Ottawa 67's 2023-2024 Off-Season Thread (Part 2)

[OMG67]

If it’s all politics, why have they won 4 out of the last 7 golds?

The better question is why haven’t they won 7 out of the last 7 golds….

It is no different than Team USA. How many CHL players have been omitted from that roster because they chose to play outside the team USA Program?

 

[ScoutLife4]

If it’s all politics, why have they won 4 out of the last 7 golds?

Not because of Dave Cameron if that's what you think.

Why didn't his stacked team get past the 2nd round in 2022?
Lots of ways to spin things.

 

[ScoutLife4]

For real though.
Do you think Dave Cameron is a stronger coach then below?

Dale Hunter
Jay McKee
Troy Mann
Ryan Oulahen
Chris Lazary
Rob Wilson

What makes him so superior to everyone else @BarberPole9
I'd personally put him at the bottom of that list and that’s without me even going into all the Whl and Q coaches.

I'm not hating on DC if that's what you think but it a contributing factor in the decision that’s he’s also coaching in the host city and had a previous relationship with HC.

I just don't believe in the fantasy that being Canada's WJ coach means he's the best coach in Canada or some wild shit like that.

 

[dirty12]

For real though.
Do you think Dave Cameron is a stronger coach then below?

Dale Hunter
Jay McKee
Troy Mann
Ryan Oulahen
Chris Lazary
Rob Wilson

What makes him so superior to everyone else @BarberPole9
I'd personally put him at the bottom of that list.

I'm not hating on DC if that's what you think.
I was actually defending him earlier in this thread lol.
I just don't believe in the fantasy that being Canada's WJ coach means he's the best coach in Canada or some wild shit like that.

Cameron belongs on that list imo.
I’d have Wilson at the bottom of that list.
Mann has not proved that he belongs on that list of OHL coaches.
Oulahen is an excellent communicator that has had success in a good battalion system he helped build with Dennis and Butler, and has been in place a dozen years pretty much unchanged.

 

[OMG67]

Cameron belongs on that list imo.
I’d have Wilson at the bottom of that list.
Mann has not proved that he belongs on that list of OHL coaches.
Oulahen is an excellent communicator that has had success in a good battalion system he helped build with Dennis and Butler, and has been in place a dozen years pretty much unchanged.

I mostly agree with this. I think the list is missing Richmond.

The issue for some with Cameron is he is a little more old school. So, if he is somewhat old school then where is Butler with respect to rankings? What about Williamson?

The one aspect a lot of people don’t point out is the ability of the GM to work with the Coach. Clearly Boyd and Cameron have a good working relationship and they trust each other so there is something to be said about the duo of GM/Coach.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Cameron belongs on that list imo.
I’d have Wilson at the bottom of that list.
Mann has not proved that he belongs on that list of OHL coaches.
Oulahen is an excellent communicator that has had success in a good battalion system he helped build with Dennis and Butler, and has been in place a dozen years pretty much unchanged.

Wilson and Mann are both proven professional quality coaches regardless of their OHL status.
My point being there is more then enough capable coaches deserving of a HC coaching gig.

I don't see what sets him so far ahead of everyone else other then he's already in Ottawa for the holidays.

Williamson also another good coach.
Completely missed Richmond my bad.

Anyway the point was not to knock Cameron as he is a great coach.
I was just mentioning I do think he struggles to get that 110% out of players at times. -Yes an argument can be made about roster design. -But he's involved in that so it's no excuse either.

 

[dirty12]

I mostly agree with this. I think the list is missing Richmond.

The issue for some with Cameron is he is a little more old school. So, if he is somewhat old school then where is Butler with respect to rankings? What about Williamson?

The one aspect a lot of people don’t point out is the ability of the GM to work with the Coach. Clearly Boyd and Cameron have a good working relationship and they trust each other so there is something to be said about the duo of GM/Coach.

A few coaches could be added to that list, for sure.
Richmond is the best developer of defencemen imo. The otters’ have bought into what Butler is teaching.

All coaches and GMs need to be on the same page, I think.
I’d say Williamson is a top executive that has a strong belief in a system and the type of players required.

 

[Larionov]

Out of curiosity, if he struggles getting the most out of his teams why did Team Canada tab him as its HC for the World Juniors? Genuine question.

