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OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

Also more evidence that the Cards hate players with any personality. Pure white bread at every position. The most boring team you can possibly assemble. If Yadi wasn’t so good he would’ve been long gone years ago. Didn’t sign Stroman, let Wong walk, handed away Bader, guarantee it was a hold up on Soto talks, Arozerena, Garcia etc. etc. f***ing etc.
 
Pitchers like Montgomery are available every single off-season for peanuts. Every one. If Mo would’ve been proactive and saw all of the glaring question marks in the rotation this off-season he could’ve used these pieces to upgrade the bullpen, which is still in absolute shambles outside of Helsley, or an impact bat. Gotta get Mo out of there. Cannot let him butcher the last couple years of Nolan and Goldy with the studs Randy Flores is drafting and the minor leagues are developing. There’s a good team coming, but if we’re handing away core pieces for replacement level starters that could be acquired in free agency, we’ll never see it.
 
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542365 said:
Pitchers like Montgomery are available every single off-season for peanuts. Every one. If Mo would’ve been proactive and saw all of the glaring question marks in the rotation this off-season he could’ve used these pieces to upgrade the bullpen, which is still in absolute shambles outside of Helsley, or an impact bat. Gotta get Mo out of there. Cannot let him butcher the last couple years of Nolan and Goldy with the studs Randy Flores is drafting and the minor leagues are developing. There’s a good team coming, but if we’re handing away core pieces for replacement level starters that could be acquired in free agency, we’ll never see it.
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If Bader is a a member of a playoff team’s core, either the team has 5 all star starting pitchers or the definition of core being used is extremely broad. He’s a complementary starting player at best, you don’t build around players that are great fielders but average (.245) hitters.
 
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Daley Tarasenkshow said:
There’s absolutely no winning with Cardinals fans. They wanted pitching, Mo acquired two solid pitchers, and people hate him and the team even more now.

Bader is a career .246 hitter with little power. He’s not good and trading him for a pitcher is great news.
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You know there's more to baseball than dingers?

I was defending Moz, but this deadline was a dumpster fire. We needed a #2 starter, and we came away with Quintana and JoMo. Our pitching depth wasn't the issue, we needed (especially after the Soto trade) guys who can get through tough lineups in October. Not sure if these guys are even a 3rd starter in a 3-game series if Matz or Flaherty (big if) is healthy.
 
sfvega said:
You know there's more to baseball than dingers?

I was defending Moz, but this deadline was a dumpster fire. We needed a #2 starter, and we came away with Quintana and JoMo. Our pitching depth wasn't the issue, we needed (especially after the Soto trade) guys who can get through tough lineups in October. Not sure if these guys are even a 3rd starter in a 3-game series if Matz or Flaherty (big if) is healthy.
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If you read my later posts you’d see that I admitted to acting rash in calling Bader not good. But that doesn’t change the fact that adding a pitcher like Montgomery for him is a win in my book. In order to play in October, you have to qualify, and Quintana and Montgomery are clear upgrades.
 
Daley Tarasenkshow said:
If you read my later posts you’d see that I admitted to acting rash in calling Bader not good. But that doesn’t change the fact that adding a pitcher like Montgomery for him is a win in my book. In order to play in October, you have to qualify, and Quintana and Montgomery are clear upgrades.
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Fair enough on Bader. But with how stacked the West is and the Mets and Braves being no slouches either, we just spent the deadline trading away a fan favorite to spin our tires while a couple of Lambo's gapped us.
 
ChicagoBlues said:
Not me. He’s been one of the most underwhelming Cardinals in a very long time.

But he can run and his hair flaps around. What’s not to love?

🙄
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Add me to the list that is fine with the trade. Surprised people are so upset. Bader may not even play the rest of the season, how will his speed be impacted once he does come back?
 
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I'm pretty much finished with baseball after the dh. However, I am actively rooting against the cards and all of the rubes that support them. I hope they have a longer drought than the leafs (and I hate the leafs). The Matheny hire, the fumbling of the '12, '13, '15 teams, allowing the cubs to win a world series (what a pitiful round), getting fowler (omegalul) and this desire for constant mediocrity. MO is garbage and always has been. Lunhow would've won at least 2 WS if hedve been picked instead of MO. I imagine it goes to the top w/ DeWitt and it's not all MO's fault, but it's clear to me that they have no interest in winning a world series. They can take advantage of the history and popularity and just be good enough. That'll keep the seats filled. This team is so far from the blooze it's unbelievable.
 
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Fez Whatley said:
I'm pretty much finished with baseball after the dh. However, I am actively rooting against the cards and all of the rubes that support them. I hope they have a longer drought than the leafs (and I hate the leafs). The Matheny hire, the fumbling of the '12, '13, '15 teams, allowing the cubs to win a world series (what a pitiful round), getting fowler (omegalul) and this desire for constant mediocrity. MO is garbage and always has been. Lunhow would've won at least 2 WS if hedve been picked instead of MO. I imagine it goes to the top w/ DeWitt and it's not all MO's fault, but it's clear to me that they have no interest in winning a world series. They can take advantage of the history and popularity and just be good enough. That'll keep the seats filled. This team is so far from the blooze it's unbelievable.
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If the blues don’t win game 7 we’d be talking about how the blues will never be the cardinals haha.
 
