im fine with neutral reffing i just dont see how the day before a game it comes up
Olympic Hockey Refereeing: Part II (mod warning post #190)
- Thread starter YWGinYYZ
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im fine with neutral reffing i just dont see how the day before a game it comes up
so why not have a 50/50 drawing to see if there is someone in the stands who wants to ref? he will have the exact same experience riffing the best players in the world as any of those hack iihf refs.
Its embarrassing trying to rationalize a loss by invoking grand conspiracies post facto. Its even worse to do this proactively.
if Sweden beats us tomorrow, you would need to have a blatant call of favoritism for me to say peep. The worst I'll say is congratulations Sweden.
Well yeah. I agree in a perfect world the refs are neutral. My issue in this thread has been with people saying that because the refs are Canadian we are trying to cheat and fix the game because it's simply not the case.
Me neither but i dont like it and i would be just as furious if it was 3 sweds to ref this game...
Was because the canadians called us cry babys but lets forget about that and look forward
?
Starbuds
You like muscles?
- Mar 28, 2010
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Canada has had a Canadian ref in each of their games this tournament. They have also had a Canadian linesman in each of their games except for one. Canada has never has less penalty minutes than their opponents in any of the games, despite dominating time of possession, shots, and every other metric that would point to drawing penalties. Where is the bias?
SurMartin
Registered User
Exactly, it's just unnecessary. People will always find a way to complain, it's just in our nature.
I think it will be a great game tomorrow with good reffing. We can't change anything so if that worst case scenerio occurs and there's a ****storm I guess they will learn from that and hopefully make it impossible next time around.
ChocolateLeclaire
Registered User
So Peter Forsberg is upset but the guys playing the game for Sweden are happy with the referee selection.
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ol...al-game---expletive--joke-161204140.html?vp=1
Part of me thinks Forsberg is playing a strong mental game. Now the Canadian refs will think extra hard before calling anything on Sweden. Well-played Forsberg...well played...
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ol...al-game---expletive--joke-161204140.html?vp=1
Part of me thinks Forsberg is playing a strong mental game. Now the Canadian refs will think extra hard before calling anything on Sweden. Well-played Forsberg...well played...
The Kingslayer
Registered User
The refs being from Canada is not that big of a deal.
The refs being from the NHL is the big deal. Reffing in the NHL is pathetic at best. All we need is one referee calling the game inconsistently and then having the main story after the game being about a call that they made or did not make.
The refs being from the NHL is the big deal. Reffing in the NHL is pathetic at best. All we need is one referee calling the game inconsistently and then having the main story after the game being about a call that they made or did not make.
Butcher
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- Dec 7, 2013
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I understand the concept of avoiding any perceived perception of bias, but would not put that in the way of having the best referees in the game. I am fine with who the IIHF has chosen (as apparently are both of the teams playing in the game), but can see that for some the optics of having a couple of American NHL refs would look better. As was noted in the original thread, there seems to be a cultural difference here. I haven't followed or cared about the nationality of the refs in any of the games, while for the European posters this seems to be a bigger deal. I don't recall any Americans making a big deal of having Canadian refs in the finals in 2010 either.
As far as bias goes, and I know another poster touched on it but it seems they were ignored, most of the match fixing or point shaving scandals I am aware of have been for cash. Not only are NHL refs the best in the business, but they make a very good living and should be less susceptible to that sort of thing than others. With the resumes of the selected refs I expect they are all in the upper range of NHL salaries (somewhere around the $200k mark), and any signs of partiality would jeopardise thier current employment.
As far as Olympic scandals go, most of the issues in judging/refereeing have come when those in question are beholden to thier national federation, which NHL referees are not.
I'll quote the Swedish coach to sum up my thoughts on referee nationality: “I don’t care,†said Par Marts, the Swedish coach.
As far as bias goes, and I know another poster touched on it but it seems they were ignored, most of the match fixing or point shaving scandals I am aware of have been for cash. Not only are NHL refs the best in the business, but they make a very good living and should be less susceptible to that sort of thing than others. With the resumes of the selected refs I expect they are all in the upper range of NHL salaries (somewhere around the $200k mark), and any signs of partiality would jeopardise thier current employment.
