Ottawa 67's 2022-23 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Generalsupdates]

If we acquire Morrison, I still REALLY want Harrison. I love the kids drive. Good motor. He can skate a bit too. If he were to ride shotgun with Morrison, look out. They would make a great 1-2 punch on a line together. It almost wouldn’t matter who lines up beside them. But, I’d love to see Stonehouse with them.

Maybe a Harrison/Parfenyuk deal would work? PArfenyuk is a lefty Import. Big kid. Iwill need to watch a couple Gens games to see if he’d fit in but on the surface, it would be great.

Add:
Morrison
Harrison
Parfenyuk

Off to the races!

 

[Robray12]

I only put those players on my list that wouldn't be a part of a 24/25 team that could possibly contend.

I believe with the right moves we could contend this year and then also next year aswell...with trades along the way.

 

[OMG67]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

 

[beastintheeast]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

OMG

I agree and would like to add a caution. Going all in does not always work.

Look at the Fronts and how many times they have traded the farm and still not won it all. Then you end up in a 3-year rebuilding cycle.

Also if you start trading your number 1 pick then you are pissing off parents and agents. Believe me, trading player x this year and player y next year both being round 1 picks get you a very bad name in the league and parents will refuse to sign. Again look at the Fronts.

The one thing that you have to consider is not only is the player exceptional but

Does he fit into your system
Will he be a fit in the dressing room.
What will the reception of the players be.

Bringing in 1 or 2 players ican be a good thing if the player is not toxic and there have been a few of them in this league that were great players but poison off the ice.

Adding 3 players when you have a good team is not a great idea you are telling players that you do not trust them and end up sending them to junior b teams to play. Again not a good thing.

The system that Ottawa had I think is close to the system they have, They want to get fans in the seats and keep them there.
They want to put an entertaining team on the ice every year.

They are not going to sell everything for this year and ruin next year or 2 years down the road.

That being said I see this team picking up a top center and a winger.

My thoughts are that again Pinelli will be in discussion not as a first choice but as a can we get him cheap.

The goal of this team has to be Morrison. He is a leader and a point producer. He fits everything this team is needing.
However it is like buying a car if the price is too high no matter how much you love the care you are still going to walk away

 

[sirius67fan]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

Very interesting post OMG!

 

[OMG67]

OMG

I agree and would like to add a caution. Going all in does not always work.

Look at the Fronts and how many times they have traded the farm and still not won it all. Then you end up in a 3-year rebuilding cycle.

Also if you start trading your number 1 pick then you are pissing off parents and agents. Believe me, trading player x this year and player y next year both being round 1 picks get you a very bad name in the league and parents will refuse to sign. Again look at the Fronts.

The one thing that you have to consider is not only is the player exceptional but

Does he fit into your system
Will he be a fit in the dressing room.
What will the reception of the players be.

Bringing in 1 or 2 players ican be a good thing if the player is not toxic and there have been a few of them in this league that were great players but poison off the ice.

Adding 3 players when you have a good team is not a great idea you are telling players that you do not trust them and end up sending them to junior b teams to play. Again not a good thing.

The system that Ottawa had I think is close to the system they have, They want to get fans in the seats and keep them there.
They want to put an entertaining team on the ice every year.

They are not going to sell everything for this year and ruin next year or 2 years down the road.

That being said I see this team picking up a top center and a winger.

My thoughts are that again Pinelli will be in discussion not as a first choice but as a can we get him cheap.

The goal of this team has to be Morrison. He is a leader and a point producer. He fits everything this team is needing.
However it is like buying a car if the price is too high no matter how much you love the care you are still going to walk away

No one expects trades to be a guarantee of anything. It increases odds of winning.

Right now I think we can say that between Ottawa, North Bay and Peterborough it is an even split for the Eastern Conference. What trades can those teams make to increase their odds? Each team is looking for an edge. The additional assets give the teams an edge.

Every team knows only one will win.

Ottawa has targets and knows who is available and what the parameters of a trade looks like. Only thing left now is to wait and see.

 

[PuckStop75]

No one expects trades to be a guarantee of anything. It increases odds of winning.

Right now I think we can say that between Ottawa, North Bay and Peterborough it is an even split for the Eastern Conference. What trades can those teams make to increase their odds? Each team is looking for an edge. The additional assets give the teams an edge.

Every team knows only one will win.

Ottawa has targets and knows who is available and what the parameters of a trade looks like. Only thing left now is to wait and see.

