ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
Matt Carkner, Andy Sutton, Mark Boro.
Some of our most prolific fighters were D. And extremely good ones too that shifting impact of the game.
Confirmed with Link: [OTT/BUT] Josh Norris & JBD traded for Dylan Cozens, Dennis Gilbert & 2026 2nd
- Thread starter LeProspector
- Start date
Matt Carkner, Andy Sutton, Mark Boro.
Some of our most prolific fighters were D. And extremely good ones too that shifting impact of the game.
aragorn
Do The Right Thing
- Aug 8, 2004
- 29,733
- 10,520
Neil, Vial, Chara, McGratton, Carkner, Emery, Peluso, Bonvie, Sutton, Boro, Roy, Ray ... to mention a few ...
kilroy
Registered User
- Aug 13, 2007
- 281
- 19
Sounds like a similar situation that Turris found himself in when he was languishing in Arizona. Worked out well for us that time, maybe we can do it again...
Uberpecker
Registered User
- Mar 3, 2011
- 3,812
- 2,014
Sabres fan coming in peace. Allow me to right a couple of misconceptions on Cozens:
He is not really tough or has sandpaper, at least not to our knowledge. He got his ass handed to him in every recent fight, one of which may have changed him as a player. Hasn't been a net-front presence, either.
He is not a center. Doesn't have the IQ for it and never lived up to that one season.
So what is he then? The answer is, we don't know, honestly, which is likely why he got traded. A former high draft pick with good physical tools and undeniable work ethic and probably some upside left. From that point onwards it's up to you guys.
He is not really tough or has sandpaper, at least not to our knowledge. He got his ass handed to him in every recent fight, one of which may have changed him as a player. Hasn't been a net-front presence, either.
He is not a center. Doesn't have the IQ for it and never lived up to that one season.
So what is he then? The answer is, we don't know, honestly, which is likely why he got traded. A former high draft pick with good physical tools and undeniable work ethic and probably some upside left. From that point onwards it's up to you guys.
Erik Alfredsson
Beast Mode Cowboy!
- Jan 14, 2012
- 13,889
- 6,364
I just had a conversation about this trade which made me see it from a different point of view.
This trade might not just be about swapping Norris for Cozens. It's also a message to the team. You look at what Florida did with moving out Huberdeau. Look at what Winnipeg did with moving out their core guys. It says that we're about winning, we're not about being a fraternity. And that's what the committment here is towards.
So maybe a trade like this is what the team needs. Staios would absolutely know how an NHL locker room might react to a trade like this, maybe he wants to challenge them.
This trade might not just be about swapping Norris for Cozens. It's also a message to the team. You look at what Florida did with moving out Huberdeau. Look at what Winnipeg did with moving out their core guys. It says that we're about winning, we're not about being a fraternity. And that's what the committment here is towards.
So maybe a trade like this is what the team needs. Staios would absolutely know how an NHL locker room might react to a trade like this, maybe he wants to challenge them.
WORLDSTARHIPHOP
Sens <<<<<<<<<< NHL
- May 31, 2008
- 8,381
- 4,756
I'm never going to judge a player on a dysfunctional team.
Just look at us last year. Chabot looked like he was washed and could barely remember how to play hockey.
Just look at us last year. Chabot looked like he was washed and could barely remember how to play hockey.
Emerica
Registered User
- May 29, 2010
- 11,659
- 7,346
He’s looked good every time he’s not playing on the Sabres so that is something.
And i’m sure he’ll have a chip on his shoulder to prove that he’s not the player he’s been so far this season. Honestly playing in Buffalo has to be soul sucking. Just like it is for the Jets in the NFL. Don’t think its a coincidence young impact players that end up leaving Buffalo usually turn a corner and become player they were expected to become.
He’s played with Bath at the World Championships and they meshed well, it’d stick them on a line together with Brady to start.
And i’m sure he’ll have a chip on his shoulder to prove that he’s not the player he’s been so far this season. Honestly playing in Buffalo has to be soul sucking. Just like it is for the Jets in the NFL. Don’t think its a coincidence young impact players that end up leaving Buffalo usually turn a corner and become player they were expected to become.
