Ontario Reign 21-22 Thread 2: Reigndrops keep falling on my head

[LAKings88]

LA Kings....where defensive studs come to untap their offensive games. LOL. Too easy

Or centers are turned into wingers

 

[regulate]

 

[regulate]

Why not another year in Finland and hopefully a better season before coming over so young?

Man, Blake has to be the most aggressive GM in the league when it comes to putting junior aged players in the AHL.

It's the right move. He's already played two full seasons of pro hockey in Europe against men. He's 6'6" and pretty strong by accounts so you are not worried about him handling the physical aspect of the game. Plus he's already signed to a Kings NHL contract, so why not? It's not like the Reign are deep right now with ECHL and PTO players in their line up due to all the injuries. It's going to be delayed some as he does have an American passport (dual citizenship) but it's expired, so he's working on getting that straightened out. He turns 20 near the beginning of next season and is already penciled in on the Reign. It's time to start getting acclimated to playing in North America.

 

[lumbergh]

Playoffs baby!

 

[kings11]

LA Kings....where defensive studs come to untap their offensive games. LOL. Too easy

Lmfao..

 

[Herby]

It's the right move. He's already played two full seasons of pro hockey in Europe against men. He's 6'6" and pretty strong by accounts so you are not worried about him handling the physical aspect of the game. Plus he's already signed to a Kings NHL contract, so why not? It's not like the Reign are deep right now with ECHL and PTO players in their line up due to all the injuries. It's going to be delayed some as he does have an American passport (dual citizenship) but it's expired, so he's working on getting that straightened out. He turns 20 near the beginning of next season and is already penciled in on the Reign. It's time to start getting acclimated to playing in North America.

I'm just worried about the lack of development from Kings forwards in Ontario under the Blake regime, in particular players who started very young in Ontario, it has just lagged pretty far behind other teams with one common theme having very young forwards in the AHL as opposed to other leagues. He is a bigger kid and yes he is a post 9/15 birthday so he is a bit older than most kids in his draft, but he will still only be at the 19/20 birthday when the season starts. I hope things work out, but based on past results I'd still have preferred another year in SM-Liiga to let his offensive game hopefully grow some more rather than the continued push to have young players "get into the system" asap.

 

[kings11]

I'm just worried about the lack of development from Kings forwards in Ontario under the Blake regime, in particular players who started very young in Ontario, it has just lagged pretty far behind other teams with one common theme having very young forwards in the AHL as opposed to other leagues. He is a bigger kid and yes he is a post 9/15 birthday so he is a bit older than most kids in his draft, but he will still only be at the 19/20 birthday when the season starts. I hope things work out, but based on past results I'd still have preferred another year in SM-Liiga to let his offensive game hopefully grow some more rather than the continued push to have young players "get into the system" asap.

I had these worries too but it seems that as soon as Wrobo left, the staff started playing the kids together and getting better results from them… I’m grasping at straws obviously but maybe Wrobo’s system just wasn’t working as it was prioritizing guys like Frk and Tynan over Turcotte, Madden, Fagemo and others

 

[regulate]

I had these worries too but it seems that as soon as Wrobo left, the staff started playing the kids together and getting better results from them… I’m grasping at straws obviously but maybe Wrobo’s system just wasn’t working as it was prioritizing guys like Frk and Tynan over Turcotte, Madden, Fagemo and others

The current Reign staff does the same thing. Tynan and Frk are on the #1 line and #1 PP. Nothing has really changed.

 

[kings11]

The current Reign staff does the same thing. Tynan and Frk are on the #1 line and #1 PP. Nothing has really changed.

Something must be different though..
look at how all the kids started playing better as the season worn on..

Ha! I think I just answered my own question..
maybe it was getting that NHL cup of coffee that help them in Ontario.. everyone that’s gone to LA and return to the O have been much improved

 

[Schmooley]

I'm just worried about the lack of development from Kings forwards in Ontario under the Blake regime, in particular players who started very young in Ontario, it has just lagged pretty far behind other teams with one common theme having very young forwards in the AHL as opposed to other leagues. He is a bigger kid and yes he is a post 9/15 birthday so he is a bit older than most kids in his draft, but he will still only be at the 19/20 birthday when the season starts. I hope things work out, but based on past results I'd still have preferred another year in SM-Liiga to let his offensive game hopefully grow some more rather than the continued push to have young players "get into the system" asap.

