's say he is a Isle until the end of the Playoffs (if they make them).

Selling a UFA PPG two way C should net more than two throw-ins and a top-12 protected first round pick.

 

[The Great Weal]

Selling a UFA PPG two way C should net more than two throw-ins and a top-12 protected first round pick.

I don't think Raty is a throw in, he's a solid prospect and frankly probably one of the Canucks better ones at the moment. UFAs just don't get a crazy return even if they are great players. This would be a weak return if Bo came with an extension. The Isles 1st will be better than any other 1st they receive, and I don't think the difference between Raty and the other prospects offered by other teams makes up for that difference.

 

[ReHabs]

I don't think Raty is a throw in, he's a solid prospect and frankly probably one of the Canucks better ones at the moment. UFAs just don't get a crazy return even if they are great players. This would be a weak return if Bo came with an extension. The Isles 1st will be better than any other 1st they receive, and I don't think the difference between Raty and the other prospects offered by other teams makes up for that difference.

If this is the price to get a PPG+ C who is a leader and two-way reliable, then Bergevin’s failure to get a C after ten years is even more pathetic.

But that’s in the past. At this low low price even the Habs could’ve acquired Horvat and it would’ve made sense — he’d be a perfect top6 C for any team, including the Habs.

If he is interested in an extension, FLA 1st (top12 protected) + Roy + Hoffman for Horvat would be a major coup.

 

[The Great Weal]

If this is the price to get a PPG+ C who is a leader and two-way reliable, then Bergevin’s failure to get a C after ten years is even more pathetic.

But that’s in the past. At this low low price even the Habs could’ve acquired Horvat and it would’ve made sense — he’d be a perfect top6 C for any team, including the Habs.

If he is interested in an extension, FLA 1st (top12 protected) + Roy + Hoffman for Horvat would be a major coup.

I think Marc Bergevin sucked ass in the sense that he never wanted to give up assets for legit help, but there really weren't any options for rental PPG centers when we were competing. I remember the year we got Jordan Weal he ended up having the most amount of points out of all the players that got traded at the deadline.

This is Horvat without an extension, rumor is he wants over 8 million when he's having a career year. I'm not taking that chance when we are still rebuilding. Makes way more sense to go for PLD.

 

[donghabs98]

I think Marc Bergevin sucked ass in the sense that he never wanted to give up assets for legit help, but there really weren't any options for rental PPG centers when we were competing. I remember the year we got Jordan Weal he ended up having the most amount of points out of all the players that got traded at the deadline.

This is Horvat without an extension, rumor is he wants over 8 million when he's having a career year. I'm not taking that chance when we are still rebuilding. Makes way more sense to go for PLD.

You got me thinking and I took a quick look at the 2015, 2017 and 2019 deadline when a case could have been made for the Habs to add players (although 2019 is debatable as we were a bubble team in a "retooling year").

2019 was the year where Duchene was the big fish and considering the team was on the bubble, I can see why Bergevin didnt make a move for him. Hayes was also another option on the market. Stone was moved but doubt Ottawa was moving him here.
2017 was a bit of a let down in terms of high end talent. Hanzal was the big fish and the Wild paid a high price for him. An argument could be made that Vanek could have been a cheap add.
2015 was a weak year for forwards as well.

Now I just looked at players who were traded. A bigger argument can be made that Bergevin didnt want to pay up for players who were avaliable but not moved and players who were moved in the offseason. Unfortunately the only time he did ship a prospect for a forward on the block was the Drouin trade whicb flopped.

 

[ReHabs]

You got me thinking and I took a quick look at the 2015, 2017 and 2019 deadline when a case could have been made for the Habs to add players (although 2019 is debatable as we were a bubble team in a "retooling year").

2019 was the year where Duchene was the big fish and considering the team was on the bubble, I can see why Bergevin didnt make a move for him. Hayes was also another option on the market. Stone was moved but doubt Ottawa was moving him here.
2017 was a bit of a let down in terms of high end talent. Hanzal was the big fish and the Wild paid a high price for him. An argument could be made that Vanek could have been a cheap add.
2015 was a weak year for forwards as well.

Now I just looked at players who were traded. A bigger argument can be made that Bergevin didnt want to pay up for players who were avaliable but not moved and players who were moved in the offseason. Unfortunately the only time he did ship a prospect for a forward on the block was the Drouin trade whicb flopped.

Whiffing on ROR was a very dumb move and we never know what was available and never moved.

 

[The Great Weal]

You got me thinking and I took a quick look at the 2015, 2017 and 2019 deadline when a case could have been made for the Habs to add players (although 2019 is debatable as we were a bubble team in a "retooling year").

2019 was the year where Duchene was the big fish and considering the team was on the bubble, I can see why Bergevin didnt make a move for him. Hayes was also another option on the market. Stone was moved but doubt Ottawa was moving him here.
2017 was a bit of a let down in terms of high end talent. Hanzal was the big fish and the Wild paid a high price for him. An argument could be made that Vanek could have been a cheap add.
2015 was a weak year for forwards as well.

Now I just looked at players who were traded. A bigger argument can be made that Bergevin didnt want to pay up for players who were avaliable but not moved and players who were moved in the offseason. Unfortunately the only time he did ship a prospect for a forward on the block was the Drouin trade whicb flopped.