He’s played with Bath at the World Championships and they meshed well, it’d stick them on a line together with Brady to start.
Sabres fan coming in peace, as we apparently have to say
.. .Warning for a (very) long post but I want to be real with you all on what you're getting here...I'm just going to be blunt...Cozens is the absolute last guy that will "prop up" his linemates. I know Norris isn't that guy either, but want this to be known. Every single player that Cozens played more than a few random shifts with got worse with him. The team was basically under water every time he stepped on the ice.
He's an actively terrible hockey player at this very moment but that's not to say he can't be fixed. He'll have the occasional good game but by and large it's been about 150-175 games of uninspiring listless play. The biggest warts I notice in his game are as follows:
-Terrible hockey IQ - I'd probably put him in the bottom 1/10 of league in this regard. He doesn't see the ice well, doesn't position himself well both offensively and defensively and gets himself running around. Not sure how much this can be fixed but it can certainly be masked. We all thought he'd thrive under Lindy like many other centers have over the years.
-Lacks clutch ability - He seemed to shrink in big games or against tougher opponents. The Sabres, believe it or not, came very close to making the playoffs two seasons ago. He played well early in the year when the team had no expectations whatsoever. But as the team got closer to the reality of making the playoffs and every game mattered, he literally disappeared down the stretch. He was being outplayed badly by Casey Mittelstadt. There's a reason he doesn't have many GWG over his career. He's more the type of guy that will score when things are going well for the team. If Sabres management had peeled back the onion, they'd have seen that Cozens was putting up points in a lot of "empty calorie" ways but wasn't driving the bus, so to speak.
-Not a good playmaker - He's not a good passer and doesn't have the vision to see plays develop. Goes along with hockey IQ, but a point worth making.
-Lacks accuracy on his shot. He's largely been a sub-10% shooter his entire career outside of one outlier season where his shooting % skyrocketed. Like many, he's streaky and can get hot for a few games. But largely, he's the guy frustratingly shooting right into the goalies crest. This goes back to his early days, you could just see that he's not very accurate. He has what appears to be a decent release and will snipe from distance at times. He could easily pop in 25-30 again with a lot going his way. He's really struggled to score goals in all of his seasons but one, which a majority came in the first half with a crazy %.
Where I think he could find his way...
PK'ing - He's showed some promise as a PK'er, especially last season. Lindy Ruff hasn't used him there as he prefers McLeod and others. But under Granato last season, Cozens showed some decent ability to score SHG's. He's again, not very clutch on defensive zone draws however.
As a matchup player - Occasionally our coaches would use him to match up against a McDavid or Matthews in a given game. This was never consistent, but when they did it he seemed to fare decently when give this task. He's like a dog being told to do something simple and seems he's able to comprehend it. It's when he's asked to do too much his head start spinning and it's miserable to watch. Something tells me if he'd been developed as a 3rd liner type, he'd be a better NHL'er. Sadly at $7M, that luxury went out the window.
As a Top 6 Winger - I truly don't think Dylan is a top 6-capable center in this league. But do think his game could translate to the wing. He could be a lot like Alex Tuch, who is a fantastic player for us. Straight line speed, ability to carry to puck away from the traffic of the center and using his size more. IMO, this is what the Sens should do with him. I've been banging this drum for years but once we paid him the big contract and traded Mittelstadt, we painted ourselves into a corner. It was immediately apparent after trading Mitts that we were in a world of hurt with him as the 2C and no one else behind him.
Thanks for reading my essay. Overall, I'm very passionate about Cozens, as I've long despised his game but from the bottom of my heart wanted him to be good. He was on paper, everything NHL teams want and it just hardly translated into anything positive. Needless to say, I'm happy to see him moved at this juncture, it was time. Norris is not the return I was hoping for but am happy to have someone who is a true NHL Center. I'd have preferred Cozens be moved in a larger package for EP40 for instance, as the Sabres are dying for a playmaker and have a bunch of shoot-first centers. I know that's not what we're getting in Norris, but if he can be competent defensively, come through in the clutch and help our dismal PP then it'll likely make the Sabres a bit better than they've been. I hate to say it, but getting Cozens away from this team will likely be addition by subtraction. That doesn't mean that he'll be bad for the Sens, I want that to be clear. I truly can see this working for both teams. Best of luck!
