Proposal: Other offers for PK Subban

[Frank Drebin]

Then you have not heard Brian Wylde talk on the TSN radio, nor have you seen the quotes where people say Subban's problem is being too flashy or too much like an NBA or NFL player. People say that he is not like the other guys in the room and you think they mean he is a ballet dancer? Did you also notice that we dumped DSP for nothing? I have no doubt that race is involved in this decision by Bergevin based on what is being said about Subban and the character assassination he has been experiencing. Brian Wylde is a well respected AND connected sports guy (unlike that Schill Tony Marinaro) in Montreal and he is disgusted with how the organization has treated Subban for quite awhile AND is furious over this trade. Subban has had to deal with a lot of racism in his NHL career. You might want to bury your head in the sand, but the reality is what it is. The fact that you think Subban is a self-centred egomaniac proves you know absolutely nothing about the player, on OR off the ice. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, or keep your head buried in the sand, but you should do a little research about the player before simply acting like a blind parrot.

Now, racism is not the sole reason Subban was traded, but it was the impetus. If Subban had been white, or Francophone, he would have to sleep with the team President's wife or have a family allegedly involved in drugs and gangs , or tell the President off on National television to get run out of town like Subban was. The last 3 superstars we traded away were all interesting "characters" with far worse flaws than Subban has demonstrated. If wanting to be flashy and flamboyant are as significant as being an adulterer with the President's wife, being involved in organized crime, or being a true egomaniac who was more interested in leaving a live game to protect his stats rather than help his team in a game, well, I guess we have different tolerance levels.

Yawn. You choose to believe the guy that shares your views and disparage the guy who doesn't. And to use a useless player like dsp (who mb acquired for nothing) as proof? Laughable.

Where are the cries of racism on how galchenyuk has been treated?

 

[Nordic*]

Wouldn't want Subban on either of the teams I "cheer for".

 

[Sniper99]

Edmonton
Fayne
Yak
Reinhart
Eberle

Montreal
Subban

There would be a massive riot in Montreal if Bergevin says "Deal!"

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

There would be a massive riot in Montreal if Bergevin says "Deal!"

Actually, the riot would be in Nashville since our idiot GM already traded Subban. I do like the Weber return far better than what was offered in that post you replied to, though. Wow, that would have been a disgusting trade for the Habs!

 

[Limekiller]

Not that they'd do this, but I suppose theoretically the Sharks could have offered Burns straight up, or maybe with a minor sweetener.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I dont buy this for one moment. Show us the link that says this.

As for the actual proposal, I would have parted with Hall and another piece such as Klefbom for Subban. Thats all. The 4th OA plus Yak for the 9th is fantasy.

according to several reports the ask was


Leon D
number 4
Nurse
Nuge and something else for Subban

 

[JThorne]

Wouldn't want Subban on either of the teams I "cheer for".

Moi aussi!

 

[WesMcCauley]

according to several reports the ask was


Leon D
number 4
Nurse
Nuge and something else for Subban

Lol and you believe that?

Drai, #4 and Nurse would get it done but Chia wasnt willing to do it.

 

[Jumptheshark]

]Lol and you believe that?[/B]

Drai, #4 and Nurse would get it done but Chia wasnt willing to do it.

in the aftermath of the hall trade several talking heads went tsn1260 and said that was the askfor subban

 

[Measles]

Lol and you believe that?

Drai, #4 and Nurse would get it done but Chia wasnt willing to do it.

Elliotte Friedman is one of the most credible NHL reporters, right up there with Bob McKenzie. When he states something as a fact instead of an opinion you can usually take that to the bank. Here's what he said the offer was:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-couldnt-edmonton-montreal-make-deal/

Here's the exerpt:

"The Oilers sure could’ve used Subban. We knew they were talking last week. Montreal initially asked for Leon Draisaitl, the No. 4 pick at Friday’s draft and more. That “more†included either Oscar Klefbom and Darnell Nurse, plus something else. I can’t nail down what that “something else†was, but it was not insignificant. It was a big price to pay, and Edmonton did not want to do that."

So we are looking at Draisaitl, #4OA Pick, Klefbom/Nurse and something else (?Yakupov). That's an insane asking price for a guy making 9m AAV cap hit without a big contract going the other way.

Bergevin overplayed his hand here imo. He had Chiarelli over a barrel but got too greedy. I think Habs will regret this non-trade and the Weber trade for a long time. Maybe not this season or next, but 5 years from now.

