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Olympic Hockey Refereeing: Part II (mod warning post #190)

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YWGinYYZ said:
I know you weren't asking me, but: if they had the same level of accreditation and experience, I'd absolutely be fine with that.
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I think we got good refs here in europe aswell.

IceDaddy said:
the idea is to score more goals then the other team, dont break the rules and the refs shouldnt matter.
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bla bla like i said you seems to have hard time to understand that i want a clean match with no doubts about the ref... wich can not be if the refs is from Can or Swe
 
Jackson14 said:
Apparently its a big deal in Sweden. Canadian conspiracy to win the Olympics. Whats truly funny is no Canadian would even want to win a game because of the refs. Its just a ridiculous thought.
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not true

canadian fans did set off the fire alarm on the Finnish team hotel the night before the final not long ago.

Conspericy heck no! Its just very strange that a canadian game is reefed by bucks. There are great european refs as well. Im not informed how many percent is canadians on the IIHF, but some has gotten this right where they want it... because there are plenty great refs thats not canadian.

This just stupid from IIHF. Politics & Hockey religion.
 
aphyro said:
Would you say the same thing if it was Canada vs Russia with 3 ref from Russia?
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If they are NHL refs that have had the experience of a high octane pressure game like the Stanley Cup final then I would be fine with that. Ray Scampinello used to be a regular one in the Cup final. Terry Gregson comes to mind. Bill McCreary. Even Kerry Fraser and despite his missed call in 1993 he was still very good. These guys were fair. The last thing in the world they wanted anyone knowing was which games they refereed. This is who you want for a game like this.

I'll ask the skeptics this question right here: Can you think of a time when an NHL ref compromised the integrity of an important game? I don't mean with a bad call, but with eventual proof that he was trying to throw the game? When you can come up with that, then Forsberg and co. have an excuse. But you want the best in the world for this.
 
Big Phil said:
You know, in that USA-Russia game they went upstairs to check on the goal. That had nothing to do with the referee at that point. Nothing. It is out of his hands. Rene Fasel himself said that rule should be changed. As you can see, it had nothing to do with a referee calling it. Quick pointed it out to the ref, the ref went upstairs. If he spoke Chinese the ref would have done the same thing.

The Russians have a lot to complain about, but poor refereeing is not one of them. If people watched the Russian team and thought they got hosed by a questionable call and that was the end of them then you really weren't paying attention. Forsberg seems like he has a built in excuse already in place. Would you rather have a Joseph Kompalla clone Pete?
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I dident say the american ref did anything wrong? i just said the Russian wasent that happy about him big dif

IceDaddy said:
Please provide 1 example where team Canada has been given benefits cause of the refs....
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They can play how ugly they want and stil get away with it
 
First of all, any Olympic Games that decide to employ Tim Peel are immediately under suspicion, if not for bias, then for stupidity. Second, with all of the refs available throughout the world of hockey, why have any refs working their country's games at all? It is just dumb.
 
Was this not pre-set before the games started? That's usually the case isn't it? Therefore this could be a Sweden-Russia gold medal game and we'd have the same refs. The IIHF doesn't do any favours for Canada and the last thing a Canadian/NHL trained ref wants is to have the game compromised.
 
Big Phil said:
If they are NHL refs that have had the experience of a high octane pressure game like the Stanley Cup final then I would be fine with that. Ray Scampinello used to be a regular one in the Cup final. Terry Gregson comes to mind. Bill McCreary. Even Kerry Fraser and despite his missed call in 1993 he was still very good. These guys were fair. The last thing in the world they wanted anyone knowing was which games they refereed. This is who you want for a game like this.

I'll ask the skeptics this question right here: Can you think of a time when an NHL ref compromised the integrity of an important game? I don't mean with a bad call, but with eventual proof that he was trying to throw the game? When you can come up with that, then Forsberg and co. have an excuse. But you want the best in the world for this.
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Why should allways NHL be the exempel? seriously we got good refs here in europe aswell in our own leaugs you know ther is other places in the world with their own hockey leaugs then just Canada.
 
The ref would be Canadian regardless of which teams were In the final.
 
Big Phil said:
Was this not pre-set before the games started? That's usually the case isn't it? Therefore this could be a Sweden-Russia gold medal game and we'd have the same refs. The IIHF doesn't do any favours for Canada and the last thing a Canadian/NHL trained ref wants is to have the game compromised.
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yes it was, but its only a problem now. I find that quite interesting
 
ThisYearsModel said:
First of all, any Olympic Games that decide to employ Tim Peel are immediately under suspicion, if not for bias, then for stupidity. Second, with all of the refs available throughout the world of hockey, why have any refs working their country's games at all? It is just dumb.
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yup. end of thread, every one should get this, maybe not say it out loud, but it is real dumb. anyhow i hope on a fair game
 
aphyro said:
I think we got good refs here in europe aswell.



bla bla like i said you seems to have hard time to understand that i want a clean match with no doubts about the ref... wich can not be if the refs is from Can or Swe
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I'm sorry..but this is just your opinion. These officials chosen for this final have never been involved in scandals or associated with any games were 'bias' was involved or their ethics questioned. So why are we questioning them now? Your own countrymen like Karlson and Kronwall don't have a problem, yet people like you do.

Its simple, only people who are likely to act in a biased manner themselves think that others would do the same thing. Sorry buddy, believe it or not, there are ethical people out there.
 
