Ottawa 67's 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)
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gadder
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- Oct 15, 2023
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With all the additions here's how I see it:
- Gardiner goes from 1st/2nd line centre to 3rd. A demotion? No, that's where he does his best work.
- a 5/6 of Smyth/Sirman will work as a eat-up-a-minute-safely pair
- Yani, Whitehead, Horner should get the 4th line roles for their dynamism and hutzpah
- there's no room for Houden, Dietsch, Korbler, Nelson (once Mac is back)
A much better team now. Lets see how it all gels.
- Gardiner goes from 1st/2nd line centre to 3rd. A demotion? No, that's where he does his best work.
- a 5/6 of Smyth/Sirman will work as a eat-up-a-minute-safely pair
- Yani, Whitehead, Horner should get the 4th line roles for their dynamism and hutzpah
- there's no room for Houden, Dietsch, Korbler, Nelson (once Mac is back)
A much better team now. Lets see how it all gels.
OMG67
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I really don’t feel there will be a strong distinction made in the top 3 lines at all. It will be relatively balanced. Maybe the line Pinelli is on will be the #1 line because it will likely produce more goals?
I think the top 8 forwards are pretty obvious. Most feel Dever will be the 9th when he returns from injury. Whitehead will centre the 4th line so we likely have our top 10 forwards set.
Who are the other two? Good question! I think Korbler and Kelly have the inside track because of the investment made in those two players. The 67’s need to know where they fit in next year (or potentially “not” in the case of Korbler). That leaves Hilton and Yanni. Once Dever is back, I think Yanni goes to Tier II. Maybe Hilton as well. Both will likely practice with Ottawa and play for their Tier II team. Horner will be used as the #8 D-Man and spare winger if there is an injury which should keep Yanni and Hilton in Tier II.
I think Sirman and Smyth are the 5th and 6th D-Men but I have a sense that they may try to put Mews with Smyth. That would likely put Mayich with Marrelli and Mayer with Sirman. A little bit of a different look but I think they will run with that 5 on 5. Or at least some sort of not traditional set of pairings.
Donoso being hammered in his debut for Windsor down 7-2 pulled after the 7th goal. 7 goals on 21 shots.
Lawrence playing for London.
Ewles not in lineup for Flint.
Lawrence playing for London.
Ewles not in lineup for Flint.
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OMG67
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I’m going to throw out a caveat to what we are saying regarding the 67’s selling next year. The following is out draft pick chart from 2025 to 2028 (the accessible to trade picks).
We have the big hole in 2026. But, as someone said, we will have some ‘04s available next year at the beginning of the season. Smyth and Sirman are strong candidates that will garner some strong interest at the beginning of the season. I think we could fill the empty 4th and 5th with those two which leaves us with a 2nd and two 3rds blank.
If Stonehouse returns, we will have him, Gerrior, Mayich and MacKenzie. It is very possible we could get the 2nd and 3rd for one of them which leaves us with only the empty 3rd round pick. That is only trading away the 4th OA.
As much as I don’t agree with the strategy, I could see a scenario where Boyd doesn’t sell at all! He could keep three quality OA’s, all of his 19 year olds and just run out the season and finish the season missing only a 3rd round pick in 2027.
I do not endorse that strategy. I think we do a full sell, but there is a road to not selling at all other than the excess ‘04s.
| 2025 | NIA 2nd | OS 3rd | PBO 4th | KGN 5th |
| 2026 | --- | --- | --- | 5th |
| 2027 | LDN 2nd | --- | 4th | --- |
| 2028 | 2nd | 3rd | 4th | 5th |
We have the big hole in 2026. But, as someone said, we will have some ‘04s available next year at the beginning of the season. Smyth and Sirman are strong candidates that will garner some strong interest at the beginning of the season. I think we could fill the empty 4th and 5th with those two which leaves us with a 2nd and two 3rds blank.
If Stonehouse returns, we will have him, Gerrior, Mayich and MacKenzie. It is very possible we could get the 2nd and 3rd for one of them which leaves us with only the empty 3rd round pick. That is only trading away the 4th OA.
As much as I don’t agree with the strategy, I could see a scenario where Boyd doesn’t sell at all! He could keep three quality OA’s, all of his 19 year olds and just run out the season and finish the season missing only a 3rd round pick in 2027.
I do not endorse that strategy. I think we do a full sell, but there is a road to not selling at all other than the excess ‘04s.
