OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

[PJJJP]

The Cardinals should clean out the front office minus Flores and clean out all the coaches in Double A, Triple A, and major league staff. Our guys do fine at the lower levels and then struggle at the higher ones. They can't seem to make adjustments in the big league and they suck at improving players.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Flaherty had an actual good game? Wtf is this?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Hicks didn't throw the game!

 

[sfvega]

The Cardinals should clean out the front office minus Flores and clean out all the coaches in Double A, Triple A, and major league staff. Our guys do fine at the lower levels and then struggle at the higher ones. They can't seem to make adjustments in the big league and they suck at improving players.

So we're gonna fire the guys at lower levels who are good at producing prospects because our staff in the majors have such a shitty track record with them? We're terrible at letting guys work through stuff. How quickly did we send down Walker? Guys go on a cold streak and lose ABs because of our depth, but that means that guys have a tough time developing because when they need plate appearances the most, they dry up.

We're in the same boat as the Yanks. The problem is the FO (Cashman, Mo) but the skipper ain't helping things. The fact that he thought we could get through this season with a rotation that is injury-prone and under-talented is laughable. Waino only has so many career renaissances in him.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

There are doomer takes and then there's this.

The farm is bare? We are consistently top 10 in rankings from multiple publications.

Gorman isn't a perfect hitter, duh. Not many are. But he's only 23 and he's putting up a 111 OPS+ this season, that's pretty good. Muncy you say? The guy with a 121 career OPS+ who's been in the top 15 of MVP voting multiple times in his career? If that's Gorman's ceiling I'll take that any day.

Wynn is struggling at the plate, no doubt. But not everyone needs to be the next Elly De La Cruz or Jackson Holliday. Wynn is special defensively and you can carry one guy like that on your team, especially if he plays SS.

Our prospect discussion doesn't take into account the value we're going to get back from Goldschmidt and Arenado. I'm not moving either guy unless we get a consensus top 15 type player as the centerpiece of the deal, Painter from Philly would be my target if we trade Goldy there and then as I said an OF (preferably someone who projects as a 4-5 tool centerfielder who hits left-handed.) Druw Jones might be available since Corbin Carroll looks like the real deal and Arizona is actually good this year. If we can't get someone to bite on either guy with a prospect like that then we just keep our MVP caliber guys and try to reset next year.

We are also going to get a solid return for Monty (He's shaping up to be one of the better pitchers available at the deadline if we decide to sell) and probably at least something for JF.

We are also slated to get a high pick (Top 5) in next years draft as we're legit one of the worst teams in the league, and moving Goldy/Arenado is only going to make us worse in the short term.

In a lot of ways, the Cardinals are mirroring the Blues in terms of picking one of the better years to suck. There are a lot of surprise teams that are succeeding and probably won't be looking to sell, a lot of the guys who everyone thought would be top of the market for trade bait are either struggling or injured, and the teams that really really suck (Oakland/Colorado/Washington etc) have nothing much left to sell, making this more of a sellers market then in previous years.

I think the Cardinals need an organizational reset in many ways. To act like we're the Athletics is a bit much though. The Central is still going to suck again next year, and possibly the year after that. We do have a lot of talent, we just need some f***ing pitching to come through our system and make an impact. Flaherty has been an absolute bummer for the last number of years. It happens. Time to move on and reload.

You're entire post is talking about what our system will look like IF we decide to trade off our very best players and teams give up their very best prospects. If we decide to sell off our best players and bring back a haul of prospects, I will definitely re-evaluate my opinion of our farm. Right now, it's in a pretty shitty state in my opinion.

There is no real high end talent waiting to come up. We have a decent amount of depth at pitching but our pitchers are mostly low ceiling options aside from Hence. Now that Walker has been promoted, there is no position player talent.

Masyn Winn is an elite defensive player, which I mentioned. He is a terrible hitter. Paul DeJong won a Gold Glove and has a better bat than Winn will have.

I don't have any issue with Gorman and he's fine in our lineup just like Muncy is fine in the Dodgers lineup. The reason I targeted the post I did was because the Dodgers don't build around Muncy. He's just another guy in their lineup. You don't build around that type of talent.