The offseason is a completely different story. There is zero excuse not to trade for Schenn or ROR. Staal looked cooked with the Rangers so I can't really blame him, but the other two is really bad to miss out on. You'd think even if we had to severely overpay, he would have done that since it was a pathetic center depth.

Like you said, the only time he had the balls to trade something worth anything was Sergachev. He was never proactive and waited until ALL the picks and prospects lost their value before trading them.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I'm sure you guys have discussed this to death but I'm just trying to simplify the Monahan pick conditions.

Montreal has the option to take Calgarys first in 2024 if it is in the range of 20-32 overall. If its not, or they decline, it moves to 2025 or 2026. And then it gets very complicated.

Do you think Hughes would take the pick in 2024 or defer for a chance at a higher pick?

 

[CDN24]

I'm sure you guys have discussed this to death but I'm just trying to simplify the Monahan pick conditions.

Montreal has the option to take Calgarys first in 2024 if it is in the range of 20-32 overall. If its not, or they decline, it moves to 2025 or 2026. And then it gets very complicated.

Do you think Hughes would take the pick in 2024 or defer for a chance at a higher pick?

I think he will wait but in the meantime he has an effective lien on Calgary's 2024 pick until he decides (he has up until a couple days before the draft i think) It makes it harder for Calgary to trade that pick at next years or even this years deadline as it will need conditions that takes him into the 2025 mess.

Edit plus in 2025 he gets the better of the 2 picks which effectively precludes Calgary from trading the Florida pick or their own too. he really tied up Flames future options there with that deal

 

[JianYang]

Whiffing on ROR was a very dumb move and we never know what was available and never moved.

Montreal does not have much of a trading history with certain teams, especially certain division rivals such as Buffalo. I can't remember the last noteworthy trade between these two teams.

There is certainly increased trepidation between rival teams trying to trade. Nobody wants to be the guy seen as being responsible for putting the rival over.

I had the same thought with people claiming monahan to Ottawa was a realistic idea.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Yeah I think Vancouver got a pretty underwhelming return. It's not awful and Raty is a nice get but the best asset they received is a likely mid-late teens 1st rounder. Pretty weak especially when Vancouver is eating Beauvillier's contract. For comparison's sake, that return isn't much better than what we got for Chiarot, Smilanic vs Raty is obviously lopsided but the 1st is theoretically less valuable with the protection, and Beauvillier is probably a net zero in value. It's definitely worse than what we got for Toffoli as well.

It's possible that the market was just cooler than we expected and that teams are valuing him at his career averages so I won't go as far as to say it's an awful trade, but that return isn't anything particularly special. Even more strange given the Canucks are doing this trade a month before the deadline, eating Beauvillier's contract when they have a glut of overpaid middle six wingers already, and even gave NYI the courtesy of retaining 25%. Unless Raty is a guy that's going to truly blossom over the next couple of years it's pretty middling as a return.

 

[EXPOS123]

Montreal does not have much of a trading history with certain teams, especially certain division rivals such as Buffalo. I can't remember the last noteworthy trade between these two teams.

There is certainly increased trepidation between rival teams trying to trade. Nobody wants to be the guy seen as being responsible for putting the rival over.

I had the same thought with people claiming monahan to Ottawa was a realistic idea.

Never really understood this line of thinking. At the end of the day, you have to do what’s best for your club and not worry about how it affects the other club regardless of what division they are in.

Beggars can’t be choosy

 

[Habs]

Beauvilier is not a great hockey player, Canucks certainly have some answering to do for the fans. Why not wait till the deadline and wait it out? Looks like a Bergy move, didn't see what the market had to offer and jumped at the first doable move. Canucks are a brutal organization

 

[ReHabs]

Montreal does not have much of a trading history with certain teams, especially certain division rivals such as Buffalo. I can't remember the last noteworthy trade between these two teams.

There is certainly increased trepidation between rival teams trying to trade. Nobody wants to be the guy seen as being responsible for putting the rival over.

I had the same thought with people claiming monahan to Ottawa was a realistic idea.

I’m not in the business of making excuses for Bergevin’s decade long inability to add talent to this team’s roster — but I appreciate where you’re coming from.

 

[Wats]

I think teams usually take the earlier pick. I feel like they'll take 2024 but hope they just keep it and see how high it gets.

 

[salbutera]

Montreal does not have much of a trading history with certain teams, especially certain division rivals such as Buffalo. I can't remember the last noteworthy trade between these two teams.

There is certainly increased trepidation between rival teams trying to trade. Nobody wants to be the guy seen as being responsible for putting the rival over.

I had the same thought with people claiming monahan to Ottawa was a realistic idea.

Especially when Sabres owner (Pegula) per Friedman, LeBrun et al wanted ROR traded out of the conference, same demand from owner a couple of years later w Eichel fiasco

Never really understood this line of thinking. At the end of the day, you have to do what’s best for your club and not worry about how it affects the other club regardless of what division they are in.

Beggars can’t be choosy

Because if a GM wants to stay gainfully employed they do as ordered by the owner, or start seeking alternate employment