Ed Wood said:
As a Canadian I'm uncomfortable with a Canadian referee in any games we participate in. I'm not doubting the integrity of the refs. I just think the optics are bad. There are plenty of competent referees from countries other than Canada. Why not use them?
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Finally a very sensible Canadian poster! Why not have American NHL refs in this game?

I think many Canadian posters really need to wake up and get a clue of what's happening outside the very small world of Canadian- and NHL hockey. Don’t you watch any other international sports?

In ANY other professional sport you DON'T have referees from the parties competing against each other. This is to avoid any kind of suspicion of not having an unbiased judgement. It's the basic principle of refereeing in all international sports! IF there would ever be any questionable calls, there won’t be any suspicion of partial judgement based on your nationality if you follow this principle.
It’s the same basic and very logical principle as for courts in all civilized countries, where a judge can’t have ANY ties what so ever to any of the two parts, just to avoid ANY suspicions of being biased.
 
aphyro said:
body checks?



When Edler did the same thing he got suspended the whole world cup and 2 games in the olympics:sarcasm:

Maybe cuz he hited an canadian palyer
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i dont understand the language but he seems to have gotten 5 minutes and a game miscontuct. Player suspensions is on the IIHF, not canadian refs...

your point seems to have a flaw in it....
 
aphyro said:
body checks?



When Edler did the same thing he got suspended the whole world cup and 2 games in the olympics:sarcasm:

Maybe cuz he hited an canadian palyer
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You think what edler did was the same as what Getzlaf did? Sure maybe when you don't consider the circumstances of the hit.
 
aphyro said:
Would you say the same thing if it was Canada vs Russia with 3 ref from Russia?
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Similar thing to what Big Phil said above, if these Russian refs were tenured and well-respected NHL officials then I would be fine with it. Or maybe replace Russia with any other country though because a Russian referree would face an enormous amount of scrutiny by the Russian media with the games being in Sochi.

I can see why Swedish fans would be wary of the situation because they probably don't have the same level of comfort with NHL officials as North Americans. But remember that almost every player on the Swedish team has these officials on a regular basis in the NHL and probably wouldn't have any trust issues.
 
IceDaddy said:
i dont understand the language but he seems to have gotten 5 minutes and a game miscontuct. Player suspensions is on the IIHF, not canadian refs...

your point seems to have a flaw in it....
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Are you trolling with me? I really hop you know when they suspended Edler from IIHF it was a former Canadian NHL ref that was in charge right:sarcasm:?
 
aphyro said:
body checks?

When Edler did the same thing he got suspended the whole world cup and 2 games in the olympics:sarcasm:

Maybe cuz he hited an canadian palyer
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And Getzlaf was assessed a 5 minute major and a game misconduct, leading to the Slovakian goal that won the game:

In Helsinki, Michal Handzus' power-play goal with 2:28 left in regulation sparked Slovakia to a 4-3 upset of Canada in the quarterfinals at the IIHF World Championship on Thursday.


The goal came four seconds after Canada captain Ryan Getzlaf was assessed a five-minute major and a game-misconduct for kneeing Slovakia forward Juraj Mikus.
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B Boarding said:
Finally a very sensible Canadian poster! Why not have American NHL refs in this game?

I think many Canadian posters really need to wake up and get a clue of what's happening outside the very small world of Canadian- and NHL hockey. Don’t you watch any other international sports?

In ANY other professional sport you DON'T have referees from the parties competing against each other. This is to avoid any kind of suspicion of not having an unbiased judgement. It's the basic principle of refereeing in all international sports! IF there would ever be any questionable calls, there won’t be any suspicion of partial judgement based on your nationality if you follow this principle.
It’s the same basic and very logical principle as for courts in all civilized countries, where a judge can’t have ANY ties what so ever to any of the two parts, just to avoid ANY suspicions of being biased.
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Who's to say an American ref wouldn't have bias though?

I totally get the ultimate point here I think it's kind of silly to have Canadians refereeing a Canadian game but when you scratch the surface and do some research on who these refs are and the clean history of corruption in hockey it's not as big of a deal. These are NHL professional refs. They have jobs to go back to after the Olympics.
 
One thing that would avoid so many problems is developing a standard of what is actually a penalty and when it should be called.

Since Euro and Canadian hockey unfortunately developed differently it makes sense that we run into these problems. The NA attitude certainly allows for more than the Euro sensibilities do especially where a potential call does not actually effect the outcome of the game. We can all agree that NA hockey is a much more physical game less like soccer on ice.

I can understand the concern of having referees from participating countries involved but isn't the alternative worse. Besides other sports at the Olympic games are regularly judged that way. And don't bring up figure skating because we all know about that.

I'm more concerned about these guys calling more penalties on Canada just to prove a point. Actually our power play is pretty rusty at the moment after having so few opportunities at these games.

As for Mr. Forsberg junior and senior maybe it's just karma.
 
The Latvian said:
You think what edler did was the same as what Getzlaf did? Sure maybe when you don't consider the circumstances of the hit.
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Both was checking to the knee or do you denie it? or is it other rules when a canadian injure players?

Its ben voice raised here in Sweden aswell that we shouldent play against Canada, before JWC in friendely games cuz everytime an important swe players get injured wille play against you:sarcasm:
 
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