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He wasn’t on the Yankees when they won in 1996 or 1998.

Who really cares? This is such an absurd argument. You are splitting hairs over a couple of years. I think the point is pretty clear. The Yankees, despite all the money they spend, have only won championships in this millennium through rampant cheating.

McNamee has testified that Clemens became interested in using steroids again in the second-half of the 2000 season, and that he personally injected Clemens with steroids and HGH "four to six times."

Indeed, following the All-Star game that season, Clemens lost only two starts, transforming his record from 4-6 to 13-8 by season's end while his ERA dropped from 4.33 to 3.70.

Four of their five starting pitchers in 2000 showed up on the Mitchell report. They f***ing hired McNamee when Clemens came over from Toronto. I guarantee they knew what was going on.
 
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Who really cares? This is such an absurd argument. You are splitilting hairs over a couple of years. I think the point is pretty clear. The Yankees, despite all the money they spend, have only won championships in this millennium through rampant cheating.



Four of their five starting pitchers in 2000 showed up on the Mitchell report. They f***ing hired McNamee when Clemens came over from Toronto. I guarantee they knew what was going on.
That wasn’t the point of the discussion. People may have turned it into a referendum on the Yankees over the past twenty years, but the point I’ve been responding to was the repeated assertion that all of the Yankee championships of the 90s are tainted by steroids. It’s simply untrue.
 
That wasn’t the point of the discussion. People may have turned it into a referendum on the Yankees over the past twenty years, but the point I’ve been responding to was the repeated assertion that all of the Yankee championships of the 90s are tainted by steroids. It’s simply untrue.
I think all of baseball in the late nineties is tainted by steroids, and I don't see why the Yankees would be excluded from that. I find it hard to believe any of the major contenders in that timeframe weren't juicing. But whatever.

f*** the Yankees. :laugh:
 
Four of their five starting pitchers in 2000 showed up on the Mitchell report.
That is not true.

I think all of baseball in the late nineties is tainted by steroids, and I don't see why the Yankees would be excluded from that. I find it hard to believe any of the major contenders in that timeframe weren't juicing. But whatever.

f*** the Yankees. :laugh:
2000-2010 is also tainted by steroids throughout, except for Chicago White Sox fans who like to pretend 2005 is the lone exception and only everyone else was cheating. Can’t have it both ways.
 
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That is not true.


2000-2010 is also tainted by steroids throughout, except for Chicago White Sox fans who like to pretend 2005 is the lone exception and only everyone else was cheating. Can’t have it both ways.

Oh, I'm sorry. Three of them. Four of their world series pitchers total. Clemens, Pettite, Neagle, Stanton.... all on the report.

The difference is pretty obvious. One team has confirmed steroid users. Another team has a guy or two suspected of maybe using them at some point.
 
That is not true.


2000-2010 is also tainted by steroids throughout, except for Chicago White Sox fans who like to pretend 2005 is the lone exception and only everyone else was cheating. Can’t have it both ways.
Where is the evidence that 05 sox players were juicing though? No one's name (outside of Everett) came up in any allegations or reports AFAIK. The Sox in 05 were 22nd in the league in HR's, 18th in SLG% and OPS%, yet were 5TH in league batting average. Steroid-based power ball wasn't their MO that year so it'd make sense that none of them were juicing.

Looking up some 2005 stats, Derek Lee led the league in batting average with .335 that year. WOW.
 
Where is the evidence that 05 sox players were juicing though? No one's name (outside of Everett) came up in any allegations or reports AFAIK. The Sox in 05 were 22nd in the league in HR's, 18th in SLG% and OPS%, yet were 5TH in league batting average. Steroid-based power ball wasn't their MO that year so it'd make sense that none of them were juicing.

Looking up some 2005 stats, Derek Lee led the league in batting average with .335 that year. WOW.
I didn’t say there is evidence. Where’s the evidence that the 1998 Yankees were juicing? I keep asking, and people respond with players who weren’t even on the team.
 
Oh, I'm sorry. Three of them. Four of their world series pitchers total. Clemens, Pettite, Neagle, Stanton.... all on the report.

The difference is pretty obvious. One team has confirmed steroid users. Another
Let's also not forget that the Yankees had the most players implicated in the Mitchell report out of all major league teams. 26 in total.


It would be naive to believe they weren't using in the late 90's as well.
The 1998 Yankees didn’t have a single player hit over 28 hr. To accuse them of juicing without a shred of evidence is specious af. No reason to think they’re any more suspect than the 2005 cws.
 
The 1998 Yankees didn’t have a single player hit over 28 hr. To accuse them of juicing without a shred of evidence is specious af. No reason to think they’re any more suspect than the 2005 cws.

They had more pitchers caught than position players. Using only homers seems disingenuous.

There's also an argument to be made that pitchers benefit more from PEDs than hitters.
 
What a silly argument all around.

With baseball it’s not if you’re cheating… it’s how you’re cheating given the era.
 
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What a silly argument all around.

With baseball it’s not if you’re cheating… it’s how you’re cheating given the era.

Yep. Even with the 2005 Sox, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one of those guys was using.
 
They had more pitchers caught than position players. Using only homers seems disingenuous.

There's also an argument to be made that pitchers benefit more from PEDs than hitters.
What evidence is there that any evidence snore used peds in 1998?
 
Yep. Even with the 2005 Sox, it wouldn't surprise me at all if one of those guys was using.
At least your consistent then, which is all I’m asking. That also makes there World Series win as illegitimate as the rest of them from the era, to the extent why are considered illegitimate.
 
At least your consistent then, which is all I’m asking. That also makes there World Series win as illegitimate as the rest of them from the era, to the extent why are considered illegitimate.

I dunno. I feel like everyone was doing it, so the playing field seems pretty level to me. It's the huge outliers like 2000 Yankees, 2017 Astros, 2009 Yankees that really bother me. Impossible to ignore.
 
I don't even care about the cheating. Bonds was awesome. The best hitter since Ted Williams. So much fun.

The Astro's get hate from me because of how douchey they acted until they couldn't. Made fun villains. Brought back Lance Berkman levels of hate.
 
I dunno. I feel like everyone was doing it, so the playing field seems pretty level to me. It's the huge outliers like 2000 Yankees, 2017 Astros, 2009 Yankees that really bother me. Impossible to ignore.
If everyone is doing it then there are no outliers. It doesn't stand to reason that everyone juicing was named in the Mitchell report.
I don't even care about the cheating. Bonds was awesome. The best hitter since Ted Williams. So much fun.

The Astro's get hate from me because of how douchey they acted until they couldn't. Made fun villains. Brought back Lance Berkman levels of hate.
I care about the juicing to the extent that it affects individual records and accomplishments that transcend eras. I don't really care when comparing teams within a given season/era.
 
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As usual Green gets away with his nonsense

No discipline from team

After the video came out i won't be shocked if they change their tune. That said, don't pretend like michael jordan dodnt famously punch steve kerr. This type of thing is not uncommon in pro sports. Not saying its okay, but it's not as if draymond punching poole is a rare case of fighting at practice.
 
Toronto at home up 9-6 two outs top of the ninth bases loaded and the Mariners hit a bloop double to bring everyone home. Tie game with Bichette and Springer down on the ground hurt.

The building went Boston Garden game 6 quiet real quick.
 
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