OT: Other Sports aka CSU Football Thread XX
- Thread starter tigervixxxen
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Gee weird, why am I not surprised. The league won't do anything of value. Maybe a fine, but what do the Patriots care, they got away with it and got to the Super Bowl doing it.
The league should strip them of all their draft picks next year or ban Belichick for an entire season like they did to Sean Payton. It's getting absurd, I'm mean how many times have they been caught cheating? Like 3 or 4, and BS that they aren't cheating every single game they just aren't getting caught every time.
Yeah, total Delta Bravo move. It's gotta be tough to go back to work for the guy.
Very odd situation. It is a little funny that as smart as the Pats are, they are the only ones stupid enough to get caught cheating...several times.
RockLobster
King in the North
Numerous people already said that when the news broke the worse they would do would be strip draft picks.
Deflating balls isn't the same as basically overseeing (or having no problem with, however you want to spin it) and then trying to cover up a Bounty's for injuring players.
And it's not like the deflated balls played a big role in the game anyway, the Colts were in way over their heads. The Patriots will (rightfully) have a certain number of draft picks stripped, but that's the most this would call for anyway (apparently from people who are way more in the know than I).
They could have played with clumps of dirt and the Pats would have won by 3 touchdowns.
I would never call for a suspension for just deflating footballs, its the fact that this is at least the 3rd time the team has been caught cheating in some shape of form. When over the same time period no other team (other than McDaniels (who in my book was just sent here to purposely destroy one of NE's biggest competitors) when he was the Broncos coach) has been caught cheating. And the Broncos pretty much fired him for that incident.
Belichick continually cheats, but never has to pay for it. Ban him for a year, maybe he'll get the point that it's not OK to cheat.
Deflating footballs doesn't seem like a big deal but I'm sure it made a slight difference for Brady and the receivers on a windy rainy night. Luck was struggling with accuracy, maybe if he had a deflated football his accuracy would have been better and maybe the Colts don't drop some slippery footballs. Not saying the Colts would have won but it probably would have been a closer game had the Patriots not had deflated footballs.
RockLobster
King in the North
It isn't okay to cheat, and I agree that he should be penalized for it....and the NFL will take away draft picks which is apparently what they feel is adequate punishment (if we are to be believed from the journalists who have written about it).
McDaniels wasn't sent to the Broncos to "destroy" them...he was an OC who was given a chance at a HC position and he took it, any thought to the contrary is just wild speculation and really kind of "conspiracy theory"-ish.
But above all else, the Patriots still put up 28 points after they checked the balls and presumably changed them to correctly inflated ones. The Colts never realistically had a chance because their Defense was extremely uneven all year and they have shown themselves to be a team built exactly like they were when Peyton was there--they're built solely around the QB and how he can run the offense.
The Colts were losing regardless, underinflated footballs wasn't really changing that.
Fully agree that the Pats still would have won going away, which is why this is even more mind blowing. They didn't need to do anything to win, but they did it anyways. Belichick needs to be taught a lesson, the franchise needs to learn a lesson about playing the game the right way. Taking away they 31st or 32nd pick isn't going to do jack.
It seems Shannon Sharpe shares my opinion:
shannon sharpe @ShannonSharpe 40m40 minutes ago
If these allegations are true . A mil dollar fine, lost of 1st rder and Belichick should be suspended for a yr = to bounty gate.
The sad part is that this team would still be a great one, but they choose to create their own cloud of doubt. I can only imagine how many other times "cheating" events were missed by the NFL.
Been in Colorado for almost 20 years from NH and I am still very much a Bruins and Red Sox fan. The Pats? Not so much.
Been in Colorado for almost 20 years from NH and I am still very much a Bruins and Red Sox fan. The Pats? Not so much.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
The Ravens suspect deflated balls too.
If it doesn't make a difference then why do it? They've been the most dominant team in a decade so why tarnish it by cheating? At this point you KNOW you are under the microscope more than other teams.
I'm not going to get righteous about it, I'm sure EVERY team bend the rules in some manner. But I agree, how much is enough? Where do you draw the line? A player who wears his socks too high gets $20,000 fine but a team that might have cheated their way to the Super Bowl is
If it doesn't make a difference then why do it? They've been the most dominant team in a decade so why tarnish it by cheating? At this point you KNOW you are under the microscope more than other teams.