 

[Drydenwasthebest]

Elliotte Friedman is one of the most credible NHL reporters, right up there with Bob McKenzie. When he states something as a fact instead of an opinion you can usually take that to the bank. Here's what he said the offer was:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-couldnt-edmonton-montreal-make-deal/

Here's the exerpt:

"The Oilers sure could’ve used Subban. We knew they were talking last week. Montreal initially asked for Leon Draisaitl, the No. 4 pick at Friday’s draft and more. That “more†included either Oscar Klefbom and Darnell Nurse, plus something else. I can’t nail down what that “something else†was, but it was not insignificant. It was a big price to pay, and Edmonton did not want to do that."

So we are looking at Draisaitl, #4OA Pick, Klefbom/Nurse and something else (?Yakupov). That's an insane asking price for a guy making 9m AAV cap hit without a big contract going the other way.

Bergevin overplayed his hand here imo. He had Chiarelli over a barrel but got too greedy. I think Habs will regret this non-trade and the Weber trade for a long time. Maybe not this season or next, but 5 years from now.

I believe the addition was the Oilers 2016 2nd round pick, actually. It was discussed around the draft. I agree with you that Bergevin screwed up. I would rather have Draisatl, 4th overall, and Nurse or Klefbom over just Weber. I would actually rather have Subban over all of them...sigh...

 

[General Fanager]

I believe any deal with Edmonton fell through when Columbus took PLD at #3

 

[Agalloch]

I believe any deal with Edmonton fell through when Columbus took PLD at #3

Same.

Habs wanted Dubois.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Same.

Habs wanted Dubois.

Was it that, or did the oilers expect pool juice to be gone at 4 and suddenly wanted to hang on to it once cbj passed on him?

 

[Bender]

Elliotte Friedman is one of the most credible NHL reporters, right up there with Bob McKenzie. When he states something as a fact instead of an opinion you can usually take that to the bank. Here's what he said the offer was:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-couldnt-edmonton-montreal-make-deal/

Here's the exerpt:

"The Oilers sure could’ve used Subban. We knew they were talking last week. Montreal initially asked for Leon Draisaitl, the No. 4 pick at Friday’s draft and more. That “more†included either Oscar Klefbom and Darnell Nurse, plus something else. I can’t nail down what that “something else†was, but it was not insignificant. It was a big price to pay, and Edmonton did not want to do that."

So we are looking at Draisaitl, #4OA Pick, Klefbom/Nurse and something else (?Yakupov). That's an insane asking price for a guy making 9m AAV cap hit without a big contract going the other way.

Bergevin overplayed his hand here imo. He had Chiarelli over a barrel but got too greedy. I think Habs will regret this non-trade and the Weber trade for a long time. Maybe not this season or next, but 5 years from now.

And there's the rub. Subban being paid $9M as the league's highest paid d-man but not playing like it means the value is less than if his contract was actually $7M per. I don't understand anyone NOT being able to see this simple point. On NO ONE's list is he the best d-man in the league yet he's being paid like it by a significant margin.

It would be like whatever team acquiring him would be getting Subban + a $2M cap dump for the length of his contract (against the cap). Who the hell is ready to pay a premium for that?? The Avs never offered Barrie + Rantanen or the even more ridiculous Barrie+Duchene. They may have inquired and even made an offer but they were never going to go all out and gut their team to acquire Subban at $9M.

The Habs did well to get Weber as I think he'll be very good for them for a good 4-5 years and the Predators also did well getting a bit younger and more dynamic...as long as PK doesn't make it all about PK. If he does, I would expect he'll be on the trade block yet again sooner rather than later.

 

[yababy]

Was it that, or did the oilers expect pool juice to be gone at 4 and suddenly wanted to hang on to it once cbj passed on him?

I think thats exactly it. Once Puljujarvi dropped into the Oilers lap the package became too rich for Subban.

 

[CanadienShark]

Not that they'd do this, but I suppose theoretically the Sharks could have offered Burns straight up, or maybe with a minor sweetener.

This would've been the best scenario (for me), in a 1-for-1 deal. I'd probably still be a fan of both teams, but my main team wins. Man, Subban on SJ would just be unreal. Pair him with Vlasic.... damn. They'd mesh better than Vlasic-Doughty, imo. And Vlasic-Doughty is one of my favourite pairings I've ever seen.

 

[GongShowWilly]

Leafs fan ..... can't believe Habs traded him , would have gave up a ton , but that wouldn't have worked ....lol never would trade him to Leafs
Habs should have got rid of coach/GM before this guy ... ?????

 

[CanadienShark]

And there's the rub. Subban being paid $9M as the league's highest paid d-man but not playing like it means the value is less than if his contract was actually $7M per. I don't understand anyone NOT being able to see this simple point. On NO ONE's list is he the best d-man in the league yet he's being paid like it by a significant margin.

It would be like whatever team acquiring him would be getting Subban + a $2M cap dump for the length of his contract (against the cap). Who the hell is ready to pay a premium for that?? The Avs never offered Barrie + Rantanen or the even more ridiculous Barrie+Duchene. They may have inquired and even made an offer but they were never going to go all out and gut their team to acquire Subban at $9M.