We also have the Flint- in 24. Yes we do not have to sell as we would be competitive next year but no way we can push Missy/Brantford in particular. So we SHOULD sell but I suspect we will see a partial sell only unless Boyd gets a mandate to build a team specifically for the new arena.
beastintheeast
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- Mar 27, 2013
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Unless the hockey gods all of a sudden over the off season bless a lot of 67's with hockey prowess beyond their present abilities I do not see this team being competitive with Branford or Mississauga.
Therefore, I think we are going to see Boyd selling next year. The interesting point will be who do they keep as OA.
the possible OA are
Stonehouse although I think he will be in the AHL
Gerrior
Smyth
Sirman
Mackenzie
Michelone
I think we will start the season with 3 OA
Sirman
Mayich
Mich
If we are rebuilding, then I can see a path that has them trade Mack and Gerrior out of training camp with Michelone and Nelson in nets.
Unless we get a good center in the Euro draft, we will need an experienced center. The question then becomes which other OA we trade or let go.
Next years line up
Pinelli Gardner Dever
Barlas Foster Kelly
Yanni Whitehead Korbler
Hilton draft pick draft pick
Houben
Marelli Mews
Mayich(OA) Brady
Dietsch horner
Sirman(OA) draft pick
Michelone (OA)
Nelson
My thinking is that they could trade Mack and Gerrior. We can get a center, hopefully, a 19-year-old, but probably an OA. That would leave us with 4 OA, but he can then look at possibly trading Sirman down the line or by the deadline to go to 3 we might have a buyer for Maryich. We are in a position that we have not been in in a while with an abundance of OA.
25/26 is not going to look any rosier but it could be interesting, depending on what Columbus and the Pens do. Therefore, no matter what I think next year at this time we have to SELL SELL SELL
I agree with the sell, sell, sell beast. But I think we start the year with 3 of Mayich/Stoney ( if returns), Gerrior and Mac. They will have more value at the deadline. I think they keep Gerrior for leadership, he's the heart of this team and local boy. Sirman and Smyth are likely gone before the season imo and as for Michelone he's a placeholder this year and don't know if he really would have much value for trade. Might just be released.
Can't wait to see the new players tomorrow and with Foster back saturday ( maybe Dever I heard at rink last week), we might have a full lineup...anybody remember that?
beastintheeast
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If we can get reasonable tending out of Mich and Nelson, it might be an idea to get rid of TRADE MACK as soon as possible. Look what we went through with Donoso. Also, we are going to need 2 goalies, so why not use what we have?
As to Stonehouse, there is no way they are going to sign a player and then send him back to the OHL. He will start in Bakersfield with Hoef next year.
Keeping Mayich, Gerrior, and a goalie is nice if you can afford it, BUT unless we are going to go the whole season or to the deadline with Foster as a center, we are going to need a center. That means that we are either going to get a Euro that can play 2nd line. get a 19-year-old in a trade, or we have to get an OA.
I think the OA is probably the way we will have to go. In that case, we need to trade Gerrior, Mayich or MacK and go with Nelson in the nets for the season.
I'm sure there is a plan for next year; despite the buying this year Boyd somehow came out maintaining the integrity in the draft cupboard. The resources are not so depleted that they need to be sellers, in fact it is better now than it was to start this season. 3-2nds, 2-3rds, 3-4ths and a pair of 1st rounders. The Beck and Defective player transactions improved things but some of those moves will be available next year as well.
I wouldn't get to uptight about the OA situation until the season is over, there are a lot of things that can happen between now and then, and it will. When it comes to signed players, the $80K difference to an NHL operating budget means nothing. They will do what they think is best for his development. Until him and Mayich demonstrate some level of dominance at the OHL level there is value in them staying.
Getting away from the business and back on the hockey side of things, now that a few players are back in line with where they should have been playing the flow and tempo should improve for them. The only question mark at this point is that have gotten smaller again in the forward group which could present some challenges in the playoffs. Overall they have gotten much better IMO.
I wouldn't get to uptight about the OA situation until the season is over, there are a lot of things that can happen between now and then, and it will. When it comes to signed players, the $80K difference to an NHL operating budget means nothing. They will do what they think is best for his development. Until him and Mayich demonstrate some level of dominance at the OHL level there is value in them staying.