I'm not going to get righteous about it, I'm sure EVERY team bend the rules in some manner. But I agree, how much is enough? Where do you draw the line? A player who wears his socks too high gets $20,000 fine but a team that might have cheated their way to the Super Bowl is
RockLobster
King in the North
That's great that Sharpe thinks that, but the reality is deflating footballs are not the same as running a systematic bounty on players.
No one got injured as a result of deflated balls, I suspect that and the fact that Payton did a lot to try and cover it up played a big role in his 1 year suspension.
First I'm hearing that, and I'm not sure I believe them anyway. Didn't hear a lick about it after they lost, but now that it has come out it seems like they're doing the equivalent of "Oh, uhhh....yeah, we thought that too!"
Harbaugh just is having a hard time believing that he lost with the "Best QB in all of Football" Joe Flacco.
But you, and everyone else asking the same question, have a point--if it doesn't/wouldn't make a difference then why do it? I hope Bellichick is punished, but it's going to have to be a punishment in line with the crime, which is why I still believe that 1 year ban is too severe, because at that point they're saying this is the equivalent of running a bounty system designed to injure players, and it's just not the same.
Give him a multi-million dollar fine (and say it's because the team is considered a repeat offender) and take away their 1st or 2nd round draft pick, or both, or more. But I would hardly call this "cheating their way to the Super Bowl" when they clearly outplayed the Ravens and the Colts to get there.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I actually think fixing a game to your advantage is worse than whatever physical brutality bountygate brought on.
The Ravens suspect deflated balls too.
If it doesn't make a difference then why do it? They've been the most dominant team in a decade so why tarnish it by cheating? At this point you KNOW you are under the microscope more than other teams.
I'm not going to get righteous about it, I'm sure EVERY team bend the rules in some manner. But I agree, how much is enough? Where do you draw the line? A player who wears his socks too high gets $20,000 fine but a team that might have cheated their way to the Super Bowl is
I don't agree with this statement, if every team bent the rules past the point of what is legal, then more teams would have been caught. There is no way that if everybody was doing the same thing as the Patriots were doing, that the Patriots would be the only ones that got caught. Another team would have been caught by now.
How come the Patriots are the only team that has been caught cheating during the Belichick era?
RockLobster
King in the North
28 more points went on the scoreboard after the Refs changed the balls.
Nothing was "fixed to their advantage".
Agree, the Patriots basically cheated their way to a Super Bowl. Who knows if they were the best team in the AFC, I thought they'd be tough to beat but now that they been caught cheating AGAIN, it raises doubt to the validity of their victories, especially now that some Ravens are saying the same thing. That was a close game that could have been altered by deflated balls.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
So they could see into the future before they did it? What if the game was close then what? What about if they did it to the Ravens? If they didn't need it why do it? And there is no justification for cheating. Cheating is cheating. It's like saying I was going to pass the class anyway, I just cheated to get an A, who cares?
RockLobster
King in the North
Again. They scored 28 more points after the refs checked the ball. I don't like Bill any more than the next guy, but I don't see how this is at all anywhere close to "cheating their way to the Super Bowl".
They outplayed Baltimore and Indianapolis. I don't buy for a second that Baltimore believed the balls were deflated because they're only now saying so. (at least that's my understanding since this is the first I'm hearing that they've alluded/said that)
The Patriots still steamrolled the Colts after the balls were taken out of play, I would be believing you guys on the "cheated their way to the Super Bowl" thing if they would have just barely hung on, but they didn't, they somehow put up more offense.
I still think it's strange that it took an Indy LB and not the officials who were handling the ball all through the 1st half to catch on. How did that get by them?
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
I just don't believe every team operates like saints (no pun intended). Not to say every team cheats. It's just typical when controversies happen people get on the soapbox. I consciously try not to do that. I'm not going to act like all my teams operate 100% clean. But if they get caught doing something it's reasonable to expect punishment.
RockLobster
King in the North
You're saying a lot of "if" in this whole post.
The score was 17-7 at the Half...that's a relatively close game. They came out of the Half and then dominated the rest of the game. This was after the Officials were made aware of the potential issue.
