Ontario Reign 20-21 Part III

[ru4reals]

I think the 5-6 year evaluation mostly still hold true.
Just for example, do you take Sergachev over Laine or PLD 2-3 years ago?
Heck, some might take Puljujarvi over Laine at this point.
Guys like Keller and Larkin looked like they were going to be perennial PPG wingers. Hasn't really panned out and they've actually regressed, at least in terms of point production.
And guys like Zacha and Mittelstadt look like they're starting to finding their games.

I think after 2-3 years, we get a better idea of where guys stand overall, especially the top 10~15 picks, but for almost every draft year, we see players' games change for the better or for the worse, even 4,5,6 years after the draft.

Exactly my thoughts. Some players start out great and then just disappear after a few years. Then there's the slow starters who blossoms later. Great ones are great right off the bat, don't need to say their names we all know who they are but those guys are rare. Gotta give these kids time before we know exactly what we have. Laine is a perfect example, who knows where this dudes career is headed. Even guys like Huberdeau, Zibanejad, Couturier, and Carlson took 3 to 5 years to be who they are today. Yes some of our prospects look like they might not be the player we want them to be right off the bat, but I'm going to wait and see how everything unfolds before really making a sound judgment. I understand the cause for concerns early on, but I'm going to be patient especially with a guy like Turcotte.

 

[Herby]

It's very telling that you're comfortable with such a small sample size for Caulfield or Zegras but not, say, 21 points in the last 25 games for Turcotte, almost leading the Reign despite a zippo for his first few games.

I think we have to see what he can do in the NHL before we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Almost like someone who accuses someone of being a "hater" and a "stat watcher" but then immediately starts bringing up stats when it gets better? And yes it did get better, I don't dispute. If he's going to be a scoring line player he has to score consistently, period. And it's not "stat watching" to say that. I don't play the excuse or context game as you know,

Caufield just had one of the most dominant college seasons for a player his age in the history of college hockey, had a brief cup of coffee in the AHL where he was clearly playing in a league he didn't belong in and has 4 goals in his first 10 NHL games. I know the favorite thing on this board is to push Caufield's demise to just on the other side of the mountain. "I don't want the Kings taking a midget #5OA" then he was going to get "eaten alive in college", then it was "lets see how he does in the AHL against men" now it's "to soon to judge" or the new flavor of the week with his NHL success, "look at the division he's in" And funny because it largely comes from the same people who looked like they swallowed a bottle of viagra watching Byfield play his first NHL game (and rightfully so, Byfield was fantastic in his first game). I just don't get it, why so many don't see what is right before them with this kid. If he were a King this board would be talking about where his future statue will be but instead we get the lame excuses such as the ones I described. Why?

Zegras was significantly better in the AHL, struggled in his first call-up, went back to the AHL where again like Caufield he was in a league where he didn't belong and returned to the NHL and finished strong. Yes, you can bring up Turcotte's end of the season, and I can bring up TZ's. Zegras is 19 years old and finished the year with 8 points in his final 9 games after his call-up, in the NHL, you know the best league in the world?

Yes, Turcotte finished the year strong with a great final week especially with 6 in 3 games. He also had a strong run offensively earlier in the year with a 1+8 in 10 games after a poor start (scoreless in first 7), then after the earlier run he stopped scoring again with 0+5 in 13 games before the final strong week of 3+3 in his final 3. Seems like a player that has a very inconsistent and maybe not a natural offensive game? And no it's not ridiculous to judge a player projected to be an offensive player largely off of his offensive production, you seem to like to selectively do it when it's going well then say it's "stat watching" when its not going well. I'm consistent with my views on that, but also do acknowledge Turcotte has some other intangibles that mean he is going to be valuable to the Kings regardless. Something the other discussed players simply do not have. If Zegras and Caufield stopped scoring they wouldn't hold a candle to Turcotte as all-around players. But man I think you really really understate how much of a difference there is offensively between the 3 players right now. It's frankly not even close.

Zegras and Turcotte played in the same league, against the same few teams.

They both had 21 total points. Turcotte in 31 games, Zegras in 17.

Zegras had points in 12 of his 17 games, including four multi-point games
Turcotte had points in 15 of his 31 games, including 5 multi-point games

Zegras scored goals in 8 of his 17 games, with two games scoring twice
Turcotte scored goals in 4 of his 31 games, with a hat trick.