Getting away from the business and back on the hockey side of things, now that a few players are back in line with where they should have been playing the flow and tempo should improve for them. The only question mark at this point is that have gotten smaller again in the forward group which could present some challenges in the playoffs. Overall they have gotten much better IMO.
ecraigs
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- Dec 6, 2013
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Every once in a while, a name pops out of the commentary of an NHL game and reminds you of players and teams. Yesterday, it was Nikita Okhotyuk, who has toiled mightily to get back to the Show and now plays for San Jose. Drafted in the 2nd round by the Devils in 2019.
NordiquesForeva
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- May 30, 2022
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I thought Boyd had a really strong deadline. I'll give him a B+ for ruthlessly upgrading the OA slots and completing the defense's top-4 and significantly improving our centre depth. The Ewles trade yesterday was an excellent piece of business too, getting a great return on a player who didn't quite seem to find his footing in Ottawa.
The only thing holding him back from an A grade is not upgrading on our import slot (Korbler), and not improving team size/physicality. Given the smoke around Mayich, I'll give Boyd the benefit of the doubt that he may have had something cooking one the import situation but wasn't able to pull the trigger for whatever reason.
The focus will now turn back to hockey and seeing how this team gels. Tough road trip this weekend, with 3 games in 3 days against strong competition. Getting MacKenzie back soon will be critical, Foster can return for the 3rd game this weekend, and Dever's return should give us a glimpse of how Cameron's views his completed lineup. It'll take a few weeks for this team to get going, but when they do I'd like to see them gun for the division title and #2 seed in the eastern conference.
OMG67
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First, there is the “option” to not to a sell next year. We went into this whole deadline thinking it was a buyer year that would need to be followed with a seller year. I am only pointing out that considering the excess OA’s as well as some decent OA’s, we could get away with selling nothing but excess OA’s and mostly refill the draft pick holes. Do I think this is what we should do? No. I think we should fully take advantage if it is a seller market.
Second, Beast, you are not considering the sell value of players at different times of the year. If you have high value players, their value is highest at the deadline. It would make no sense to trade the high value OA’s until closer to the deadline. For example, we managed to get a 2nd and 3rd for Beck at the beginning of the season. He is a league leading scorer sitting in 11th place right now. We paid a 2nd, two 3rds and a 5th for Maillet. If we had kept Beck through the deadline and traded him then, he would have been worth considerably more than what we originally traded him for. I am not saying we should have kept him against his wishes but using that as an example of value difference.
We also have the option to retain FIVE OA’s through mid-November and FOUR OA’s through the deadline. Since one of our OA’s is likely a goalie (MacK), we can strategically sit him on days he isn’t starting. It is not an ideal situation to rotate that many OA’s but it is an “option.” If all of the ‘04s do return for an OA season, we will have four that will have high value and 2 that will have ok value. I doubt Michelone will have any value. He was worth a deadline 12th as a 19 year old…
In the case of retaining four OA’s, we could do it through the beginning of December and likely get a similar value to deadline value for the 4th guy. The market will have emerged by then. Teams will know where they stand. If a pre-season offer is available that makes sense, then cool. But the options o retain right through the deadline is there as well.
Second, Beast, you are not considering the sell value of players at different times of the year. If you have high value players, their value is highest at the deadline. It would make no sense to trade the high value OA’s until closer to the deadline. For example, we managed to get a 2nd and 3rd for Beck at the beginning of the season. He is a league leading scorer sitting in 11th place right now. We paid a 2nd, two 3rds and a 5th for Maillet. If we had kept Beck through the deadline and traded him then, he would have been worth considerably more than what we originally traded him for. I am not saying we should have kept him against his wishes but using that as an example of value difference.
We also have the option to retain FIVE OA’s through mid-November and FOUR OA’s through the deadline. Since one of our OA’s is likely a goalie (MacK), we can strategically sit him on days he isn’t starting. It is not an ideal situation to rotate that many OA’s but it is an “option.” If all of the ‘04s do return for an OA season, we will have four that will have high value and 2 that will have ok value. I doubt Michelone will have any value. He was worth a deadline 12th as a 19 year old…
In the case of retaining four OA’s, we could do it through the beginning of December and likely get a similar value to deadline value for the 4th guy. The market will have emerged by then. Teams will know where they stand. If a pre-season offer is available that makes sense, then cool. But the options o retain right through the deadline is there as well.