I already said that I'm having a hard time believing the Ravens if they are really claiming they suspect the balls were deflated for their game too...because when it comes out like that it just seems like sour grapes. And if they had made mention of it to the NFL Officials, the word would have gotten out, it always does--that's why we found out about this before the NFL could officially comment on it, the press got the story.
The Patriots and/or Bill should absolutely be punished. I'm just trying to take a realistic approach here and say that they would suspend him for 1 year. He could and may very well be suspended, but it would be for 1 year, because they don't want to say that this is just as bad as purposefully trying to injure players and paying money for it...and I would agree with the NFL on that one, this isn't the same at all.
If they did it against Baltimore, which wouldn't surprise me one bit, that game could have been altered by a play or two. And you're crazy if you think the Pats outplayed the Ravens that was a good close game, where it really could have gone either way.
Once a cheater always a cheater, I don't put any value in any of the Patriots success during the Belichick era, it impossible to know what they actually accomplished on their own. I mean they were video taping other teams walk throughs. So basically they knew what to expect come game time. Now they have been caught deflating footballs to give Brady and receivers an advantage. Who knows what other garbage they've done that they haven't been caught doing.
Everything they've accomplished should have an asterisk, just like all the things Bonds/Clemons etc. accomplished in baseball with the help of steroids. Cheating is cheating and it shouldn't be tolerated.
tigervixxxen
Optimism=Delusional
What difference does it make how it came out or who noticed it? If they got caught breaking a rule then they broke a rule. I don't care at all if it actually helped them or not. Who knows if it did? The judge, jury and executioner isn't all going to happen in one night, obviously let's hear more to this story. So far we know the balls WERE low. Ok, how and why did it happen? Maybe there is an explanation, maybe there isn't. But given prior history it's not a leap to be disappointed and skeptical.
Maybe the Ravens actually have some class and didn't want to sound like a bunch of whiners after playing a hard fought close game. But now that the Colts complained they might as well make the NFL aware that they had their suspicions as well.
RockLobster
King in the North
Ravens having class?
The same Ravens that employ John Harbaugh, who after the game was whining about the plays the Patriots ran with the quick change in eligible receivers being illegal? (which wasn't by the way, Harbaugh is just a crybaby)
Yeah, I'll believe the Ravens have class when pigs fly or Harbaugh is gone from that organization (whichever comes first--though I would love to see a pig fly)
RockLobster
King in the North
You need to point to where I said cheating was tolerated, because I haven't said that at all. In fact, I've agreed that punishment should be handed out, and it will be handed out. The only thing I've disagreed with was the ridiculous notion that Bill should get a 1 year suspension, because I don't think he will get that, nor should I believe he get that. He can and should get a suspension, but I don't believe it would be 1 year.
He should also be fined, an incredibly substantial amount, on top of losing the Draft Picks he apparently values so much.
I think it's kinda funny picturing Bob Kraft desperately trying to find a ball boy to pay off to take the blame.
Second, if the league finds the Pats did nothing intentional, it doesn't matter. Because of spygate and because of the way the league handled Ray Rice, neither side has any credibility. They are already guilty in the court of public opinion and now with the Ravens claiming they had suspicions...if they beat Seattle it will be considered just as tainted as their first 3.
And maybe that is the best punishment. Sure chowds...you won 4 Super Bowls but you got there by cheating. And at least 3 of those titles were possibly directly affected by that cheating. They are tainted victories, maybe Brady was only better than Manning because Peyton didn't cheat, etc...this will diminish the legacy.
If it is found they did it intentionally, Goddell has to bring the hammer down. At the very least on the level of New Orleans because the Pats are repeat offenders.
Second, if the league finds the Pats did nothing intentional, it doesn't matter. Because of spygate and because of the way the league handled Ray Rice, neither side has any credibility. They are already guilty in the court of public opinion and now with the Ravens claiming they had suspicions...if they beat Seattle it will be considered just as tainted as their first 3.
And maybe that is the best punishment. Sure chowds...you won 4 Super Bowls but you got there by cheating. And at least 3 of those titles were possibly directly affected by that cheating. They are tainted victories, maybe Brady was only better than Manning because Peyton didn't cheat, etc...this will diminish the legacy.
If it is found they did it intentionally, Goddell has to bring the hammer down. At the very least on the level of New Orleans because the Pats are repeat offenders.
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