When a team does what is needed, the odds are heavily in their favour, Hamilton positioned themselves very well last year and the other contending teams understood it was going to take an upset to defeat them - this was pretty much determined by who won the deadline deals. If MacTavish and Xhekaj go to Windsor, Flint, Kingston, Mississauga or North Bay last year its a very different looking playoff.

With the notion of Wright and Clarke returning after WJC, and a few others like Harrison and Winterton's names starting to be kicked around, there are some very good hockey players available. If Ottawa is too tight fisted with what they are doing and misses out on all the key players it could be another 2019 where the team with the best regular season record doesn't have what it needs to win a Championship.

 

[sirius67fan]

Any news on who's the Bug this weekend?

 

[PuckStop75]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

This is one way to go about it, going to hazard a guess that its not the way Staois or Burnett went about making their deals to win a Championship.

Its never an at any and all cost, but there is usually an element of creativity involved in getting the deals done.

 

[sirius67fan]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

I have only one comment in respect to Gerrior as I would not include him in the trade assets. Not because he's gonna be an impact player offensively as a 19 y.o./OA as I realize he's likely going to top off at 20ish goals, 40-50 ish points. He just fits our style/system too well. Skates like the wind, a real tasmanian devil of a forechecker, can kill penalties and sub in the top six as needed, so you keep him. If somebody ask for him I'm sure with the assets at our disposal an alternate arrangement can be made.

Now OMG to come back to an hypothetical scenario based on your post. We go back to 2018
Owen sound offers Suzuki/Durzi/middle six 19 y.o. winger
A) Mews+picks
B)Marelli +Barlas +picks

So you would do B and not A correct?

 

[PuckStop75]

I have only one comment in respect to Gerrior as I would not include him in the trade assets. Not because he's gonna be an impact player offensively as a 19 y.o./OA as I realize he's likely going to top off at 20ish goals, 40-50 ish points. He just fits our style/system too well. Skates like the wind, a real tasmanian devil of a forechecker, can kill penalties and sub in the top six as needed, so you keep him. If somebody ask for him I'm sure with the assets at our disposal an alternate arrangement can be made.

Now OMG to come back to an hypothetical scenario based on your post. We go back to 2018
Owen sound offers Suzuki/Durzi/middle six 19 y.o. winger
A) Mews+picks
B)Marelli +Barlas +picks

So you would do B and not A correct?

I agree completely on the assessment of Gerrior, he's a good bottom six winger. The team shouldn't have that hold up a deal for a top 6 quality forward or top 4 D. If that is what the other team wants, you thank Gerrior for being a warrior and get the deal done.

I think you mean 2019, but i'll let OMG field that one, i think I know the answer....

 

[OMG67]

I have only one comment in respect to Gerrior as I would not include him in the trade assets. Not because he's gonna be an impact player offensively as a 19 y.o./OA as I realize he's likely going to top off at 20ish goals, 40-50 ish points. He just fits our style/system too well. Skates like the wind, a real tasmanian devil of a forechecker, can kill penalties and sub in the top six as needed, so you keep him. If somebody ask for him I'm sure with the assets at our disposal an alternate arrangement can be made.

Now OMG to come back to an hypothetical scenario based on your post. We go back to 2018
Owen sound offers Suzuki/Durzi/middle six 19 y.o. winger
A) Mews+picks
B)Marelli +Barlas +picks

So you would do B and not A correct?

I would not. And no one was willing to do it which is why OS was sitting there holding their pecker 1 hour before the deadline with Burnett going “come to papa!”

If a team like Kingston or Saginaw wants an 18 year old forward instead of a 17 year old forward because they want to make their run next year then you make Herrior available. He can be replaced on the trade market with a relatively cheap 19 year old.

And remember, if we were to use that logic regarding the Guelph OS trade, we wouldn’t have Tolnai today and probably aren’t having this conversation.

 

[44 95 plus tax]

Any news on who's the Bug this weekend?

Boe Piroski

 

[PuckStop75]

I would not. And no one was willing to do it which is why OS was sitting there holding their pecker 1 hour before the deadline with Burnett going “come to papa!”

If a team like Kingston or Saginaw wants an 18 year old forward instead of a 17 year old forward because they want to make their run next year then you make Herrior available. He can be replaced on the trade market with a relatively cheap 19 year old.

And remember, if we were to use that logic regarding the Guelph OS trade, we wouldn’t have Tolnai today and probably aren’t having this conversation.

Patience and tolerance to the situation with OS may have been advisable. If all they had to give up in that deal was Tolnai and picks they likely win a Championship and the conversation is very different as we are talking about replicating what Hamilton did and winning a 2nd title in 4 years.