Not sure what the reasoning is for nest season will be a "sell" year...
IMO. nest year's team has the potential to be a much stronger team than the current edition this season, even after the trades.
Will re-iterate my previous points:
We all know that age is really important in this league, and we are poised to have a core bunch of 05s (The heart of this current team) with really good 06s and a lot of viable overage options. next year. That team could be really experienced, and the average age much higher...
Here are some of my thoughts pointing to next year, as the go-to season
- We could have the likely top OHL goalie, Mackenzie as an OA
- We could re-address the import situation and get something of value that can contribute immediately, Maybe we also bring back a 19 yo Uronen.
- Our 05s would be in their 19yo season (Pinelli, Foster, Dever, Barlas, Gardiner). This is the heart of our team.
- Hank and Frank (18 yo season) will become dominant with another season (and playoffs) experience under their belt. They both will have likely been drafted.
- MacKenzie, Gerroir, Mayich are likely our OAs; there still could be a small percentage chance Stoney returns too
- Whitehead, Brady, Dietsch are all good prospect, developing well; they would all be a year older next year
- Nelson is projecting to be a promising backup goalie
The current shortage of centres, of course would need to be addressed
IMO. nest year's team has the potential to be a much stronger team than the current edition this season, even after the trades.
Will re-iterate my previous points:
We all know that age is really important in this league, and we are poised to have a core bunch of 05s (The heart of this current team) with really good 06s and a lot of viable overage options. next year. That team could be really experienced, and the average age much higher...
Here are some of my thoughts pointing to next year, as the go-to season
- We could have the likely top OHL goalie, Mackenzie as an OA
- We could re-address the import situation and get something of value that can contribute immediately, Maybe we also bring back a 19 yo Uronen.
- Our 05s would be in their 19yo season (Pinelli, Foster, Dever, Barlas, Gardiner). This is the heart of our team.
- Hank and Frank (18 yo season) will become dominant with another season (and playoffs) experience under their belt. They both will have likely been drafted.
- MacKenzie, Gerroir, Mayich are likely our OAs; there still could be a small percentage chance Stoney returns too
- Whitehead, Brady, Dietsch are all good prospect, developing well; they would all be a year older next year
- Nelson is projecting to be a promising backup goalie
The current shortage of centres, of course would need to be addressed
Stonehouse is not nearly as pro ready as A.Xhekaj.
Stonehouse might be slightly more pro ready than F.Xhekaj, VanSteensel, Melee, Veccia, …might be
OMG67
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Nothing wrong with this assessment which is why I pointed to our relatively decent Picks Cabinet going forward Combined with our potential ability to fully restock it using our excess OAs should they all return.
No one can argue against the positives you have presented. Assuming The OA’s to return as expected, I see no reason to poke any holes in your argument with respect to evaluating the 67’s roster and its capabilities.
The only issue is the competitive balance next year. That’s it. That has always been it. There are two particular teams set to explode (Missy and Brantford), who are loaded with picks and poised to blow them all next year. There are two other teams in a very good situation with a decent amount of ammo to do some damage (Oshawa and Kingston). So, the competitive landscape will not be dissimilar to what we saw last year With a larger group of teams in a very competitive part of their cycle.
The second issue you pointed out is their depth and effectiveness at centre. That is a weak spot. If the goal is to simply do well, they can acquire one centre (not an OA so it will be a high cost - likely in the range of two 2nds and three 3rds). This will get them to the payoffs and they will be competitive in round one, enough so to maybe win the round. If their goal is to be competitive enough to win round two, they will need two centres (both 19 year old because we have no OA space). Then we get into the category of needing to trade at least one of our first round picks from next years draft. I am not comfortable with that. At all. Not when Missy and Brantford can also do it but also add multiple 2nds (Missy 8 & Brantford 10 to Ottawa’s 3). Nope. Sorry. Not getting in between those two as they engage in their bidding war. I think we sit in a good position battling Kingston and Oshawa for the 3-5 seeds with Barrie lurking around the corner possibly joining our little second tier group. Adding one centre to stay in that group is fine. Cool with that. Adding two 19 year old centres? No.