The suggestion that Cameron can't get the most out of his teams is funny given that the big season the 67's had two years ago was completely unexpected. Absolutely no one had Ottawa on their pre-season list of OHL top dogs, and he goes out and wins the regular season title. They ended up losing out to a heavier, more experienced team that underachieved all year, but to me that was the best example of Cameron getting the absolute most out of a lineup that most had tabbed as a middle of the pack team. Quirky dude? Sure, but a brilliant teacher and tactician, and he genuinely cares about the kids. Hockey Canada didn't give him the job this year out of sympathy or the thought that it was "his turn" - they wanted him and sought him out..

 

[OMG67]

Wilson and Mann are both proven professional quality coaches regardless of their OHL status.
My point being there is more then enough capable coaches deserving of a HC coaching gig.

I don't see what sets him so far ahead of everyone else other then he's already in Ottawa for the holidays.

Williamson also another good coach.
Completely missed Richmond my bad.

Anyway the point was not to knock Cameron as he is a great coach.
I was just mentioning I do think he struggles to get that 110% out of players at times. -Yes an argument can be made about roster design. -But he's involved in that so it's no excuse either.

I don’t think anyone can deny that politics plays a huge role in a lot of decisions at a macro level with Hockey Canada. Thsoe political decisions filter down to the micro level as well because a lot of relationships are built at high levels that filter down with many of the guiding decisions.

Hockey super agents have a lot to do with lobbying for certain players as well.

Hockey Canada is also about sustained stability. They want a stable approach. They don’t want to deal much with change.

The Program of Excellence also develops coaches. I think during the Covid shut down, a lot of that fell sideways. That usual year over year pipeline broke down. The typical Head coach of the U-17 to Assistant Coach with the U-20 to Head Coach of U-20 seems to have broken its chain. It also broke when Tourigny got his NHL gig and they turned to Cameron as a fill in.

Then with so much turmoil in general with Hockey Canada, you want a Head Coach with an impeccable record of managing kids, especially in their off time during training sessions and the tournament. Too many eyes on the players now.

I think Dave Cameron instills a lot of safety with respect to managing the team more so than coaching it. He has a solid reputation that HC can point to and feel safe. I think from a political position, that matters most to the organization. I don’t think winning medals is the primary focus for Team Canada right now. It likely won’t be for a few more years.

 

[OMG67]

The suggestion that Cameron can't get the most out of his teams is funny given that the big season the 67's had two years ago was completely unexpected. Absolutely no one had Ottawa on their pre-season list of OHL top dogs, and he goes out and wins the regular season title. They ended up losing out to a heavier, more experienced team that underachieved all year, but to me that was the best example of Cameron getting the absolute most out of a lineup that most had tabbed as a middle of the pack team. Quirky dude? Sure, but a brilliant teacher and tactician, and he genuinely cares about the kids. Hockey Canada didn't give him the job this year out of sympathy or the thought that it was "his turn" - they wanted him and sought him out..

For the record, I had pages long arguments in the Season Prediction thread when I had Ottawa in the same group as Peterborough, North Bay, Misisissauga, and Barrie. I think @dirty12 can attest to that!

Yes, I am pumping my chest right now. Deal with it! LOL

 

[ScoutLife4]

The suggestion that Cameron can't get the most out of his teams is funny given that the big season the 67's had two years ago was completely unexpected. Absolutely no one had Ottawa on their pre-season list of OHL top dogs, and he goes out and wins the regular season title. They ended up losing out to a heavier, more experienced team that underachieved all year, but to me that was the best example of Cameron getting the absolute most out of a lineup that most had tabbed as a middle of the pack team. Quirky dude? Sure, but a brilliant teacher and tactician, and he genuinely cares about the kids. Hockey Canada didn't give him the job this year out of sympathy or the thought that it was "his turn" - they wanted him and sought him out..

What big season?? They lost in the 2nd round and were starting to show their true colors in a 1V8 match against a young Oshawa team that shouldn't have even be in the playoffs yet lol. (good thing Kingston sucked)
I haven't seen anyone question if DC cares about his players. - We know he does.
I don't think his systems and coaching style is well suited for playoff hockey though and its showed year after year in my opinion.