As far as Olympic scandals go, most of the issues in judging/refereeing have come when those in question are beholden to thier national federation, which NHL referees are not.
I'll quote the Swedish coach to sum up my thoughts on referee nationality: “I don’t care,†said Par Marts, the Swedish coach.
What I bolded made me chuckle a little bit.
NHL refs have made so many horrendous calls during the regular season and playoffs and are still employed.
That is the last thing that they are worried or thinking about.
Ralfduran
Registered User
My problem with the Canada vs Latvia game, was that they didn't give Canada a lot of pps during the game. Instead, the waited until the end of the game, where they gave Canada pps for things they didn't call earlier in the game.
The same thing happend in the game versus Finland. They waited untill the the end of the game, before giving Canada pps.
The fact that Canada has the least amount of powerplays also shows that something is wrong. Call a penalty when it is a penalty. Don't wait until the end of the game when it's time for the game to be decided. That for sure, is a momentum-boost.
I'm not as impressed as you are with the Canadian refs this tournament. Sorry.
Starbuds
You like muscles?
- Mar 28, 2010
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Canada only received one powerplay in the third period. It was with nine minutes left.
Canada received no powerplays in either the second, third, or overtime periods.
Yeah, something is wrong. It's been going against Canada.
When did I say I was impressed with them? I criticized them for a lack of calls. You seem to be watching a different set of games entirely. Making up things that never happened.
Konstantin Olenin (RUS), Jyri Rönn (FIN), Brad Meier (USA), Tim Peel (USA) to name some.
Well they were calling swedes crybabies/whiners at first.
It's like kindergarten in here.
Well, Brad Meier is reffing this game.
And I'd like to point out that the rest of this is in no way directed at you, but, they chose the best refs available.
These refs are professionals. They make a living off of reffing games fairly. Do you think they're going to actively favour Canada if it shows them to be a mediocre ref. If they do this then they will significantly lose out on money as they will not be allowed to ref games in the olympics or the Stanley Cup playoffs.
And a lot of you are talking about the idea that they might mess up a 50/50 call at a critical part of the game. What's more likely, the best refs in the world messing up a call, or mediocre refs messing up a call. Give me the best refs available
Hell, look at the Canada-USA women's game. That game was reffed by a British ref. That ref was way over her head. There were a lot of questionable calls there that didn't favour one team over the other. Things that should have been a penalty not called. Things that shouldn't have been a penalty were called. And things that should have been called a penalty for one thing were called a penalty for something else. I would rather avoid an issue like that in this game.
And judging by this article it seems that even the Swedish players agree with me
http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/os2014/article18418857.ab
For any of the Swedes here, it's in Swedish, for others, feel free to use google translate.
And a TLDR on that link based on what the Swedish players are saying:
- Karlsson says it makes no difference. He adds that he's been reffed by them in the past and has met them
- Henrik Tallinder said that they're the refs they deal with in everyday life. He adds that they prefer them to be Canadian refs from the NHL because they have a relationship with the refs
- He says that if the ref does make the wrong decision he can reason with them and make sure the call is right, something that would be impossible with a Russian or a Czech ref (his words, not mine)
- Jonas Gustavsson agreed with him, adding that he would rather have an NHL ref than someone where you don't know where he's coming from and what his reffing style is
- Former NHLer Markus Naslund also added that he has a hard time seeing Meier and Sutherlan not being professional enough to be able to referee a game objectively
But by all means, continue making up excuses just in case Sweden loses
/thread
Ossific
Registered User
- Aug 23, 2010
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To be fair, Canada as stated, was dominant on puck possession for most of these games. It's pretty tough taking a penalty with the puck.. as for the end up the game part, this is when desperation set in for the opposing teams and played harder, that's when you are more likely to take a penalty.
I agree that the optics are bad, however I am confident that the refs in this game are the best refs, and they value the integrity of the game and would never do anything to throw a game. I know it's stupid to say, but as others have stated, if there were 3 amazing refs in the NHL that had a good reputation and they were chosen to ref this game, I'm fine with it. I am confident the game will be called fair and no one should be worried. I'm super excited for the game, and plan on heading down to the bar at 5:00am CST to watch it. Good luck to you fellow swedes and we should both witness an epic game!