Hind site in these matters is always pretty good, looking at what all the pieces have become makes it seem much clearer.

Boe Piroski

I take it he is on loan from Flint?

 

[NordiquesForeva]

I purposely wanted to wait to see all the replies regarding “all in” before I responded.

I have a philosophy regarding how a team should operate at all times with zero deviation.
1> 1st round picks need to be assessed through Christmas of their first year. The assessment needs to be based on when the franchise feels the player is going to become impactful. If the franchise feels the player will be impactful as a 17 year old, you don’t trade that player under any circumstances. Arguably you get three years of “impact” from that type of player. IF a player is deemed impactful starting at 18 then you need to assess whether the player youare getting is worth the services of an impact player for two years. If the player is deemed only impactful for likely one season at 19 and maybe an OA year then there is ZERO reason not to include the player in a trade when you feel it is necessary. So, if we look at the players currently on the roster drafted int he 1st round of the OHL Draft, which ones fit in which category...
Tolnai - I think we were all somewhat disappointed with Tolnai as a rookie. Generally speaking, most of us thought it was likley to take him three development years to become impactful so he would be an easy trade piece.
Matier - As a D-Man with a physical edge, he would be the guy you’d expect to be impactful as an 18 year old BUT, his impact would have a higher ceiling. I think we all knew Matier was going to be a force with his size and skating. Offence would likely come with that as it does in Junior. So he’d be available but only for an exceptional player
Barlas - He was a bust as a rookie. He may turn out to be ok at some point. I think we all agree that if it were last year and we were in the position we are now in, no one would question trading him. I doubt anyone would question it now either. No disrespect meant to Barlas. He has improved but it is unlikely he is an impact player until at least his 4th year.
Mews - Mews will be an impact player next season as a 17 year old. He is off the table no matter what. Period.
Marrelli - I see the same things in Marrelli as Matier. I don’t think he will end up at 6’4” but he’s going to be thick and have a similar impact. So, like MAtier, if you trade him now, it needs to be a significantly impactful player.
***This is how I assess the use of 16 y/o 1st rounders. Based on this, I would not use a 1st rounder on any player in the OHL currently. I don’t think the players available are near impactful enough to toss away that type of projected talent.
2> A GM needs to be consistent. The GM cannot give in drooling all over players. If he does he sets a precedent and that will follow the GM forever and will hurt the team year after year in perpetuity. Boyd needs to approach the market advertising the players and picks he is willing to part with to allow opposing teams scouts to do their homework. If the players are deemed to have value, the opposing teams will show interest. IF they don’t have value, the oppowing teams will not have interest and communications stop. GM’s CANNOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES get caught up in a bidding war. You cannot have your offer played off on another team. Any time your offer is presented to another team to beat, you rescind your offer immediately. GM’s will discuss the parameters of a deal. They will talk names etc but no “OFFER” is provided. It is a feeling out process. Either you are on the same page or you aren’t. IF you are on the same page then you can get deeper but at that point it is understood that you two are working together for a deal and no other team is involved. The “biding war” is ONLY during the feeling out stage. Once the selling team approaches the most likely buyer candidate, talks with other teams break off. THAT is how to negotiate for these types of deals otherwise youa re negotiating agaisnt yourself. You are simply upping the offers from other teams and doing your team a disservice. GM’s that negotiate by presenting an offer as a feeler get burnt all the time or offer too much. I remember one year Kilrea was working on a deal for Steve Downey in Windsor. Windsor took his offer and used it to get a better deal and Kilrea immediately reminded the offer and cut off discussions entirely leaving Windsor in the lurch. That needs to be done 100% of the time If it happens.
3> As eluded to above, the 67’s in this example need to make it known which players they are willing to part with and which players are off the table no matter what. It takes a lot of time and energy to complete proper due diligence. Saying they are not willing to move Frankie MArrelli and then realizing if they don’t they won’t get the player is a too bad, so sad situation. Either he is or isn’t available. Teams need to properly assess and consider. It can be the last day of the deadline and the 67’s are still talking and the opposing team is still asking for Marrelli. The opposing team needs to know the parameters potentially available form Ottawa. If the team can get a far better offer from another team for whatever reason then they will do it. The 67’s need to live with their decisions on strategy. They cannot shift their strategy. They will be taken advantage of.