Sun God Nika
Palestine 🇵🇸
There is a possibility he can be playing behind Stutzle and Pinto on the depth charts here as pretty much a third C. Can you see him excelling in that kind of role?Sabres fan coming in peace, as we apparently have to say
I'm just going to be blunt...Cozens is the absolute last guy that will "prop up" his linemates. I know Norris isn't that guy either, but want this to be known. Every single player that Cozens played more than a few random shifts with got worse with him. The team was basically under water every time he stepped on the ice.
He's an actively terrible hockey player at this very moment but that's not to say he can't be fixed. He'll have the occasional good game but by and large it's been about 150-175 games of uninspiring listless play. The biggest warts I notice in his game are as follows:
-Terrible hockey IQ - I'd probably put him in the bottom 1/10 of league in this regard. He doesn't see the ice well, doesn't position himself well both offensively and defensively and gets himself running around. Not sure how much this can be fixed but it can certainly be masked. We all thought he'd thrive under Lindy like many other centers have over the years.
-Lacks clutch ability - He seemed to shrink in big games or against tougher opponents. The Sabres, believe it or not, came very close to making the playoffs two seasons ago. He played well early in the year when the team had no expectations whatsoever. But as the team got closer to the reality of making the playoffs and every game mattered, he literally disappeared down the stretch. He was being outplayed badly by Casey Mittelstadt. There's a reason he doesn't have many GWG over his career. He's more the type of guy that will score when things are going well for the team. If Sabres management had peeled back the onion, they'd have seen that Cozens was putting up points in a lot of "empty calorie" ways but wasn't driving the bus, so to speak.
-Not a good playmaker - He's not a good passer and doesn't have the vision to see plays develop. Goes along with hockey IQ, but a point worth making.
-Lacks accuracy on his shot. He's largely been a sub-10% shooter his entire career outside of one outlier season where his shooting % skyrocketed. Like many, he's streaky and can get hot for a few games. But largely, he's the guy frustratingly shooting right into the goalies crest. This goes back to his early days, you could just see that he's not very accurate. He has what appears to be a decent release and will snipe from distance at times. He could easily pop in 25-30 again with a lot going his way. He's really struggled to score goals in all of his seasons but one, which a majority came in the first half with a crazy %.
Where I think he could find his way...
PK'ing - He's showed some promise as a PK'er, especially last season. Lindy Ruff hasn't used him there as he prefers McLeod and others. But under Granato last season, Cozens showed some decent ability to score SHG's. He's again, not very clutch on defensive zone draws however.
As a matchup player - Occasionally our coaches would use him to match up against a McDavid or Matthews in a given game. This was never consistent, but when they did it he seemed to fare decently when give this task. He's like a dog being told to do something simple and seems he's able to comprehend it. It's when he's asked to do too much his head start spinning and it's miserable to watch. Something tells me if he'd been developed as a 3rd liner type, he'd be a better NHL'er. Sadly at $7M, that luxury went out the window.
As a Top 6 Winger - I truly don't think Dylan is a top 6-capable center in this league. But do think his game could translate to the wing. He could be a lot like Alex Tuch, who is a fantastic player for us. Straight line speed, ability to carry to puck away from the traffic of the center and using his size more. IMO, this is what the Sens should do with him. I've been banging this drum for years but once we paid him the big contract and traded Mittelstadt, we painted ourselves into a corner. It was immediately apparent after trading Mitts that we were in a world of hurt with him as the 2C and no one else behind him.
