Ontario Reign 20-21 Part III

[yankeeking]

Hate to throw another name in there but kupari is pretty close to ready for nhl time also

 

[Fishhead]

Frk paired with those 2 might be the slowest line in the league. They will need an AI/Moore/Turcotte on the line to drive play, create space, cause turnovers.

Yeah there is that.

But then again, Andersson isn't substantially slower than Kempe and Frk-Vilardi-Kempe were excellent last year. With Vilardi's vision he just needs a top shooter and that's what Frk is. He would be temporary in any case, I think Arty would be ideal to try on Gabe's wing.

 

[BringTheReign]

Hate to throw another name in there but kupari is pretty close to ready for nhl time also

I was lucky enough to see his first NHL goal on Saturday, and I agree. I hope as he gets more comfortable at the NHL level we'll see some of the neutral zone wizardry he's displayed in Ontario.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It's going to be interesting to see what the Kings do with all these young natural centers. Kopitar is still under contract for 3 years and figures to be a lock for 1C or 2C for all three years. Byfield looks to be locked in at 2C (maybe he's 1C by end of year 3) for the same time-frame. JAD did kind of hit a bit of a wall towards the end of the season, but he is everything you want in a 3C.

The path to an NHL roster spot for guys like Kupari, Turcotte, Thomas and Madden could be how well they can play the wing at the next level, could even include Valardi in this group. The Kings situation on the wing is basically Alex Iafallo wearing the Riddler's suit. Lots of opportunity, even if they do bring in a FA top-6.

Rangers fan coming in peace. YOU--> lots of young centers. US---> no young centers, but more young D than we can ever use with the big club. We can all play nice and swap stuff.

 

[Fishhead]

Rangers fan coming in peace. YOU--> lots of young centers. US---> no young centers, but more young D than we can ever use with the big club. We can all play nice and swap stuff.

They seem to make good partners for sure. I could definitely see some interest in Robertson and Schneider from the Kings side, although the latter might be difficult to pry away.

 

[patnyrnyg]

They seem to make good partners for sure. I could definitely see some interest in Robertson and Schneider from the Kings side, although the latter might be difficult to pry away.

Robertson, Schneider. Then Jones and Reunanen are more offensive minded. It would never happen, but 2 of your C's for one of Robertson/Schneider and 1 of Jones/Reunanen.

 

[Fishhead]

Robertson, Schneider. Then Jones and Reunanen are more offensive minded. It would never happen, but 2 of your C's for one of Robertson/Schneider and 1 of Jones/Reunanen.

I would guess the two centers most likely to move right now would be Akil Thomas or Rasmus Kupari. I know a lot are high on both, but it’s the same logjam situation that the Rangers have on their blueline. Kopitar will be around a bit, Byfield looked fantastic, Vilardi is starting to solidify his spot, Anderson-Dolan looks like a perfect 4C, and then Turcotte is waiting in the wings.

I think there is definitely a deal to be explored this offseason, it makes a lot of sense. Both sets of prospects have similar pedigrees, draft positions, etc. Different conferences too so you don’t have to worry so much about it coming back to bite you in the ass.

 

[redcard]

I'm not too keen on trading any of the prospects, even if there is a log jam. Generally speaking, prospects lose trade value until they become established NHL players at which point they earn that value back it back. Kupari and Thomas both had great seasons, but trading them now would still feel like selling low.

Our issue isn't that we won't have spots for all of them, its that we can't have them all breaking in at the same time. As guys like Vilardi, JAD, Grundstrom, Andersson continue to get playing time and experience it allows us to gradually drop Lizotte, Wagner, Lemieux, etc just like we saw with Luff, Amadio, and Carter.

Further down the line, as the young guys get more gps they'll start making the next group of vets expendable (Athanasiou, Kempe, Iafallo, Moore, Brown) and there's some real trade value in that group, more than enough to fill a defensive hole.

 

[Fishhead]

I'm not too keen on trading any of the prospects, even if there is a log jam. Generally speaking, prospects lose trade value until they become established NHL players at which point they earn that value back it back. Kupari and Thomas both had great seasons, but trading them now would still feel like selling low.

Our issue isn't that we won't have spots for all of them, its that we can't have them all breaking in at the same time. As guys like Vilardi, JAD, Grundstrom, Andersson continue to get playing time and experience it allows us to gradually drop Lizotte, Wagner, Lemieux, etc just like we saw with Luff, Amadio, and Carter.

