- Sep 9, 2009
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Don’t know if I would have recorded and posted this but…
Confirmed with Link: [OTT/BUT] Josh Norris & JBD traded for Dylan Cozens, Dennis Gilbert & 2026 2nd
- Thread starter LeProspector
- Start date
BigRig4
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2014
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“Is there anything buffalo needs to know about Norris contract” lmao. Dorion’s legacy.
SpezDispenser
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2007
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Do you have enough payroll for this trade? Yes. Good, I didn't need to ask, but I wanted to waste a bit of time.
dumbdick
Galactic Defender
- May 31, 2008
- 11,874
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Good post. Appreciate the intel.Sabres fan coming in peace, as we apparently have to say.. .Warning for a (very) long post but I want to be real with you all on what you're getting here...
I'm just going to be blunt...Cozens is the absolute last guy that will "prop up" his linemates. I know Norris isn't that guy either, but want this to be known. Every single player that Cozens played more than a few random shifts with got worse with him. The team was basically under water every time he stepped on the ice.
He's an actively terrible hockey player at this very moment but that's not to say he can't be fixed. He'll have the occasional good game but by and large it's been about 150-175 games of uninspiring listless play. The biggest warts I notice in his game are as follows:
-Terrible hockey IQ - I'd probably put him in the bottom 1/10 of league in this regard. He doesn't see the ice well, doesn't position himself well both offensively and defensively and gets himself running around. Not sure how much this can be fixed but it can certainly be masked. We all thought he'd thrive under Lindy like many other centers have over the years.
-Lacks clutch ability - He seemed to shrink in big games or against tougher opponents. The Sabres, believe it or not, came very close to making the playoffs two seasons ago. He played well early in the year when the team had no expectations whatsoever. But as the team got closer to the reality of making the playoffs and every game mattered, he literally disappeared down the stretch. He was being outplayed badly by Casey Mittelstadt. There's a reason he doesn't have many GWG over his career. He's more the type of guy that will score when things are going well for the team. If Sabres management had peeled back the onion, they'd have seen that Cozens was putting up points in a lot of "empty calorie" ways but wasn't driving the bus, so to speak.
-Not a good playmaker - He's not a good passer and doesn't have the vision to see plays develop. Goes along with hockey IQ, but a point worth making.
-Lacks accuracy on his shot. He's largely been a sub-10% shooter his entire career outside of one outlier season where his shooting % skyrocketed. Like many, he's streaky and can get hot for a few games. But largely, he's the guy frustratingly shooting right into the goalies crest. This goes back to his early days, you could just see that he's not very accurate. He has what appears to be a decent release and will snipe from distance at times. He could easily pop in 25-30 again with a lot going his way. He's really struggled to score goals in all of his seasons but one, which a majority came in the first half with a crazy %.
Where I think he could find his way...
PK'ing - He's showed some promise as a PK'er, especially last season. Lindy Ruff hasn't used him there as he prefers McLeod and others. But under Granato last season, Cozens showed some decent ability to score SHG's. He's again, not very clutch on defensive zone draws however.
As a matchup player - Occasionally our coaches would use him to match up against a McDavid or Matthews in a given game. This was never consistent, but when they did it he seemed to fare decently when give this task. He's like a dog being told to do something simple and seems he's able to comprehend it. It's when he's asked to do too much his head start spinning and it's miserable to watch. Something tells me if he'd been developed as a 3rd liner type, he'd be a better NHL'er. Sadly at $7M, that luxury went out the window.
As a Top 6 Winger - I truly don't think Dylan is a top 6-capable center in this league. But do think his game could translate to the wing. He could be a lot like Alex Tuch, who is a fantastic player for us. Straight line speed, ability to carry to puck away from the traffic of the center and using his size more. IMO, this is what the Sens should do with him. I've been banging this drum for years but once we paid him the big contract and traded Mittelstadt, we painted ourselves into a corner. It was immediately apparent after trading Mitts that we were in a world of hurt with him as the 2C and no one else behind him.