Cheers,
As someone else pointed out, you really shouldn't use something that can easily be proved wrong as your proof.
http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/show/7027230?subseason=143136
http://stats.hockeycanada.ca/game/show/6732578?subseason=143136
Karlsson said he dident give a **** if Sweden gets more peneltys he just focusing on the game...
Wich is I dont give a **** what the ref is going to do, just look at yesterdays game, we hade two powerplays i dont know how many the fins had, but we won anyway, so this is not a thing we focus on.
[My own opinion: But still it will be question if the ref make a bad call and one of the team score and win the game because of that...]
booyakasha
Registered User
Oh my, ...some Swedish fans on here are rather...how should I put this?
I don't know, but i'm feeling rather embarrassed for them..
I don't know, but i'm feeling rather embarrassed for them..
To all those swedish fans flustered over the officiating that your team agreed to - I wish you a sleepless night.
To the rest - good luck! See you at puck drop!
To the rest - good luck! See you at puck drop!
SurMartin
Registered User
Yes, that is great. If the other guy and one of the linesmen had been Olenin and Rönn no one would have talked about this.
No I don't really belive they will, we're just thinking what if there's a controversial call, what do you think people will talk about then if the refs are canadians?
I don't think they are much better than the mentioned KHL-referees, hence why I included Peel in that comment, one of those godly NHL-referees... who most people actually think sucks.
Olenin and Rönn have not been critizised more than the NHL-referees in this tournament. Sure there's NHL-players, but it's IIHF-rules and it's big ice. It has all been decided and I can deal with the choices, I just think it was unnecessary to make a controversy a possibility.Yes. First of all they would not be allowed to say anything as it would cause a complete frenzy in the media and they would most likely lose focus, but it's true - We think the refs will do their job, we're just saying that it's unprofessional and unnecessary to make such a controversy a possibility. (Heck, Duchene even admitted that he'd say the same if the tables were turned.)
There's the kindergarten again, mate. Those kinds of comments just derails the thread.
Haha, nope it's not the thread. Here's how it will continue to go on:
1. Swedes says they wanted to have neutral refs because it's how it's done in other professionall sports. It would take away the possibility of a controversial call making the swedish "hive mind" blame the refs for being biased or the canadians blaming the refs for favoring sweden because they were trying to be impartial.
2. Canadians says they want canadians refs because they think they are the best.
3. Swedes disagree and says we could've gone with a US and FIN/RUS ref.
4. Canadians disagree because they say it won't make a difference, "the Canadian refs are neutral."
5. Swedes disagree and says that the point is that it's highly unprofessional and stupid to enable the possibility of a complete ****storm about biased refs if there's a bad call.
6. Canadians think it's stupid to not want the best refs
7. Swedes says the american NHL-refs and RUS/FIN has done just as well in this tournament.
8. Canadians disagree
...And on it goes... with many stupid OT-posts inbetween.
It's no use really, let's just enjoy the game and hope there's no controversy.
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Way to ignore the part where Tallinder and Gustavsson said they prefer having the NHL refs than any of the other KHL, SHL, or European refs
Buffalo-backen Henrik Tallinder ser positivt på att NHL-spelarna har en relation till domarna.
Its personality we have to deal with in our "workday" (don't know the word) over there, so you can allmoste argu with this guys if you think they have made a bad call and you can still resoning with them, its diffrens if you go to a russian or a czech , excuse but the english will not be the same and not the same flow in the match says "tallen" in Viasats studio.
They are there for a reason this guys is really good. rater a good ref then somone that you don't know where he coms from and dont have the samme level that you are used to says "monstret"
well i did my best to translate my english isnt the best but i think im still better then google translate
Funny thing that Canadas Matt Duchene agree with Peter Forsberg and say he would react likewise
SatanwasaSlovak
Registered User
No they didn't say that. They said they don't see anything wrong with having canadian referees, there is a difference.
Add to that an obvious tense feeling in the studio suddenly and that both of them is under contract to NHL and NHL is the part that wanted NHL-referees in the big games in the Olympics, well there's is your answer.
Tallinder specifically said that he prefers the NHL refs over Russian or Czech refs