Fez Whatley said:
I'm pretty much finished with baseball after the dh. However, I am actively rooting against the cards and all of the rubes that support them. I hope they have a longer drought than the leafs (and I hate the leafs). The Matheny hire, the fumbling of the '12, '13, '15 teams, allowing the cubs to win a world series (what a pitiful round), getting fowler (omegalul) and this desire for constant mediocrity. MO is garbage and always has been. Lunhow would've won at least 2 WS if hedve been picked instead of MO. I imagine it goes to the top w/ DeWitt and it's not all MO's fault, but it's clear to me that they have no interest in winning a world series. They can take advantage of the history and popularity and just be good enough. That'll keep the seats filled. This team is so far from the blooze it's unbelievable.
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dont forget bowtie boy's brilliant Mike Leake signing
 
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Em etah Eh said:
If the blues don’t win game 7 we’d be talking about how the blues will never be the cardinals haha.
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Meh. For better or worse, the blooze have shown a willingness to go for it. Those early to mid 2010 cards teams were incredibly mismanaged from Matheny up, it killed any sort of enthusiasm I had. Then with the fowler signing I saw the writing on the wall. The DA blooze weren't really ever like that. Sure the 1st round exits were excruciating (especially vs the wild), but DA adjusted and learned from his mistakes. I have 0 faith MO and DeWitt have any ambition to build a winner. There's no need as the "best fans in baseball" will pack the place for an 0-162 team.
 
BrokenFace said:
Bader is the best defensive center fielder in baseball. Him playing every day might save more runs against over a season than the difference between Montgomery and a replacement level starting pitcher. Bader is also a lot younger.

I don't know baseball well enough to comment on trades, but this stinks to me. If we would have addressed our pitching in the off-season we would be in 1st in the central and wouldn't have had to trade a gold glove center fielder.
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A lot younger as in 1.5 hrs? Bader isn’t consistent offensively and has been injury prone. Also plenty of rumors he didn’t take kindly to trying new technology to improve his plate discipline and hitting approach. I was a fan but honestly am not surprised to see him traded
 
542365 said:
Pitchers like Montgomery are available every single off-season for peanuts. Every one. If Mo would’ve been proactive and saw all of the glaring question marks in the rotation this off-season he could’ve used these pieces to upgrade the bullpen, which is still in absolute shambles outside of Helsley, or an impact bat. Gotta get Mo out of there. Cannot let him butcher the last couple years of Nolan and Goldy with the studs Randy Flores is drafting and the minor leagues are developing. There’s a good team coming, but if we’re handing away core pieces for replacement level starters that could be acquired in free agency, we’ll never see it.
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May I ask why you're upset that they traded Bader?

Bader has plantar fasciitis, which may impact the most important part of his game that brings positive value (defense). Take away his defense, and speed while we're at it, and he becomes a very mediocre OF option who can barely hit enough to justify being in the bigs.

Montgomery is a very good middle of the rotation option who is under team control through next season. There's plenty of reasons as to why to not like the FO, but what they did at the TDL, IMO, isn't one of them.

And trading Bader makes room for Walker to be on the big league roster sooner than later presuming he moves to OF.

This is the first TDL by Mozeliak since like 2014 where I'm actually happy with the moves he made.

542365 said:
Also more evidence that the Cards hate players with any personality. Pure white bread at every position. The most boring team you can possibly assemble. If Yadi wasn’t so good he would’ve been long gone years ago. Didn’t sign Stroman, let Wong walk, handed away Bader, guarantee it was a hold up on Soto talks, Arozerena, Garcia etc. etc. f***ing etc.
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I didn't like them letting Wong walk, but Edman's put up over 3+ bWAR starting in 2021 and 2022. He has 4.4(!) bWAR this season while Wong has 1.4. It also allows Gorman to play.

Adolis Garcia had no clear spot on the roster. Nice guy to have, but he wouldn't be more than a 4th or 5th OF here.

The Arozarena trade may still work out depending how Liberatore turns out.

The critcisim regarding starting pitching is fair.
 
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I just finished watching a tribute video to Vin Scully. His voice reminded me of simpler times. It's impossible for me to sit down and watch a baseball game these days. Too much noise.

I miss those days. R.I.P.
 
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Louie the Blue said:
Adolis Garcia had no clear spot on the roster. Nice guy to have, but he wouldn't be more than a 4th or 5th OF here.
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I would also say that he was cut by the Rangers after we traded him to them and he only made the team because an outfielder got hurt in spring training. Then he broke out. It doesn't really make sense what happened but it happened.
 
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bluesfan94 said:
I would also say that he was cut by the Rangers after we traded him to them and he only made the team because an outfielder got hurt in spring training. Then he broke out. It doesn't really make sense what happened but it happened.
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Precisely.

He’d be an upgrade over Noot or Dickerson. He wouldn’t be playing everyday here.
 
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