Im thinking since Blake ran the Reign at one point he maybe places more emphasis on the AHL than other gms. Seems like both he and the coaching staff would rather have a player go to the AHL, learn the system, and when called up integrate into the role they are given without TMac having to go out of his way to teach a player where he should be positionally and without having to explain expectations.
I think it works for bottom sixers, dmen, and role players but when they have high end talent they might need to consider nurturing it a different way.

 

[Herby]

Dillman did hint in her recent mailbag column that Wroblewski not returning may have started out as a personal issue he had to take care of but that the Kings may have wanted to move on as well. She didn’t go into much detail but I always figured part of the Wroblewski appeal was trying to salvage Turcotte after the poor D+1 season at Wisconsin since he was his coach in Plymouth and Turcotte was at the time the Kings highest drafted player under Blake. I think maybe some of the shine came off with how bad the Reign were last year as well as the lack of progression and NHL readiness from QB and Turcotte to be decent NHL’ers this year.

Might be wrong, but it’s possible. Either way hopefully the forward development in Ontario can begin to catch up to the defenseman.

 

[redcard]

I'm just worried about the lack of development from Kings forwards in Ontario under the Blake regime, in particular players who started very young in Ontario, it has just lagged pretty far behind other teams with one common theme having very young forwards in the AHL as opposed to other leagues. He is a bigger kid and yes he is a post 9/15 birthday so he is a bit older than most kids in his draft, but he will still only be at the 19/20 birthday when the season starts. I hope things work out, but based on past results I'd still have preferred another year in SM-Liiga to let his offensive game hopefully grow some more rather than the continued push to have young players "get into the system" asap.

Honest question, what reason do we have to believe that JYP would be any better at developing Helenius? I know absolutely nothing about their staff, facilities, programs, etc. but its probably safe to assume they're not nearly as well funded. I did take a quick look at their top 10 or so scorers every year for the last decade or so and I'm not recognizing any players that went on to be NHLers outside a couple defenseman.

 

[Herby]

Honest question, what reason do we have to believe that JYP would be any better at developing Helenius? I know absolutely nothing about their staff, facilities, programs, etc. but its probably safe to assume they're not nearly as well funded. I did take a quick look at their top 10 or so scorers every year for the last decade or so and I'm not recognizing any players that went on to be NHLers outside a couple defenseman.

It’s mostly the results in Ontario up to now have been pretty meh for forwards. Byfield was simply not ready to step into the NHL after a season there, Turcotte is still not ready after two seasons there as a high pick. Kempe is just now this season emerging, Kupari (with apologies to last night) had mostly struggled in the NHL as a moderately high pick, same with Gabe. JAD made the NHL out of junior at 19 and his growth has been so poor he can’t crack an injury riddled team 3 years later after 100+ AHL games. The only one who we can say came out of Ontario ready to be a good NHL’er was Kaliyev. I know, different situations and different types of players but it just seems that based on the results of having younger forwards there vs the option to let a player play one more year and get better with the team and league he is currently in that in most cases that is the better path.

I know most people on this board are big proponents of getting players to the AHL asap. And I fall into the minority. Everyone wanted Turcotte there, Kupari there, and Byfield there, but it just seems tough to be excited about getting forwards there at such a young age.

If the Kings project him as just a big bottom six guy with little offensive upside I don’t hate it as much, I am not anti-AHL for all prospects, as someone said above me, it’s a fine place for forwards ages 20-23 with secondary or depth upside to develop, but I thought the hope was that maybe he had a bit of offensive upside that could maybe eventually shine through, does that have a chance to happen in Ontario at 19 (if he comes over now) and into next season at 19/20?