Troy Mann last October told me in Peterborough's scout room 2 weeks before he got the Kingston job exactly what a team needed to do to counter Ottawa to beat them.
Then i went on to watch him beat Cameron 5x in a row i think it was.
He was outcoached and beaten by a less skilled team.

I think there is an ability to adapt to change and make adjustments.

 

[Hinterland]

I actually see him more as a center at least at the junior level. He looked way more comfortable at center last year. He can make better use of his main asset, borderline elite speed, there. As OMG said start him as our #2 center for now as we know his floor even though the offensive ceiling is limited. In an ideal scenario Whitehead eventually develops into a #2 as the year proceeds and then Dever is a solid #3.

I'd be more fine to play Dever as 2C but who's 1C? That would be asking quite a lot of Ekberg joining freshly from Europe. I think he's gonna need time to adjust. Which is why I think that Boyd is looking to replace Gardiner.

 

[OMG67]

I'd be more fine to play Dever as 2C but who's 1C? That would be asking quite a lot of Ekberg joining freshly from Europe. I think he's gonna need time to adjust. Which is why I think that Boyd is looking to replace Gardiner.

I think it is more likely they don’t have a “1st line.” They may balance the lines a bit to ensure there are not bad mismatches. Obviously whomever centres Pinelli will be considered the 1st line centre but I don’t think the pressure would be on that player to live up to 1st line expectations.

Even last year, Gardiner was the 1st line centre with Lawrence in the 2nd line centre role. Neither were cast properly but they ended up there by necessity.

In light of how Boyd has handled things in the past, I assume he would make an acquisition if it were absolutely necessary and/or something comes available that works at a relatively fair price.

Boyd specifically mentioned that the picks received for Gardiner fit nicely in the picks cabinet to replace some of the picks used the past couple years. It gives me the sense that he isn’t looking intently with a priority right now.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t think he would leave the team playing with their pants down. If something were really wrong with the roster construction, he will go get someone. But, I think someone like Zach Wigle (overage) from Barrie makes a bit of sense if they can find a spot for one of their current OA’s. Shifting around OA’s may be the easy button solution. The abundance of OA’s will make it tough though.

 

[sirius67fan]

I'd be more fine to play Dever as 2C but who's 1C? That would be asking quite a lot of Ekberg joining freshly from Europe. I think he's gonna need time to adjust. Which is why I think that Boyd is looking to replace Gardiner.

Yeah it is asking a lot but he will be #1 by default. By all accounts he's a high end player so he may be able to handle it. We'll see.

 

[Larionov]

Not because of Dave Cameron if that's what you think.

Why didn't his stacked team get past the 2nd round in 2022?
Lots of ways to spin things.

Stacked team? Here is the roster from that team:

Ottawa 67's 2022-23 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2022-23 Ottawa 67's playing in the OHL.

www.hockeydb.com

Find me the future NHL stars from that group. Here, I'll save you some time - perhaps Mintyukov. That's it. The 2004-05 London Knights? That team was stacked. This group? It hugely overachieved given the makeup of the roster.

Again, absolutely no one had this team as a pre-season favourite of any kind - the most surprised people in the building as that season went on were probably Cameron and Boyd themselves...

 

[beastintheeast]

He is pointing to the politics involved in picking rosters. High NHL draft picks tend to get more attention than elite CHL players that don’t project as pros. In many cases, politics has placed better NHL prospects on that team ahead of better Junior Players that would likely contribute at a higher level in that tournament.

I think the best players are playing for Canada. It is great to say that there are players not chosen tht should be but please give an example of players tht were missed so that it can be discussed.

I find DC interesting, but I think the fact that he has international experience says a lot about that, not so much about his skill at the CHL level.

 

[beastintheeast]

I mostly agree with this. I think the list is missing Richmond.

The issue for some with Cameron is he is a little more old school. So, if he is somewhat old school then where is Butler with respect to rankings? What about Williamson?

The one aspect a lot of people don’t point out is the ability of the GM to work with the Coach. Clearly Boyd and Cameron have a good working relationship and they trust each other so there is something to be said about the duo of GM/Coach.

But are you saying that if the team underperforms and can not make them competitive that we should get rid of both.