Further down the line, as the young guys get more gps they'll start making the next group of vets expendable (Athanasiou, Kempe, Iafallo, Moore, Brown) and there's some real trade value in that group, more than enough to fill a defensive hole.

All very true.

I'm not sure how long a guy like Kupari can be kept down though, certainly not several years. Guys who will be taking the place of Kempe, Iafallo, and Moore haven't been drafted yet. So the big question is do we trade a guy like Kupari - who while good is kind of redundant as we have guys like Kaliyev, Fagemo, Andersson who also are trying to fill a scoring role - for something that is completely lacking in the organization? Schneider has size, is an excellent 2-way guy, and has a serious mean streak. Roberston has a huge frame, is hard to play against, and can put up points. I'm not sure I would make that trade from the NYR side, but if it's offered it's definitely worth a look.

 

[redcard]

All very true.

I'm not sure how long a guy like Kupari can be kept down though, certainly not several years. Guys who will be taking the place of Kempe, Iafallo, and Moore haven't been drafted yet. So the big question is do we trade a guy like Kupari - who while good is kind of redundant as we have guys like Kaliyev, Fagemo, Andersson who also are trying to fill a scoring role - for something that is completely lacking in the organization? Schneider has size, is an excellent 2-way guy, and has a serious mean streak. Roberston has a huge frame, is hard to play against, and can put up points. I'm not sure I would make that trade from the NYR side, but if it's offered it's definitely worth a look.

I don't feel he's redundant, because there's no guarantee they'll all pan out. If they do, well then you've got a young established NHL player to trade rather than just a prospect. We can afford to wait and see how it pans out, if we really need to plug a hole, we've got plenty of draft capital to move around.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't feel he's redundant, because there's no guarantee they'll all pan out. If they do, well then you've got a young established NHL player to trade rather than just a prospect. We can afford to wait and see how it pans out, if we really need to plug a hole, we've got plenty of draft capital to move around.

They most certainly won't all pan out. I guess I just feel that the Kings' track record with developing defensemen is far better than that with forwards, so if we can pick up a D prospect on the same level as a Kupari or Thomas, we will get a better bang for the buck.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I would guess the two centers most likely to move right now would be Akil Thomas or Rasmus Kupari. I know a lot are high on both, but it’s the same logjam situation that the Rangers have on their blueline. Kopitar will be around a bit, Byfield looked fantastic, Vilardi is starting to solidify his spot, Anderson-Dolan looks like a perfect 4C, and then Turcotte is waiting in the wings.

I think there is definitely a deal to be explored this offseason, it makes a lot of sense. Both sets of prospects have similar pedigrees, draft positions, etc. Different conferences too so you don’t have to worry so much about it coming back to bite you in the ass.

Friend and I were talking about it the other day we agreed that this is the reason it will NOT happen as it actually makes too much sense! In all honesty, I do not know much about the Kings centers aside from Byfield, but I am not expecting him to be part of the discussions.

 

[Mats26]

Count me in on having 3 x 10 million dollar players on a non-contending rebuilding team.

 

[Johnny Utah]

IMO Kupari has looked better than Byfield and Kayilev. He is more ready.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Caufield scored his 4th goal in 10 games today.

Hopefully Turcotte comes into camp next season with a chip on his shoulder with seeing his buddies Hughes, Zegras, and Caufield all up thriving in the NHL this season.

 

[Mats26]

Caufield scored his 4th goal in 10 games today.

Hopefully Turcotte comes into camp next season with a chip on his shoulder with seeing his buddies Hughes, Zegras, and Caufield all up thriving in the NHL this season.

That 2019 first round is going to cost some jobs on the Kings if they don't pan out.

 

[Herby]

That 2019 first round is going to cost some jobs on the Kings if they don't pan out.

Half the league missed on Caufield, not just the Kings. Kind of similar to Kopitar in 2005, how does a guy that special fall that far? I mean, I like Cam York, he will be an excellent 2nd pairing d-man for a long time in this league, but it completely blows my mind how he went before Caufield.

The Kings went for more of a safer floor pick and that is fine. Turcotte will be a valuable piece to the Kings as center or LW for a long time. The Kings didn't know they'd have Byfield a year later, that is why it's hard to criticize Blake to much for passing on Caufield.

 

[Statto]

That 2019 first round is going to cost some jobs on the Kings if they don't pan out.