Thanks for reading my essay. Overall, I'm very passionate about Cozens, as I've long despised his game but from the bottom of my heart wanted him to be good. He was on paper, everything NHL teams want and it just hardly translated into anything positive. Needless to say, I'm happy to see him moved at this juncture, it was time. Norris is not the return I was hoping for but am happy to have someone who is a true NHL Center. I'd have preferred Cozens be moved in a larger package for EP40 for instance, as the Sabres are dying for a playmaker and have a bunch of shoot-first centers. I know that's not what we're getting in Norris, but if he can be competent defensively, come through in the clutch and help our dismal PP then it'll likely make the Sabres a bit better than they've been. I hate to say it, but getting Cozens away from this team will likely be addition by subtraction. That doesn't mean that he'll be bad for the Sens, I want that to be clear. I truly can see this working for both teams. Best of luck!
Every team's 3C role is a bit different. If he's on a third line with super easy offensive deployment, I could see that working. But he'll still need play driving wingers to help him. He truly is one the dumbest players I've seen, constantly skates himself into trouble. Basically he looks very easy to shutdown, but might have a better time against another team's third pairing.
If he needed to be the defensive presence for the team, then it's a NO. But with some really good defensive players, he could play a matchup game and that be his only focus. I think he struggles trying to play good defense while also providing offense, and vice versa.
His game is built on rush offense. Trying to play within a defensive system has been his undoing the last two years. He's just simply unable to grasp what he's supposed to be doing, and you can see the wheels spinning live in action.
I hope what I'm saying makes sense. I think he needs a very specific role and can then thrive. It might just be a matter of Buffalo not having the right complimentary pieces that worked with Cozens. But when everyone plays better without you, and the eye test corroborates that, it's hard to see his ceiling changing from what he is right now.
Sun God Nika
Palestine 🇵🇸
Cozens: I've got a lot more to prove, want to show the player I can be
Steve and CJ are joined by one of the newest Ottawa Senators Dylan Cozens to chat about the big deal today, the difficulty of leaving Buffalo, the excitement of joining the Sens and what lays ahead for him and the team.
www.tsn.ca
Yeah, I can see the similarities with the Turris deal: guy who's not playing the same since a significant injury, a guy known for his shot but also his 2-way play, guy who has found at different times chemistry with his linemates, popular guy among fans and probably in the locker room. Then he gets traded and presumably the more skilled guy (Duchene) comes in and the team (inexplicably?) enters a downward spiral. There's obviously all sorts of other factors to what happened to the Sens, but it is easy to look at this trade as the TSN turning point.
This is going to be the major risk for Staios: we NEED to make the playoffs now, or he will constantly be second-guessed on this trade. I mean, I was all for leaving well enough alone with this team, and maybe consider moving a piece of the core in the off-season. Obviously the second trade involving Zetterlund changes things quite a bit, and when I'm looking at both trades as one big package I am definitely happy with what unfolded. Let's see what happens; an exciting and anxiety-inducing end of season awaits!
Stutzlaaaa
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2021
- 903
- 791
Meh don't like the trade I think it was not needed as of now . Bad timing to try to challenge the team when they are in good position to makr playoff. Going from Norris to Cozens is a down grade for me.Even adding zetterlund I don't see something that will improve this team now or the futur.
Time will tell but for me Cozens is more similar to Koteniami than Turris. All Buffalo fans knows that Cozens has really low IQ can't fix that.Norris strenght was actually his good IQ.I don't see him being injured frequently as the reason of the trade it was more a finance thing.Might be a sign that we will roll on budget when cap rise next few years.
Time will tell but for me Cozens is more similar to Koteniami than Turris. All Buffalo fans knows that Cozens has really low IQ can't fix that.Norris strenght was actually his good IQ.I don't see him being injured frequently as the reason of the trade it was more a finance thing.Might be a sign that we will roll on budget when cap rise next few years.
Im not sure if this makes us better in the short term or even long term, feels like a downgrade in some respects at the 2C position if that's where he's slated to play. However, I can see it from the management side that they got rid of a big question mark for something more reliable and a little cheaper and younger. I don't know if this helps us much going forward, time will tell I guess.