I just think you really sell these two guys short, everything they have done since being drafted, including NHL production just screams all-star and offensive stars. I think the Caufield thing is really dishonest because you cry sample size when he's producing in the best league in the world right out of college but had he come up and done nothing in 10 games you would be calling him overhyped or saying "He's producing like Kyle Clifford" like you did for 18 year old Dach. Which wouldn't really be unfair in itself because if Caufield isn't scoring he's useless, he's the easiest prospect to ever evaluate. But come on man, give the guy his props this has been an absolutely unbelievable D+2 year as a 19/20 year old. I mean, that season he had for the Badgers, the AHL games where he looked out of place and now the 4G in 10 games in the NHL during a playoff race. Is it maybe just maybe time to stop with the doubting and just acknowledge that there is a very good chance that this kid is to quote TT "special"? Btw the whole quote was...

"He’s special, man. For real. He’s got that it factor. I’ve only seen it in a few guys in the league. He’s got it"

Why would a 9 year NHL veteran say that about a rookie who isn't old enough to buy a beer in the United States? Could it be possible that maybe just maybe he has seen stuff in games and practice that would warrant him saying CC does things hes only seen a few guys do?

I don't even think I was being critical, I went back and looked at my posts and I think it was complimentary with his all-around game but also acknowledging that the Kings probably passed up on a couple of future bigtime scorers in that draft but specifically going out of my way to say that they don't deserve any blame for it.

I asked those questions in the post you replied to, genuinely curious about your answer.

Do you think his play warrants being considered on the same caliber as the two guys being discussed in this thread? Would you turn down Zegras or Caufield straight up? Is saying he's a 1st line long shot underestimating?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Almost like someone who accuses someone of being a "hater" and a "stat watcher" but then immediately starts bringing up stats when it gets better? And yes it did get better, I don't dispute. If he's going to be a scoring line player he has to score consistently, period. And it's not "stat watching" to say that. I don't play the excuse or context game as you know,

Caufield just had one of the most dominant college seasons for a player his age in the history of college hockey, had a brief cup of coffee in the AHL where he was clearly playing in a league he didn't belong in and has 4 goals in his first 10 NHL games. I know the favorite thing on this board is to push Caufield's demise to just on the other side of the mountain. "I don't want the Kings taking a midget #5OA" then he was going to get "eaten alive in college", then it was "lets see how he does in the AHL against men" now it's "to soon to judge" or the new flavor of the week with his NHL success, "look at the division he's in" And funny because it largely comes from the same people who looked like they swallowed a bottle of viagra watching Byfield play his first NHL game (and rightfully so, Byfield was fantastic in his first game). I just don't get it, why so many don't see what is right before them with this kid. If he were a King this board would be talking about where his future statue will be but instead we get the lame excuses such as the ones I described. Why?

Zegras was significantly better in the AHL, struggled in his first call-up, went back to the AHL where again like Caufield he was in a league where he didn't belong and returned to the NHL and finished strong. Yes, you can bring up Turcotte's end of the season, and I can bring up TZ's. Zegras is 19 years old and finished the year with 8 points in his final 9 games after his call-up, in the NHL, you know the best league in the world?

Yes, Turcotte finished the year strong with a great final week especially with 6 in 3 games. He also had a strong run offensively earlier in the year with a 1+8 in 10 games after a poor start (scoreless in first 7), then after the earlier run he stopped scoring again with 0+5 in 13 games before the final strong week of 3+3 in his final 3. Seems like a player that has a very inconsistent and maybe not a natural offensive game? And no it's not ridiculous to judge a player projected to be an offensive player largely off of his offensive production, you seem to like to selectively do it when it's going well then say it's "stat watching" when its not going well. I'm consistent with my views on that, but also do acknowledge Turcotte has some other intangibles that mean he is going to be valuable to the Kings regardless. Something the other discussed players simply do not have. If Zegras and Caufield stopped scoring they wouldn't hold a candle to Turcotte as all-around players. But man I think you really really understate how much of a difference there is offensively between the 3 players right now. It's frankly not even close.

Zegras and Turcotte played in the same league, against the same few teams.

They both had 21 total points. Turcotte in 31 games, Zegras in 17.

Zegras had points in 12 of his 17 games, including four multi-point games
Turcotte had points in 15 of his 31 games, including 5 multi-point games

Zegras scored goals in 8 of his 17 games, with two games scoring twice
Turcotte scored goals in 4 of his 31 games, with a hat trick.

I just think you really sell these two guys short, everything they have done since being drafted, including NHL production just screams all-star and offensive stars. I think the Caufield thing is really dishonest because you cry sample size when he's producing in the best league in the world right out of college but had he come up and done nothing in 10 games you would be calling him overhyped or saying "He's producing like Kyle Clifford" like you did for 18 year old Dach. Which wouldn't really be unfair in itself because if Caufield isn't scoring he's useless, he's the easiest prospect to ever evaluate. But come on man, give the guy his props this has been an absolutely unbelievable D+2 year as a 19/20 year old. I mean, that season he had for the Badgers, the AHL games where he looked out of place and now the 4G in 10 games in the NHL during a playoff race. Is it maybe just maybe time to stop with the doubting and just acknowledge that there is a very good chance that this kid is to quote TT "special"? Btw the whole quote was...