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm just worried about the lack of development from Kings forwards in Ontario under the Blake regime, in particular players who started very young in Ontario, it has just lagged pretty far behind other teams with one common theme having very young forwards in the AHL as opposed to other leagues. He is a bigger kid and yes he is a post 9/15 birthday so he is a bit older than most kids in his draft, but he will still only be at the 19/20 birthday when the season starts. I hope things work out, but based on past results I'd still have preferred another year in SM-Liiga to let his offensive game hopefully grow some more rather than the continued push to have young players "get into the system" asap.

I've been beating the development drum for a very long time. Trust me, I understand the concern.

I just don't think the concern is as dire or applicable for Helenius, who is essentially slated to be a bottom six/Handzus-upside type of forward in general.

 

[redcard]

It’s mostly the results in Ontario up to now have been pretty meh for forwards. Byfield was simply not ready to step into the NHL after a season there, Turcotte is still not ready after two seasons there as a high pick. Kempe is just now this season emerging, Kupari (with apologies to last night) had mostly struggled in the NHL as a moderately high pick, same with Gabe. JAD made the NHL out of junior at 19 and his growth has been so poor he can’t crack an injury riddled team 3 years later after 100+ AHL games. The only one who we can say came out of Ontario ready to be a good NHL’er was Kaliyev. I know, different situations and different types of players but it just seems that based on the results of having younger forwards there vs the option to let a player play one more year and get better with the team and league he is currently in that in most cases that is the better path.

I know most people on this board are big proponents of getting players to the AHL asap. And I fall into the minority. Everyone wanted Turcotte there, Kupari there, and Byfield there, but it just seems tough to be excited about getting forwards there at such a young age.

If the Kings project him as just a big bottom six guy with little offensive upside I don’t hate it as much, I am not anti-AHL for all prospects, as someone said above me, it’s a fine place for forwards ages 20-23 with secondary or depth upside to develop, but I thought the hope was that maybe he had a bit of offensive upside that could maybe eventually shine through, does that have a chance to happen in Ontario at 19 (if he comes over now) and into next season at 19/20?

Whether I agree with it or not, I can understand that point of view.

However, I still don't see anything that suggests keeping him at JYP is any better. What has JYP done with 19 year olds? Again, I know next to nothing about the club but their NHL alumni section of their wikipedia page has 1 forward with 151 NHL games in the '80s and 3 other forwards with a combined 20 NHL games, they do have a pair of quality defensemen alumni in Olli Maata and Sami Vatanen but that's not really relevant.

 

[Herby]

I've been beating the development drum for a very long time. Trust me, I understand the concern.

I just don't think the concern is as dire or applicable for Helenius, who is essentially slated to be a bottom six/Handzus-upside type of forward in general.

I understand this is not a projected highly skilled player, but I also thought he maybe had some offense that could emerge, will that happen "learning the system" in the AHL?

Plus, it just seems that Blake either doesn't think having teenagers in the AHL was a bad idea in the past or he is stubborn and thinks things will be different. I just worry that if we take an NCAA or European player in this years draft that history will repeat itself and we will see another highly valued asset put in poor environments to develop. At this point I hope that we take a CHL player again so that the rules in place prevent Blake from making a mistake. And you know me, I normally love drafting NCAA players.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Whether I agree with it or not, I can understand that point of view.

However, I still don't see anything that suggests keeping him at JYP is any better. What has JYP done with 19 year olds? Again, I know next to nothing about the club but their NHL alumni section of their wikipedia page has 1 forward with 151 NHL games in the '80s and 3 other forwards with a combined 20 NHL games, they do have a pair of quality defensemen alumni in Olli Maata and Sami Vatanen but that's not really relevant.

He’s playing in the top local mens league as a depth player. As a returning player he’s positioned to move up the lineup and play against a higher level of competition.

Coming to the AHL, he’s back to a depth position and having to win a spot in camp. I don’t think JYP vs Craig Johnson is important here when it comes to making a development decision. And if he’s under contract, I would assume his ELC slides, but I’m not sure because he’s European.

 

[regulate]

And if he’s under contract, I would assume his ELC slides, but I’m not sure because he’s European.