SensHulk
Registered User
Not gonna lie…the comments from Sabres fans is not re-assuring at all on Cozens whereas Sens fans seem to be way more positive on Norris
BondraTime
Registered User
To be fair, we were also told Jensen was a husk of a player who could barely play in the league anymore 7 months ago
If you took what was being said about Batherson now on here by a majority of guys a team aqcuiring him would be shell shocked with the negative things being said
Usually things need to be taken with a grain of salt from fans, us included. Rangers were told by us that Zib had no drive and no toolbox and was just a waste of potential, until he wasn't
Look at what was said about Chabot by 99% of this fanbase as recent as October.
Cozens likely looks better here than he did in Buffalo this season, whether he can get back to his 30-35 seasons is too be seen.
See it all the time in guys moving to different teams
Last edited:
FunkySeeFunkyDoo
Registered User
ReginKarlssonLehner
Let's Win It All
Sabres fan coming in peace, as we apparently have to say
I'm just going to be blunt...Cozens is the absolute last guy that will "prop up" his linemates. I know Norris isn't that guy either, but want this to be known. Every single player that Cozens played more than a few random shifts with got worse with him. The team was basically under water every time he stepped on the ice.
He's an actively terrible hockey player at this very moment but that's not to say he can't be fixed. He'll have the occasional good game but by and large it's been about 150-175 games of uninspiring listless play. The biggest warts I notice in his game are as follows:
-Terrible hockey IQ - I'd probably put him in the bottom 1/10 of league in this regard. He doesn't see the ice well, doesn't position himself well both offensively and defensively and gets himself running around. Not sure how much this can be fixed but it can certainly be masked. We all thought he'd thrive under Lindy like many other centers have over the years.
-Lacks clutch ability - He seemed to shrink in big games or against tougher opponents. The Sabres, believe it or not, came very close to making the playoffs two seasons ago. He played well early in the year when the team had no expectations whatsoever. But as the team got closer to the reality of making the playoffs and every game mattered, he literally disappeared down the stretch. He was being outplayed badly by Casey Mittelstadt. There's a reason he doesn't have many GWG over his career. He's more the type of guy that will score when things are going well for the team. If Sabres management had peeled back the onion, they'd have seen that Cozens was putting up points in a lot of "empty calorie" ways but wasn't driving the bus, so to speak.
-Not a good playmaker - He's not a good passer and doesn't have the vision to see plays develop. Goes along with hockey IQ, but a point worth making.
-Lacks accuracy on his shot. He's largely been a sub-10% shooter his entire career outside of one outlier season where his shooting % skyrocketed. Like many, he's streaky and can get hot for a few games. But largely, he's the guy frustratingly shooting right into the goalies crest. This goes back to his early days, you could just see that he's not very accurate. He has what appears to be a decent release and will snipe from distance at times. He could easily pop in 25-30 again with a lot going his way. He's really struggled to score goals in all of his seasons but one, which a majority came in the first half with a crazy %.
Where I think he could find his way...
PK'ing - He's showed some promise as a PK'er, especially last season. Lindy Ruff hasn't used him there as he prefers McLeod and others. But under Granato last season, Cozens showed some decent ability to score SHG's. He's again, not very clutch on defensive zone draws however.
As a matchup player - Occasionally our coaches would use him to match up against a McDavid or Matthews in a given game. This was never consistent, but when they did it he seemed to fare decently when give this task. He's like a dog being told to do something simple and seems he's able to comprehend it. It's when he's asked to do too much his head start spinning and it's miserable to watch. Something tells me if he'd been developed as a 3rd liner type, he'd be a better NHL'er. Sadly at $7M, that luxury went out the window.
As a Top 6 Winger - I truly don't think Dylan is a top 6-capable center in this league. But do think his game could translate to the wing. He could be a lot like Alex Tuch, who is a fantastic player for us. Straight line speed, ability to carry to puck away from the traffic of the center and using his size more. IMO, this is what the Sens should do with him. I've been banging this drum for years but once we paid him the big contract and traded Mittelstadt, we painted ourselves into a corner. It was immediately apparent after trading Mitts that we were in a world of hurt with him as the 2C and no one else behind him.