Let’s assess again in 2024/25. Turcotte was pretty much the consensus pick at #5. Yes there was the odd person that threw out other names but most of the ‘experts’ had Turcotte there. His development has been fine, he’s just a touch behind due to injuries. It way too early to assess; so what is Caufield has 4+1 in 10 games, Vilardi had 3+4 in the same scenario coming off missing a huge amount of hockey. It’s about the long term, not a short spell in a defensively poor division. I’m not saying Caufield isn’t great, just that it’s too early to start saying Turcotte was the wrong pick.

 

[Statto]

IF I moved anyone to get a LHD it would be Kupari, for a couple of reasons. Kupari is clear ready so I think we’d get more value in any deal. I’m also not sure where he fits long term whereas Thomas is a guys that can move up and down the lineup, plays in all positions and can even play D (I’m not suggesting we use him on D) which shows his hockey IQ is great. Think a more skilled Trevor Lewis.

 

[Mats26]

Let’s assess again in 2024/25. Turcotte was pretty much the consensus pick at #5. Yes there was the odd person that threw out other names but most of the ‘experts’ had Turcotte there. His development has been fine, he’s just a touch behind due to injuries. It way too early to assess; so what is Caufield has 4+1 in 10 games, Vilardi had 3+4 in the same scenario coming off missing a huge amount of hockey. It’s about the long term, not a short spell in a defensively poor division. I’m not saying Caufield isn’t great, just that it’s too early to start saying Turcotte was the wrong pick.

Never said anything about Caufield. I said if the 2019 first round picks don't turn out. That was a deep draft, Turcotte and Bjornfot need to pan out and reach their potential to make this rebuild possible. Byfield was gifted to us from a lottery win but that shouldn't take away from what we expect as first rounders in the 2019 draft class.

 

[Herby]

IF I moved anyone to get a LHD it would be Kupari, for a couple of reasons. Kupari is clear ready so I think we’d get more value in any deal. I’m also not sure where he fits long term whereas Thomas is a guys that can move up and down the lineup, plays in all positions and can even play D (I’m not suggesting we use him on D) which shows his hockey IQ is great. Think a more skilled Trevor Lewis.

I have hopes that Kupari can be more than a skilled bottom six guy. But the issue, and this is obviously the bigger issue with the Kings is they are going to need him (and a few other highly drafted C's) to transition to wingers if they are going to be scoring line players. People seem to think that isn't a big challenge, and for some it isn't, but for others it is. That is my big issue with this rebuild. how do you have so many high picks yet have so little to show on the wing while being 5-6 deep at U-22 centers?

Let’s assess again in 2024/25. Turcotte was pretty much the consensus pick at #5. Yes there was the odd person that threw out other names but most of the ‘experts’ had Turcotte there. His development has been fine, he’s just a touch behind due to injuries. It way too early to assess; so what is Caufield has 4+1 in 10 games, Vilardi had 3+4 in the same scenario coming off missing a huge amount of hockey. It’s about the long term, not a short spell in a defensively poor division. I’m not saying Caufield isn’t great, just that it’s too early to start saying Turcotte was the wrong pick.

I agree with most of this, as I said in my reply to Mats, Turcotte will be a good player for the Kings possibly as early as next year, and Turcotte was for the most part the consensus pick for the Kings there based on the rankings. But on Caufield I think you sell him a bit short, I don't think there is any chance Caufield is not a long-term difference maker for the Habs. Yes he's getting started early in his NHL career, but this is not a flash in the pan, this is a guy who has scored a massive amount goals at every level he has played despite always being one of the youngest players in whatever league he has played, and has now slid pretty seamlessly into that role in the NHL in his D+1.

I wanted CC bad, for one because the Kings have had such issues scoring goals for so long and mostly because a player like that is just not really available to often to draft. You can find a Turcotte, Zegras, Boldy, York type player in the top half of the 1st in just about every draft. Caufield is a rarer commodity, there just aren't that many people who can shoot the puck like him in the league. But I also don't think it should be a negative on the Kings scouting team that they missed on him, or do I think it destroys the Kings rebuild. The Kings also took the wrong player when they took Brown over Getzlaf and Parise and it worked out fine, largely because the Kings were able to fill the alpha forward role two years later with Kopitar, something that is hopefully the case with Byfield.

Although it would have been fun to have Byfield and Caufield, they would have needed to find another "field" to have the "Field of Dreams Line" - I'll see myself out.

Never said anything about Caufield. I said if the 2019 first round picks don't turn out. That was a deep draft, Turcotte and Bjornfot need to pan out and reach their potential to make this rebuild possible. Byfield was gifted to us from a lottery win but that shouldn't take away from what we expect as first rounders in the 2019 draft class.