Thanks for reading my essay. Overall, I'm very passionate about Cozens, as I've long despised his game but from the bottom of my heart wanted him to be good. He was on paper, everything NHL teams want and it just hardly translated into anything positive. Needless to say, I'm happy to see him moved at this juncture, it was time. Norris is not the return I was hoping for but am happy to have someone who is a true NHL Center. I'd have preferred Cozens be moved in a larger package for EP40 for instance, as the Sabres are dying for a playmaker and have a bunch of shoot-first centers. I know that's not what we're getting in Norris, but if he can be competent defensively, come through in the clutch and help our dismal PP then it'll likely make the Sabres a bit better than they've been. I hate to say it, but getting Cozens away from this team will likely be addition by subtraction. That doesn't mean that he'll be bad for the Sens, I want that to be clear. I truly can see this working for both teams. Best of luck!
I'll try to reciprocate a bit here.
Norris typically ranges from average to good, with a rare dominant game. Never really hurts you or makes mistakes but can be invisible for decent stretches. He's never really fully earned his salary but you're catching him on a good upswing as he seems healthy and in a groove lately. I suspect he'd elevate in the playoffs in a really good way, and when he's on his game he's a very effective player with or without the puck.
He's a defensive center with a deadly accurate shot. Everything else he's kind of average or a bit above average at. There's a bit of passing vision on display there at times, but his hands are just okay. When his forechecking, motor and puck retrieval are strong he's at his best. When he's being used as a one-timing sniper he's just meh.
His description seems like the kind of guy that could be slotted down as an elite 3C, but he's not really suited for that role somehow and I don't recall us ever using him like that. He needs to play with top 6 talents to elevate his game.
If you don't play him with a high-vision playmaker, you'll be wasting him. He needs good chemistry to be effective and he owes a ton of his success to Batherson in my opinion. He's not super easy to slot and doesn't gel with everyone.
This is a review of "healthyish josh", which is what he's played like for decent parts of this season.
If I did this post a year or two ago I would have described a guy with negative value that the sens would likely be unable to move, both because of his injury and his relatively weak play.
Despite us being rivals, I hope for him that you get the good healthy josh. Great guy and a great teammate. If he keeps it all together he's the kind of guy you win with.
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2013
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Interesting ... no questions on trade protection..
I guess that would be covered in the blanket question on anything else to know.
Masked
(Super/star)
But Zetterlund is hopefully MUCH better than Gregor and he couldn't have been acquired without the Norris trade.
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2013
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Gilbert is bigger and tougher ,, all I know... but If we can get Hamonic watching vs playing .., I'm in
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
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Gilbert is a LHD, he'll fill in for Kleven, not really related to JBD since the coach is playing both Matinpalo and Hamonic ahead of him
Hopefully Gilbert is better than Hamonic on his off side, low bar so I'm reasonably confident.
Cozens vs Norris, I think in a vacuum we area touch worse off unless Cozens finds his game, but Cozens might be a bit better fit, similar to how Chychrun is a better player than Jensen but Jensen is a better fit. This one I'm less optimistic about, but we'll see.
From everything I've gleaned from Buffalo fans, we should not be playing Cozens at centre. Let him play a simple game on the wing.
Tragedy
Registered User
and from everything we gleaned from caps fans, Jensen was a geriatric who could barely skate.
Maybe we don't hold playing in the soul crushing blackhole of Buffalo against him and give him a fair shake
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
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A lot boils down to whether Norris can remain healthy. There’s a dichotomy of opinions on here. Many feel he’ll be re-injured sooner or later (probably sooner). Others look at the Taraneko situation (three shoulder surgeries, same surgeon, 4 years without re-injury). Time will tell. Got to admit, I’m not sure what to think, and somewhat nervous.
Given there were 2 additions made, I think overall it's a positive and that allays my concerns to a fair extent. Time will tell.
Given there were 2 additions made, I think overall it's a positive and that allays my concerns to a fair extent. Time will tell.
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Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
I will miss Norris but the 850 000$ difference, the 2 years younger and the durability aspect makes sense for Ottawa. Plus the fact that e got a 2nd round pick is a nice bonus.
If Norris could stop being injury-prone and return to his 2021-22 form, he is an excellent 2-way Center but that's a big IF. Cozens has struggled a bit lately but he has shown huge upside in his 21 y/o season too.