Thanks for reading my essay. Overall, I'm very passionate about Cozens, as I've long despised his game but from the bottom of my heart wanted him to be good. He was on paper, everything NHL teams want and it just hardly translated into anything positive. Needless to say, I'm happy to see him moved at this juncture, it was time. Norris is not the return I was hoping for but am happy to have someone who is a true NHL Center. I'd have preferred Cozens be moved in a larger package for EP40 for instance, as the Sabres are dying for a playmaker and have a bunch of shoot-first centers. I know that's not what we're getting in Norris, but if he can be competent defensively, come through in the clutch and help our dismal PP then it'll likely make the Sabres a bit better than they've been. I hate to say it, but getting Cozens away from this team will likely be addition by subtraction. That doesn't mean that he'll be bad for the Sens, I want that to be clear. I truly can see this working for both teams. Best of luck!
Thank you gents for taking the time... but with due respect... all this and he still pacing 40 points or higher in every season outside his rookie year? On a trash Buffalo team(no offense)? The same player who led Canada in WC scoring 2 years in a row (edit: one point behind bath).
Historic season in WJC? Excellent WJC as 18 year old? Excellent WJC 18 performance? Excellent last year in WHL?
If we are getting a 6'3 guy who has been excellent everywhere except Buffalo, where guys like O'Reilly, Reinhart and so on have scored over 20 points almost immediately after leaving.
I mean, he did score 30 goals and almost 70 points as 21 year old in the one season Buffalo was relevant.
He just turned 24. I am not discrediting what ya'll saying, but... hard to really comprehend. Could be situational like BondraTime is saying, which we have seen with many guys on your team, guys that departed us before, Bennett etc.
Or maybe he is just a ~ 45 point player. The good news is he is double scoring Norris 5on5 which is where we desperately need help.
Last edited:
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
There was a time not so long ago that it was perceived that the Norris contract was untradeable, and if he played well enough for someone to take it, that would be a win.
We’ve been crossing our fingers and talking about our record when we have all our Cs in the line-up but it was becoming increasingly apparent that it was rare and Norris was often the culprit.
Obviously we take some risk on as well to make that deal, but you’re not going to fleece someone with a player that has had 3 shoulder surgeries in 5 years.
Norris is a smooth, cerebral player but he has his Chris Tierney moments where you barely notice him out there.
We’ve been crossing our fingers and talking about our record when we have all our Cs in the line-up but it was becoming increasingly apparent that it was rare and Norris was often the culprit.
Obviously we take some risk on as well to make that deal, but you’re not going to fleece someone with a player that has had 3 shoulder surgeries in 5 years.
Norris is a smooth, cerebral player but he has his Chris Tierney moments where you barely notice him out there.
One of the things to consider about Cozens is that in Buffalo, he's had zero insulation at the center position. Here are the other guys they've had at C in his time there: Mittlestatd, Krebs, Jost, Asplund, Hinostroza, Kulich, McLeod, Girgensons.
That's a who's who of not much. Taking a 22-24 year old, on a bad team, and expecting him to be the guy in all situations right off the bat is tough. Most can't do it.
But in Ottawa, Stützle will continue getting the top minutes and I expect Pinto to take on the bigger defensive role that Norris was in.
That should free up Cozens to go up against 3rd lines and pairings, think less, and hopefully, create some offense at 5v5.
That's a who's who of not much. Taking a 22-24 year old, on a bad team, and expecting him to be the guy in all situations right off the bat is tough. Most can't do it.
But in Ottawa, Stützle will continue getting the top minutes and I expect Pinto to take on the bigger defensive role that Norris was in.
That should free up Cozens to go up against 3rd lines and pairings, think less, and hopefully, create some offense at 5v5.
Last edited:
BigRig4
Registered User
- Feb 22, 2014
- 3,799
- 2,142
The whole “sabres fan coming in peace” thing where they come in unsolicited and dump on the guy they just sent over is super weird lmao.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
The message I’m getting from the move is a great deal of confidence in how Shane Pinto is developing.
Reminds me of some of the Capitals fans who said Jensen couldn't skate...