I feel that the team is missing size and that is on Boyd.
Player development is on DC
The fact that he had to play injured people instead of healthy players says a lot negatively about his development and trust in his young players.

I am half expecting Boyd to trade Whitehead Amidovski and Yanni so that he can fill holes and compete for the top 4 this year.

 

[beastintheeast]

Have they put out a list for training camp

 

[ScoutLife4]

Stacked team? Here is the roster from that team:

Ottawa 67's 2022-23 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2022-23 Ottawa 67's playing in the OHL.

www.hockeydb.com

Find me the future NHL stars from that group. Here, I'll save you some time - perhaps Mintyukov. That's it. The 2004-05 London Knights? That team was stacked. This group? It hugely overachieved given the makeup of the roster.

Again, absolutely no one had this team as a pre-season favourite of any kind - the most surprised people in the building as that season went on were probably Cameron and Boyd themselves...

That an exceptional roster in the OHL imo if you look at the depth of that roster.
There's 12 players on that roster that are already / about to be Pro hockey players.

What more could you ask for on a JR hockey roster?

Funny that you use basically the best roster ever to play in JR hockey as the comparison.
I'm not really understanding the point you are trying to prove here to be honest.

Is it that much of an accomplishment to you having a good regular season team?
I don't get the sense losing in the 2nd round was something Ottawa was as proud of as you were.

 

[dirty12]

That an exceptional roster in the OHL imo if you look at the depth of that roster.
There's 12 players on that roster that are already / about to be Pro hockey players.

What more could you ask for on a JR hockey roster?

Funny that you use basically the best roster ever to play in JR hockey as the comparison.
I'm not really understanding the point you are trying to prove here to be honest.

Is it that much of an accomplishment to you having a good regular season team?
I don't get the sense losing in the 2nd round was something Ottawa was as proud of as you were.

Cameron squeezed everything out of that roster there was to be had.
That team was something like 19-1 while even the top contenders were figuring out what their teams had.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I think the best players are playing for Canada. It is great to say that there are players not chosen tht should be but please give an example of players tht were missed so that it can be discussed.

I find DC interesting, but I think the fact that he has international experience says a lot about that, not so much about his skill at the CHL level.

The best players are not playing for Canada for a variety of reasons.
If they were Bedard, Fantilli and Wright would have been on last winters team.

Some are not there due to their own choice i'm sure.
But we can't say Canada is icing the best roster possible every winter because they are not.

 

[beastintheeast]

The best players are not playing for Canada for a variety of reasons.
If they were Bedard, Fantilli and Wright would have been on last winters team.

Some are not there due to their own choice i'm sure.
But we can't say Canada is icing the best roster possible every winter because they are not.

Pro teams are not going to let their players play in the WJC it makes no sense dollar wise.

So saying that we are not dressing our best team because they are Pro hockey players makes little sense to me. None of the teams in the WJC are getting pro players to play for them in the tournament.

 

[AAAdad]

HC attempts to roster a team encompassing players from across the country. There are players chosen from the Q that could easily be replaced by guys from the W and the O. That right there is politics by not simply putting the best kids on the ice. That being said, the idea of a "best" roster is highly subjective once you take into consideration that a GM assembles a team with a certain strategy in mind...not simply using the most skilled players.

 

[OMG67]

I think the best players are playing for Canada. It is great to say that there are players not chosen tht should be but please give an example of players tht were missed so that it can be discussed.

I find DC interesting, but I think the fact that he has international experience says a lot about that, not so much about his skill at the CHL level.

There are lots of players that make Team Canada because they are high NHL Draft picks and better NHL Prospects so they get the shot over lower NHL Draft picks that are extremely high performers at the Junior Level but are more marginal NHL Prospects. If you look at the OHL last 2-3 years alone, you can point to:
David Goyette
Dalyn Wakely
Matt Maggio
Logan Morrison

These are just a couple off the top of my head that are/were elite 19 year olds scoring at or near the top of the league that don’t get serious consideration. You can’t tell me that you don’t see that. Look at back in the day. Marc Savard was a league leading scoring a couple years in a row and I don’t even think he got an invite.

 

[BarberPole9]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1828781005441765629

No Mackenzie, Stonehouse or Smyth on the rosters.

Brennan is from Ottawa and played in OS the past two years.