Bjornfot is already an NHL'er at 19, taken in the later half of the 1st. The Kings may like a do-over with #5 based on some of the potential stars they passed on, but Bjornfot at 22 has been a heck of a pick by the Kings in the immediate and long-term.

And the rebuild doesn't hinge on this draft, the Hawks took Jack Skille over Anze Kopitar in 2005 and five years later began a 3 in 6 years dynasty. Other than landing Doughty, Lombardi's other first round picks from 2006-2010 resulted in a backup goalie, a 3rd/4th liner, a guy who was waived before playing a game for the team, a career minor league d-man, a 2C who only played a handful of games before being traded and a #5 d-man, and the Kings won 10 playoff series and 2 cups between 2012-2014. Bjornfot has already accomplished more than most of those guys and he turned 20 last month. The Kings rebuild is right now more on the shoulders of Byfield than on any of the guys taken 2017-2019. Even if Turcotte is a 2nd line LW or a 3C and Toby is a 4D it wouldn't destroy the rebuild.

 

[driller1]

Half the league missed on Caufield, not just the Kings. Kind of similar to Kopitar in 2005, how does a guy that special fall that far? I mean, I like Cam York, he will be an excellent 2nd pairing d-man for a long time in this league, but it completely blows my mind how he went before Caufield.

The Kings went for more of a safer floor pick and that is fine. Turcotte will be a valuable piece to the Kings as center or LW for a long time. The Kings didn't know they'd have Byfield a year later, that is why it's hard to criticize Blake to much for passing on Caufield.

To me the jury is still out. How will Caufield play when he plays teams outside of Canada, ie, teams that actually play defense. Also, will he be another Johnny Gudreau (great point producer in the regular season, but wilts in the playoffs)? There are also plenty of scouts and know-it-alls who say AK have an equally lethal shot. In my mind, the question is: Turcotte+Bjornfot+Kaliyev vs Caufield+Turcotte+???. I'm not convinced you would draft both Caufield and Kaliyev.

 

[King'sPawn]

That 2019 first round is going to cost some jobs on the Kings if they don't pan out.

Because of one pick? Jobs will be lost because of Caufield, but the other promising picks of Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, etc will just be hand-waved?

 

[kovacro]

Much too early to properly evaluate the 2019 draft. Needs a few more years to marinate.

 

[Herby]

To me the jury is still out. How will Caufield play when he plays teams outside of Canada, ie, teams that actually play defense. Also, will he be another Johnny Gudreau (great point producer in the regular season, but wilts in the playoffs)? There are also plenty of scouts and know-it-alls who say AK have an equally lethal shot. In my mind, the question is: Turcotte+Bjornfot+Kaliyev vs Caufield+Turcotte+???. I'm not convinced you would draft both Caufield and Kaliyev.

Driller,

Respect the hell out of your opinion, but I don't think the analysis is fair. Just because the playoffs start doesn't mean that he is going to lose his shot and more importantly his game sense to get open to release it, which is what it's all about, it's like Tyreek Hill's speed in the NFL. It's just something that jumps out at you, from the second you see him play, heck from the second you see him in warm-up, living in the area I do I've been lucky enough to see a lot of good players play before they reached the NHL, in 20 years I've never seen a college or junior player with his shot, not a single one. I'm not saying the guy is going to win Selke's or play on the PK. But it's also not the 1990's anymore, there is a lot of room out there and that player with room and that shot is going to score, and score a lot, as much as people want to talk intangibles and what people can't do but it's still the object of the game to put pucks in the net.

Teams missed, it happens. NHL GM's are for the most part risk-averse, he's 5'7 and had played in the USHL, Kopitar was from Slovenia, Kaliyev might be older or on the spectrum, Erik Karlsson was 150 lbs. I think in a re-draft he jumps a lot of people (not just Turcotte since people think I pick on him). I think I feel more comfortable going forward taking him over anyone from that draft, even the top 2 guys (who haven't lived up to it) and even Zegras. Maybe I will be wrong, I just don't see how he's not 40+ every year possibly as soon as next year.

The Kaliyev thing is an interesting point, and I like Arty, he's probably my fav Kings prospect and I was one of those people who was pissed the Kings didn't take him at 22. He is our best winger prospect, but I just don't see him at the same type of level as Caufield. I don't know if taking CC means the Kings would have not taken Arty. The Kings had gone C the previous two drafts so it wouldn't have been impossible to try and address the goal-scoring winger issue with two very good ones, one a right shot one a left with 2 of those 3 top 35 picks.