Lastly, I have never mentioned the A's at all. I specifically said that we need to stop trying to paper over the cracks and just accept a few losing years if we want to build an actual contender. I don't necessarily agree that the Central will be for the taking as the Reds still have several young talents they haven't even promoted yet. They have another pitcher, Connor Phillips, who is tearing up AA and AAA, albeit with a high walk rate. They have arguably the best hitting prospect still in the minors waiting to take over 1b in Christian Encarnacion Strand. They have another top 20 overall prospect at SS, Noelvi Marte, who they received in a deal from Seattle for Castillo. The rest of the clubs are nothing to be envious of but the Reds certainly have a great foundation.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

Flaherty had an actual good game? Wtf is this?

He's actually been pretty good for a little while now. Since May 15, he has a 2.87 ERA in 9 starts and that includes the big blow ups vs SF and at WSH. I'm hoping other teams notice and we're able to get a solid return from him come the trade deadline.

 

[542365]

I’m somehow surprised how badly this team sucks every time I watch them. Every time. This is easily the worst Cards team in my lifetime.

 

[PJJJP]

Our best trade chip Monty gets hurt when he is cruising through the game. Then the bullpen comes in a proceeds to lose us the game. Sounds about right for the 2023 season

 

[Mike Liut]

Our best trade chip Monty gets hurt when he is cruising through the game. Then the bullpen comes in a proceeds to lose us the game. Sounds about right for the 2023 season

We were going to get a haul for Montgomery too. Damn

 

[TheDizee]

Little league managing tonight

 

[TheDizee]

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

This years team would drive anyone to drink.

 

[sfvega]

This years team would drive anyone to drink.

Dan McLaughlin: You just said my two favorite words.

 

[Mike Liut]

A top 5 pick is going to look pretty nice next year

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Who was wearing Matz jersey today? Because they was not him.

 

[Spear]

A top 5 pick is going to look pretty nice next year

Apparently MLB implemented a lottery system beginning this year. Cards could end up higher.

The MLB draft lottery, explained

 

[PJJJP]

Apparently MLB implemented a lottery system beginning this year. Cards could end up higher.

The MLB draft lottery, explained

So with our luck we finish the year with the worst record and then proceed to drop to 7th overall after the lottery

 

[Spear]

So with our luck we finish the year with the worst record and then proceed to drop to 7th overall after the lottery

I would not be surprised at all with that result.

 

[PJJJP]

We select Chase Davis with our pick. I'm actually very happy with this pick.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I don't know a thing about MLB prospects. Lol

 

[Mike Liut]

We select Chase Davis with our pick. I'm actually very happy with this pick.

He looks legit

 

[Memento]

I'm happy with the Chase Davis pick. He's got huge tools and upside and a good floor in a potential center-field package. I'm just wondering if that means we select a potential high-schooler with our third round pick.

 

[TheDizee]

26-36 since this gem

 

[The Note]

Mo's "we have six starters" comment was foolhardy and smug in the moment and has aged like milk since. The team's pitching was a clear flaw to basically anyone who wasn't willfully burying their head in the sand. Granted, the wheels have fallen off in pretty spectacular fashion, but this is the risk you run when your yearly goal is aiming for the minimum amount of wins to make the wild card.

 

[joe galiba]

Mo's "we have six starters" comment was foolhardy and smug in the moment and has aged like milk since. The team's pitching was a clear flaw to basically anyone who wasn't willfully burying their head in the sand. Granted, the wheels have fallen off in pretty spectacular fashion, but this is the risk you run when your yearly goal is aiming for the minimum amount of wins to make the wild card.

the starting pitching is interesting, as 3 of our starters have really come back to more of what we could expect of them, so we have 3 guys at a 2/3 starter level; and Liberatore and Wainwright both have a FIP 2 runs better (though still not good) than their actual ERA which could be lived with in 4/5 starters if the bullpen wasn't so completely putrid
we really do need an ace

relievers are always up and down from year to year, but I cannot recall ever seeing every single guy in a teams bullpen to be worse than expected (and mostly by quite a bit)

and the team's defense has been brutal, and with our style pitching staff the Cards need good defense
Lars and Dejong have been the only guys with decent defense this year, even Arenado has been bad, and Goldy has just been ok, and the outfield defense has been especially horrid
how does a team go from good defensively to bad in one year with the same players