"He’s special, man. For real. He’s got that it factor. I’ve only seen it in a few guys in the league. He’s got it"

Why would a 9 year NHL veteran say that about a rookie who isn't old enough to buy a beer in the United States? Could it be possible that maybe just maybe he has seen stuff in games and practice that would warrant him saying CC does things hes only seen a few guys do?

I don't even think I was being critical, I went back and looked at my posts and I think it was complimentary with his all-around game but also acknowledging that the Kings probably passed up on a couple of future bigtime scorers in that draft but specifically going out of my way to say that they don't deserve any blame for it.

I asked those questions in the post you replied to, genuinely curious about your answer.

Do you think his play warrants being considered on the same caliber as the two guys being discussed in this thread? Would you turn down Zegras or Caufield straight up? Is saying he's a 1st line long shot underestimating?

Wow, that was a hell of a rant considering my only point was we have to see Turcotte in the NHL at this point before turfing him. Who the f*** are you talking to? When did I tee off on Caufield?

Yeah, I would absolutely turn down Turcotte for Zegras or Caufield straight up right this moment.

I'm not sure where all the Caufield venom came from, I must have missed something somewhere, it certainly wasn't me, unless you saw the three posts in a row where a few of us just like needling Habs fans over it. I've never had anything but reverence for his ability to score, I always remember the Wheeler (Pronman?) article where every time he criticizes him he says, knowingly, "but still...that's just a LOT of goals." The guy is a natural scorer, not a one trick pony. Like Kaliyev, it's not like he's just walking in open wristers, he goes to the hard areas, spins off checks, can shoot forehand or backhand, wrist, snap, slap. Personally, like kaliyev, he needs a good team around him that can transport the puck because he's going to be doing next to nothing but existing in the d and neutral zones--but the guy is absolutely lethal blue line in.

If you saw "let's see how he does at the next level" as an insult of some sort, that's on you. That gets said about literally every prospect. And I'm currently saying that about Turcotte as you've moved from complaining about his production to apparently complaining that the others are in the NHL before him. That's the mark of someone who cares more about 'being right' than wanting Turcotte to succeed.

 

[tbrown33]

I dont recall much anyone on this board dumping on Caufield? I remember wishing we could grab both him and Turc somehow.

I think theyre both gonna be very good NHL players.

 

[lumbergh]

No offense to anyone, but I just don't bother with the comparisons after the fact. All I care is that Turcotte develops well and becomes a good player for the Kings. If a few players drafted afterwards also make it to the NHL and do well, great for them. All this shoulda, woulda, coulda means jack until the next draft.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I dont recall much anyone on this board dumping on Caufield? I remember wishing we could grab both him and Turc somehow.

I think theyre both gonna be very good NHL players.

Yeah, in fact after not trading up for CC, I recall that's why more than a few of us were initially grumpy about the Bjornfot pick, how could you pick a left-handed dman with Kaliyev, Bobby Brink, Tomasino, et. al. still on the board? We wanted scoring.

I don't see anyone being upset about Caufield, he's an easy dude to be happy for, fighting expectations at every level, USA kid, Turc's teammate, oh, and in another conference. The only times we've told people to pipe down are when Habs fans call him a surefire #1 in a redraft

Same goes for Zegras, not sure I've seen anyone this happy for a Ducks prospect ever. I think we're mistaking critique for haterade.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yeah, in fact after not trading up for CC, I recall that's why more than a few of us were initially grumpy about the Bjornfot pick, how could you pick a left-handed dman with Kaliyev, Bobby Brink, Tomasino, et. al. still on the board? We wanted scoring.

I don't see anyone being upset about Caufield, he's an easy dude to be happy for, fighting expectations at every level, USA kid, Turc's teammate, oh, and in another conference. The only times we've told people to pipe down are when Habs fans call him a surefire #1 in a redraft

Same goes for Zegras, not sure I've seen anyone this happy for a Ducks prospect ever. I think we're mistaking critique for haterade.

I've been more critical of Caufield and Zegras than most, but I wouldn't say I "hate" them.

I do still see Caufield as a complementary scorer and not a play driver - a la Mike Cammalleri. Him being anointed as a franchise's savior gets grating, but that's not his fault.

Zegras is a style over substance player. Fun to watch. Extremely skilled and will put up points. But he'll need to be a top consistent scorer every season, and I don't know if he can deliver to justify his style of play.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

In today's

I've been more critical of Caufield and Zegras than most, but I wouldn't say I "hate" them.

I do still see Caufield as a complementary scorer and not a play driver - a la Mike Cammalleri. Him being anointed as a franchise's savior gets grating, but that's not his fault.