That we like it or not, Cozens is just a lot less RISKY than Norris
If Norris could stop being injury-prone and return to his 2021-22 form, he is an excellent 2-way Center but that's a big IF. Cozens has struggled a bit lately but he has shown huge upside in his 21 y/o season too.
That we like it or not, Cozens is just a lot less RISKY than Norris
kilroy
Registered User
- Aug 13, 2007
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I'm willing to bet you big money Ottawa management asked to have it recorded. They're likely trying to show, very clearly, they can be trusted.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
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Ottawa got bigger, tougher, younger & added a few more pts to their roster, they also acquired another 2nd & saved a little money. Not bad.
Should be interesting how Green places them in this lineup. I expect Cozens to replace Norris on that second line C spot & Zetterlund to eventually either replace Perron on the second line or Amadio on the 3rd. I expect Amadio could be the odd man out of the top nine. Gilbert will likely slide into Kleven spot until he returns & Hamonic & Matinpalo share the 3rd RD spot.
Should be interesting how Green places them in this lineup. I expect Cozens to replace Norris on that second line C spot & Zetterlund to eventually either replace Perron on the second line or Amadio on the 3rd. I expect Amadio could be the odd man out of the top nine. Gilbert will likely slide into Kleven spot until he returns & Hamonic & Matinpalo share the 3rd RD spot.
Big Muddy
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2019
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Hopefully Cozens will help with 5 v 5 scoring which is far more important & the much larger need. Defensive play isn’t Cozen’s forte. Green will coach him on that, but the transformation won’t occur overnight.
A day later, this is how I'm feeling as well. Although I'm still not quite as optimistic. Lots of pressure on Cozens to come in hot.
Dionysus
Registered User
I’m excited to see how he does. Staois wanted to change the make up of the roster and spread out the skill and scoring, and he was able to do so, and add a bunch more offence and physicality in the process with Zetts.
On paper it looks like a big win for our roster, hopefully Green gets the production and play on the ice.
I like that Cozens and Bath already have chemistry on the ice, I like how Zetts fills a potential scoring winger for Stu, and I like how Gilbert adds that tough physical defender on the bottom pairing when needed, and heck, maybe he can play.
Really solid day for the Sens, with Cozens being the centrepiece.
On paper it looks like a big win for our roster, hopefully Green gets the production and play on the ice.
I like that Cozens and Bath already have chemistry on the ice, I like how Zetts fills a potential scoring winger for Stu, and I like how Gilbert adds that tough physical defender on the bottom pairing when needed, and heck, maybe he can play.
Really solid day for the Sens, with Cozens being the centrepiece.
Sound_n_Fury
Registered User
- Apr 3, 2005
- 869
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Not if it's true.
Dylan is a good hockey player--from the neck down. Anytime he needs to make a decision, kitty bar the door. His situational awareness is among the worst I've seen over the last two years. And has left a huge void at the C2 position, weighing heavily on the Sabres lack of success.
To some degree, this may be due to Don Granato's run-n-gun, 'who-needs-defense' mandate before he got fired. It really hurt the development of Buffalo's young prospects who continue to struggle with the defensive responsibilities of the game. Add that to Cozens lack of hockey IQ and you've got a problem.
Maybe playing in Canada with a clean slate will allow him to rebuild his game. But those are long odds, IMO, as that hockey IQ issue is pretty fundamental.
Chabottawa72
Registered User
Cozens played a really good game today..great hockey IQ and a career high in hits!
He played his first game today and I thought he looked awesome. Involved in everything, big part of the 3rd period come back.
Looked the same as when he represents Canada. Big, physical, fast.
Well deserved 2nd star.
I'm happy he had a good game for you guys. He will certainly do that from time to time. It became rare over the last two seasons where he'd put together a good game, often a period at a time.
If the Sens can find a way to minimize his shortcomings, he'll be totally fine and useful even. He's going to ride the adrenaline high right now and just play using instincts. It's when he settles in that I'd start to worry. I will be interested to see how he looks after 20 games or so.
I wouldn't be fooled about the IQ yet. It's a real thing, we're not just making it up. His processing speed is about as slow as they come but the right type of coaching/system can probably help.
May I ask who he played with today?