The Habs did well to get Weber as I think he'll be very good for them for a good 4-5 years and the Predators also did well getting a bit younger and more dynamic...as long as PK doesn't make it all about PK. If he does, I would expect he'll be on the trade block yet again sooner rather than later.

I don't see why you don't understand that he isn't the highest paid d-man. He has the highest cap hit because guys like Weber, Keith, etc. have cap circumventing contracts. That high horse of yours.... Not to mention the fact that Doughty, Karlsson, and Pietrangelo are due for their big deals soon. You better bet the former two breach $10m per.

And FWIW, Barrie + Rantanen < Subban

Barrie doesn't even come close to Subban, and Rantanen doesn't make up the gap.

 

[s7ark]

Same.

Habs wanted Dubois.

And the Oilers wanted one of the Finns. Chia was disappointed when they fell out of the top 3

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Edmonton and Montreal would both be better off having made a trade involving Subban

 

[Bender]

I don't see why you don't understand that he isn't the highest paid d-man. He has the highest cap hit because guys like Weber, Keith, etc. have cap circumventing contracts. That high horse of yours.... Not to mention the fact that Doughty, Karlsson, and Pietrangelo are due for their big deals soon. You better bet the former two breach $10m per.

And FWIW, Barrie + Rantanen < Subban

Barrie doesn't even come close to Subban, and Rantanen doesn't make up the gap.

Highest paid, highest cap hit....whatever. It's clearly the cap hit that makes all the difference and exactly what I highlighted in my post but please, feel free to PURPOSEFULLY ignore it to try and argue with semantics.

You can think whatever you want but I'd keep Barrie + Rantanen rather than acquire PK at $9M. PK at $7M...that's a whole other story.

As for the other guys coming up on new deals, prepare to be surprised. Oh they'll make more than they do now but won't break the bank like you think they will. Benn has been in top 10 scoring the past 2-3 years, even won the scoring title and he didn't get more than 10M. Stamkos and Hedman just signed extensions for much less than what everyone thought.

 

[CanadienShark]

Highest paid, highest cap hit....whatever. It's clearly the cap hit that makes all the difference and exactly what I highlighted in my post but please, feel free to PURPOSEFULLY ignore it to try and argue with semantics.

You can think whatever you want but I'd keep Barrie + Rantanen rather than acquire PK at $9M. PK at $7M...that's a whole other story.

As for the other guys coming up on new deals, prepare to be surprised. Oh they'll make more than they do now but won't break the bank like you think they will. Benn has been in top 10 scoring the past 2-3 years, even won the scoring title and he didn't get more than 10M. Stamkos and Hedman just signed extensions for much less than what everyone thought.

Then why do you ignore the fact that cap circumventing deals are no longer possible?

Stamkos hasn't lived up to expectations recently, and Hedman hasn't yet warranted a cap hit that high.

 

[TT1]

Elliotte Friedman is one of the most credible NHL reporters, right up there with Bob McKenzie. When he states something as a fact instead of an opinion you can usually take that to the bank. Here's what he said the offer was:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-couldnt-edmonton-montreal-make-deal/

Here's the exerpt:

"The Oilers sure could’ve used Subban. We knew they were talking last week. Montreal initially asked for Leon Draisaitl, the No. 4 pick at Friday’s draft and more. That “more†included either Oscar Klefbom and Darnell Nurse, plus something else. I can’t nail down what that “something else†was, but it was not insignificant. It was a big price to pay, and Edmonton did not want to do that."

So we are looking at Draisaitl, #4OA Pick, Klefbom/Nurse and something else (?Yakupov). That's an insane asking price for a guy making 9m AAV cap hit without a big contract going the other way.

Bergevin overplayed his hand here imo. He had Chiarelli over a barrel but got too greedy. I think Habs will regret this non-trade and the Weber trade for a long time. Maybe not this season or next, but 5 years from now.

pretty funny because thats the exact package ive been asking for for well over a year now, way before any of the Subban trade talk started.

 

[Oleg Petrov]

Then why do you ignore the fact that cap circumventing deals are no longer possible?

Stamkos hasn't lived up to expectations recently, and Hedman hasn't yet warranted a cap hit that high.

I think the Hedman contract was pretty indicative of the Habs having paid too much to Subban.

Subban was 25 when he got $9 million Avg for 8 years (giving up 6 UFA years)
Hedman will be 26 turning 27 when he gets $7.9 Avg for 8 years (giving up 8 UFA years)

Do I think Subban is better? Yes, marginally but not by a million against the cap. Not to mention, Hedman was signed at a time when the cap is higher and is giving up two more UFA years.