My opinion on what Ottawa should do:
1> Make a list of players available. I would have Quick, Dever, Ewles, Barlas, Laforme, Gerroir, Sirman and Smyth available.
2> I would make a list of players the team is targeting. Clearly they have an OA spot open and a lack of depth at Centre so it makes sense to acquire a Centre, whether it be an OA or not. Preferably, if I am acquiring two forwards, I acquire two centres and use one on the wing.
3> I decide how many picks in each round I need to retain in hand no matter what. Maybe I say between 2023 and 2026, I want two picks in each round leaving me void of half of my picks. If that’s the case, the 67s then have 5 2nds and 8 3rds available plus some 4ths and 5ths.
4> I survey the market to see what we’d likely be able to work out and which ones are a waste of time.

Right now, if the rumours are true that Oshawa is hell bent on an ‘06 for Harrison, then so be it. Let them know what you’d be willing to do in broad strokes and tell them to come back if they shift their position. If Saginaw wants an ‘06 for Mintyukov then so be it. Do the same as you would with Oshawa. But, figure out what you are likely able to do and wait as long as possible before you pull the trigger if you have other names ahead of those players. If you survey the league and it doesn’t look like anyone would be willing to trade an ‘06 for Harrison and he’s the #1 guy on your list, figure out what your internal deadline is and present that deadline to Oshawa so you don’t run out of time on others etc.

This is typically how these sorts of processes work. It is typically a long process of preparation followed by a waiting game and some would say a game of chicken. But you need to be disciplined.

You can never “go all in.” That suggests you will make whatever deals necessary and the future matters for nothing. I think it is irresponsible. The 67’s have been disciplined and have accumulated expendable assets specifically so they DON’T HAVE TO go all in. We may disagree with the 67’s management assessment of what they team needs but we shouldn’t disagree with their disciplined approach. A consistent approach is necessary even if it means they miss out on a player they really wanted.

Honestly, this is one of the best and most insightful posts I've ever read on HF.

 

[NoQuit67s]

Honestly, this is one of the best and most insightful posts I've ever read on HF.

Agree!

 

[Kingpin794]

I would not. And no one was willing to do it which is why OS was sitting there holding their pecker 1 hour before the deadline with Burnett going “come to papa!”

If a team like Kingston or Saginaw wants an 18 year old forward instead of a 17 year old forward because they want to make their run next year then you make Herrior available. He can be replaced on the trade market with a relatively cheap 19 year old.

And remember, if we were to use that logic regarding the Guelph OS trade, we wouldn’t have Tolnai today and probably aren’t having this conversation.

We need a defenseman way more than a F. Will have to make up for Smith, Hislop, and Mintyukov leaving.

 

[OMG67]

We need a defenseman way more than a F. Will have to make up for Smith, Hislop, and Mintyukov leaving.

Hence the reason why I added Sirman and Smyth on the Defence side included in the players we should make available on another post. They are the 18 year old D-Men that could be used in a Mintyukov trade.

 

[Kingpin794]

Hence the reason why I added Sirman and Smyth on the Defence side. They are the 18 year old D-Men that could be used in a Mintyukov trade.

Sorry. Missed that. Those are both good options. Marrelli with a massive reduction in picks would be nice too.

 

[OMG67]

Sorry. Missed that. Those are both good options. Marrelli with a massive reduction in picks would be nice too.

Yeah, I doubt Ottawa moves Marrelli for an Import. I think Sirman, another younger forward like Dever and some picks (whatever is needed to bridge the gap) is the more ideal trade for Ottawa. Ottawa has Matier so they aren’t in a grievous need for Mintyukov. He falls into the nice to have category for the 67s.

There are other teams with a #1 D-Man gap they need to fill that are probably more willing.

 

[mianjo]

Boe Piroski backup has he signed for the 67`s or is he on loan from Flint

 

[OMG67]

Just speculation on my part but they have Barlas on the wing with Rohrer and Pinelli. They have Mews back on defence. So, it makes me think that they are showcasing Barlas with a higher line While on this Western trip.

 

[mianjo]

67`s bad down 3-0 in 1st, Boucher loses the puck on a PP and they score a shortie

 

[mianjo]

3-1


1ST 19:24 #24 Vinzenz Rohrer (10) scores. Assists: #20 Luca Pinelli

 

[AGranderson]

Yeah, I doubt Ottawa moves Marrelli for an Import. I think Sirman, another younger forward like Dever and some picks (whatever is needed to bridge the gap) is the more ideal trade for Ottawa. Ottawa has Matier so they aren’t in a grievous need for Mintyukov. He falls into the nice to have category for the 67s.

There are other teams with a #1 D-Man gap they need to fill that are probably more willing.

I highly doubt Dever gets traded being out long term from the hit VS NB he will not be back anytime soon