Zegras is a style over substance player. Fun to watch. Extremely skilled and will put up points. But he'll need to be a top consistent scorer every season, and I don't know if he can deliver to justify his style of play.

I don't think you have to be a carrier in today's NHL. As long as you have speed and a shot you can carry will "carry".

 

[ru4reals]

Man eff all prospects not LA Kings. There I said it. Go Kings Go!!! But seriously though that 2019 draft might be special in the not too distant future. I know a long ways to go but many have already had a few games in the big leagues and have shown they belong, and a few are just on the cusp of being really good. Dayum.

1

5

Los Angeles

Alex Turcotte

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

22

Los Angeles

Tobias Bjornfot

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2

33

Los Angeles

Arthur Kaliyev

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

1

New Jersey

Jack Hughes

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

2

NY Rangers

Kaapo Kakko

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

3

Chicago

Kirby Dach

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

4

Colorado

Bowen Byram

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

6

Detroit

Moritz Seider

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

7

Buffalo

Dylan Cozens

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

9

Anaheim

Trevor Zegras

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

11

Arizona

Victor Soderstrom

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

13

Florida

Spencer Knight

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

15

Montreal

Cole Caufield

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

16

Colorado

Alex Newhook

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

17

Vegas

Peyton Krebs

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

20

Winnipeg

Ville Heinola

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

24

Nashville

Philip Tomasino

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

25

Washington

Connor McMichael

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1

27

Tampa Bay

Nolan Foote

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2

32

Ottawa

Shane Pinto

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2

40

Vancouver

Nils Hoglander

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[King'sPawn]

In today's


I don't think you have to be a carrier in today's NHL. As long as you have speed and a shot you can carry will "carry".

It's not necessarily a "carrier." It's more that Caufield is dependent on others to get pucks loose for him.

I agree that a good enough skater can do a lot with the puck. But if he is dependent on another player to do some of the dirty work, and if he's not a shutdown type defensively, he becomes a very niche player.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I wonder if Hoven is hinting at Madden being back tonight…?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I wonder if Hoven is hinting at Madden being back tonight…?

He kinda casually dropped that hint the other day which sorta surprised me since its' a bit of a bombshell, that Madden might be back tonight.

 

[bland]

I've been more critical of Caufield and Zegras than most, but I wouldn't say I "hate" them.

I do still see Caufield as a complementary scorer and not a play driver - a la Mike Cammalleri. Him being anointed as a franchise's savior gets grating, but that's not his fault.

Zegras is a style over substance player. Fun to watch. Extremely skilled and will put up points. But he'll need to be a top consistent scorer every season, and I don't know if he can deliver to justify his style of play.

Every time I see Zegras I think Mike Ribeiro.

Couldn't care less that he is a Duck, I have never had any animosity towards Anaheim. But I really can't stand Zegras' brand of hockey. Its pissed me off for years and I am very happy he is not a King.

 

[LAKings88]

Every time I see Zegras I think Mike Ribeiro.

Couldn't care less that he is a Duck, I have never had any animosity towards Anaheim. But I really can't stand Zegras' brand of hockey. Its pissed me off for years and I am very happy he is not a King.

I always think of him.

 

[Choralone]

View attachment 433982
I always think of him.

Sorry, but why do you think Zegras looks like that picture of Tyler Toffoli?

 

[SFKingshomer]

Every time I see Zegras I think Mike Ribeiro.

Couldn't care less that he is a Duck, I have never had any animosity towards Anaheim. But I really can't stand Zegras' brand of hockey. Its pissed me off for years and I am very happy he is not a King.

I thought Savard initially and have been thinking Ribeiro lately. I wanted the Kings to draft him based on skill level but he could tone down the showboating at times.

 

[ru4reals]

Great to see Tyler Madden back on the ice. It's been a looong time.

 

[ru4reals]

Apparently no Play by play and replays. LOL.

 

[ru4reals]

Turcotte on the draw on the powerplay and seems to trip over a leg or stick and seemed like he got hurt. Now he's heading off ice. Sheesh. Skating on his own but my goodness hope it's not serious again.

 

[Nickster]

It's about 30 seconds behind, but I was able to pause AHLTV to sync with the away audio here: Fox Sports 1450 | iHeartRadio

 

[ru4reals]

Doesn't look like Turcotte is out in the second period. Dayum.

 

[cyclones22]

Fagemo would not be denied on the PK.

 

[ru4reals]

Fagemo would not be denied on the PK.

Yeah that sequence was pretty nice. Got stopped on the first one then got the puck back and pretty much sniped it from a pretty bad angle.

 

[tbrown33]

Turcotte looks like he came back? Honestly it is hard to tell. I am literally squinting.

 

[ru4reals]

LOL Kaliyev with a goal pretty much throwing it at the net from the side boards.