So, if we add perspective, we can easily maintain our position in that second tier of teams that sit in around that 3rd through 6th seeding. I am very comfortable with what you said keeping us well inside that group. What it comes down to is how much are we willing to spend to elevate ourselves up to that top tier? Realistically, that is all of our picks and both of our 2024 1st rounders. You and I both know that is never going to happen. So, we either be satisfied to maintain our competitiveness and maybe add a centre and call it a day. Win a round in the playoffs Etc. Call it a good season. OR we sell, fall out of that second tier, and maybe rebuild our cabinet to match what both Brantford and Missy look like now. We give ourselves a fighting chance at a championship in the future.
Those are the two choices. I am fine with either to be honest. If we stay somewhat status quo next year, we can sell the following year with Mews and Marrelli.
BUT! Imagine what this team woudl look like if we were to sell next year and add another 1st round ‘08? Then the next year pick a high ‘09, sell Mews and Marrelli and get another two 1st rounder ‘09s? We’d have six first round picks over 2 drafts to use as a foundation for a future team. That does intrigue me from a strategy perspective. I’d be ok with that option too.
With the players that have been added we will get a very good idea of what the core group is in the 2nd half. How the core players perform and mature through this time period will dictate what it may be capable of next year. Boyd added just enough to find this out but not enough to really push the team over the hump IMO.
These next few months will be telling.
These next few months will be telling.
OMG67
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Drafting an older import next year could definitely be an option to fill the centre role. That would require trading or moving on from Korbler, if Uronen is back. Conversely if we had an import spot open, the cost for an 18 or 19 yo import centre wouldn't be as high.
OMG67
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Drafting an Older Import does have some upside in performance but it is coupled with a lot of risk. Normally the Imports that can provide an impact, especially at premium positions, will also have AHL options because the older Imports are NHL picks.
If the NHL team feels the player is close to th eNHL, they encourage them to play AHL. If they are not close, they maintain their rights longer if they remain in Europe. So, the 19 year old Imports are a tough sell. 18 year old imports still have a learning curve and the risk is they won’t be as competitive. The 67’s are poised to pick well into the back half of the Import Draft. that is handcuffing. All the best older Imports that are coming over or slated to come over go in the first 20 or so picks. Ottawa will likely be picking around 40-50.
I see Ottawa looking to add a 17 year old that will grow for two years and play an integral role for the 2026-27 season as a 19 year old. That guy will be aligned with the ‘07 age group And will help fill the gap left behind by HB when he defected.
He will be back for the second game saturday
beastintheeast
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Edmonton saw something that said he filled a need. Looking at their team he definitely will fit in. If not Ottawa is screwed with too many oa.
OMG67
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I thin we can find some perspective on where this team stands now. IMO, I think this team is in a similar situation to where they were pre-deadline last year. I think this team, as constructed compares very favourably. If we pull Morrison and Mintyukov off the roster (deadline acquisitions), how does this team shape up against last year?
The key players that graduated:
Tolnai - Replaced with Maillet
Boucher - Hardly played. Only 21 games. No need to really replace
Rohrer - Replaced with Kressler
Matier - Replaced with Mayer
That leaves Beck and Costantini. The additional development of Pinelli replaces Beck’s production. The increased production from the remainder of the roster (Foster, Mews, Marrelli and Gerrior have shown significant improvement)
I will suggest that MAtier was more impactful than Mayer. But, Kressler is likely more impactful than Rohrer.
I really don’t feel this team right now, one year older and more experienced, is as good or close to as good as the 67’s pre-deadline last year. That team was a .700+ win%.
The key players that graduated:
Tolnai - Replaced with Maillet
Boucher - Hardly played. Only 21 games. No need to really replace
Rohrer - Replaced with Kressler
Matier - Replaced with Mayer
That leaves Beck and Costantini. The additional development of Pinelli replaces Beck’s production. The increased production from the remainder of the roster (Foster, Mews, Marrelli and Gerrior have shown significant improvement)
I will suggest that MAtier was more impactful than Mayer. But, Kressler is likely more impactful than Rohrer.
I really don’t feel this team right now, one year older and more experienced, is as good or close to as good as the 67’s pre-deadline last year. That team was a .700+ win%.
I’m not sure there is such a thing as too many good OAs on one team. Hamilton & Peterborough managed to sell four each
OMG67
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Yeah but you have to go through the hassle of talking to teams about trades. Then, after you make the trades, you end up with all those extra draft picks and all the work associated to who you pick with them or who you trade for when you flip those picks.
It is more of a burden than you think. When you have no OA’s, and no picks, life is easier as an OHL GM.
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