It slides because he's not going to play any NHL games this season at 19. When he's 20 next season in the AHL his 3 year ELC contract begins regardless since he's 20 years old. He'll make 750K if he's in the NHL, 80K in the AHL + 92K bonus each year.

 

[redcard]

He’s playing in the top local mens league as a depth player. As a returning player he’s positioned to move up the lineup and play against a higher level of competition.

Coming to the AHL, he’s back to a depth position and having to win a spot in camp. I don’t think JYP vs Craig Johnson is important here when it comes to making a development decision. And if he’s under contract, I would assume his ELC slides, but I’m not sure because he’s European.

But it is important. Just because people don't believe the Kings/Reign are good at developing forwards doesn't automatically mean that prospects would be better off literally anywhere else. What if they're the shittiest development team in SM-Liiga? What if their coach hates playing young guys more than ours? What if their head athletic trainer is an acupuncturist and part time flower salesman?

 

[King'sPawn]

I understand this is not a projected highly skilled player, but I also thought he maybe had some offense that could emerge, will that happen "learning the system" in the AHL?

Plus, it just seems that Blake either doesn't think having teenagers in the AHL was a bad idea in the past or he is stubborn and thinks things will be different. I just worry that if we take an NCAA or European player in this years draft that history will repeat itself and we will see another highly valued asset put in poor environments to develop. At this point I hope that we take a CHL player again so that the rules in place prevent Blake from making a mistake. And you know me, I normally love drafting NCAA players.

I honestly think it's less about him learning the system than it is about allowing him to adapt to a smaller ice surface. He's already been battling against professional, quality players.

He MIGHT get more ice time. He might toil in the bottom-six where he scored 9 points in 48 games (he was the 11th highest scoring forward on the team).

If he stays in Finland, what would be the benefit that he wouldn't get in the AHL?

This is a large player with less upside, but has the maturity to wear a letter on an adult team and whose father was a tough NHLer who can also contribute to him learning to be a professional.

If your concern is more about the fear of mishandling highly skilled players in the A, no disagreement. But one thing that I feel is undeniable is the team's ability to churn out professional players who can find a role in the bottom-6.

Not that Helenius is a can't-miss prospect. I just think, on a case-by-case basis, Helenius benefits more in the AHL than Liiga, if he wants to have a better chance for the NHL.

 

[kilowatt]

I honestly think it's less about him learning the system than it is about allowing him to adapt to a smaller ice surface. He's already been battling against professional, quality players.

He MIGHT get more ice time. He might toil in the bottom-six where he scored 9 points in 48 games (he was the 11th highest scoring forward on the team).

If he stays in Finland, what would be the benefit that he wouldn't get in the AHL?

This is a large player with less upside, but has the maturity to wear a letter on an adult team and whose father was a tough NHLer who can also contribute to him learning to be a professional.

If your concern is more about the fear of mishandling highly skilled players in the A, no disagreement. But one thing that I feel is undeniable is the team's ability to churn out professional players who can find a role in the bottom-6.

Not that Helenius is a can't-miss prospect. I just think, on a case-by-case basis, Helenius benefits more in the AHL than Liiga, if he wants to have a better chance for the NHL.

I agree here — this is a case where I think AHL will help him improve his game. Yes, he's young, but he's huge. I don't think anyone's penciling him in on the top line, so learning a bottom six type of role here will be a huge win for us.

 

[apocalypse]

This kid looks to be a beast. Can't wait to see him tear it up in a Kings sweater.

 

[ru4reals]

So a FORWARD from Europe coming over to play in the A, with this organizations development team.....can't wait to see him in 5 years.

 

[Fishhead]

So a FORWARD from Europe coming over to play in the A, with this organizations development team.....can't wait to see him in 5 years.

It ended up working with Kempe, so we will see. Different type of player, I can't remember too many big Europeans that we've drafted for a while.

 

[King'sPawn]

It ended up working with Kempe, so we will see. Different type of player, I can't remember too many big Europeans that we've drafted for a while.

Depends on what is considered "big". Andre Lee was 2019 and Sodergran was 2018.