HF Habs: Montreal Canadiens Hockey Ops - Part 3

[Kiss Under the Guy]

Not sure if it's just because he reminds me of Bergevin, but Lapointe seems like he's a douche. English douche, the only type of French douche he is is showering all of his douchiness on everyone around him.

Him sitting there with his stupid f***ing Gucci glasses adding nothing

I mean we can disrespect the man because of his poor work, but what you're writing here is basically hatred based on his appearance and isn't fine by me...

It's kind of funny when it's read with the voice of that guy though I admit

 

[Vachon23]

Super 16: Cooper, Maurice top coach power rankings | NHL.com

2-time Stanley Cup winner with Lightning, leader of reigning champion Panthers among best in NHL

www.nhl.com

St Louis is ranked 23th

 

[Habs Halifax]

Despite the Bergevin era, I’ve truly come to appreciate Geoff as an owner, specially when compared to owners like Joey Saputo.

We are lucky to have an owner who thinks further ahead and has long term excellence as the priority rather than one who’s trying to figure out how to spend less every year.

Yup! Molson is a good owner and I always felt that way. Yes, he went with Bergevin too long but he was always committed to winning and is not all about profits.

Remember when we hired Gorton and then Hughes and fans said Hughes will be Gorton's puppet? French angle BS and several fans were criticizing Molson for that move.

The one thing that Molson said and also something I said prior to was this... Lets stop having one face of the management (Bergevin) and have a President/GM who can share the load of the Montreal pressure. Well, Molson was smart to realize it.... took time but we are here today

 

[donghabs98]

What always annoyed me is how they constantly tried to blame it on the fans, that "the fans in Montréal wouldn't accept a rebuild" when it was obvious ownership and the media were the ones who truly had a problem with it.

There were members of the media who also went with this gaslight attempt at blaming fans. Sure, you had a portion of fans who didn't want a rebuild, but you'll always get those anywhere. Most Habs I talked to, including many on here just wanted to a team who could consistently compete and many recognized the need to rebuild in order for that to happen. Just think, had Bergy properly rebuilt following the 2018 season, our competitive window could be right now. It takes guts for a ownership group to be willing to accept a rebuild but if done correctly, it's really just short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

There were members of the media who also went with this gaslight attempt at blaming fans. Sure, you had a portion of fans who didn't want a rebuild, but you'll always get those anywhere. Most Habs I talked to, including many on here just wanted to a team who could consistently compete and many recognized the need to rebuild in order for that to happen. Just think, had Bergy properly rebuilt following the 2018 season, our competitive window could be right now. It takes guts for a ownership group to be willing to accept a rebuild but if done correctly, it's really just short term pain for long term gain.

Timing is everything though. If we select Kakko and Turcotte in back to back years, we'd still be spinning our wheels in the mud. Who knows what type of return Petry and Tatar would have brought back though.

 

[Sorinth]

Yup! Molson is a good owner and I always felt that way. Yes, he went with Bergevin too long but he was always committed to winning and is not all about profits.

Remember when we hired Gorton and then Hughes and fans said Hughes will be Gorton's puppet? French angle BS and several fans were criticizing Molson for that move.

The one thing that Molson said and also something I said prior to was this... Lets stop having one face of the management (Bergevin) and have a President/GM who can share the load of the Montreal pressure. Well, Molson was smart to realize it.... took time but we are here today

You think he was smart to realize that he should do what most of the rest of the NHL had been doing for years? That's a pretty low bar.

Also Bergevin was never president, nor is Gorton president now, they were/are VPs. Molson was and still is president.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You think he was smart to realize that he should do what most of the rest of the NHL had been doing for years? That's a pretty low bar.

Also Bergevin was never president, nor is Gorton president now, they were/are VPs. Molson was and still is president.

Not a low bar... there are other details involved as to why he kept Bergevin and I spoke towards that before. One of the biggest (quick statement) was when he gave Bergevin the extension. His extension came 1.75 years before the other one expired and a lot of shit happened in those 1.75 years with Bergevin (went downward). Fans like you wanted Molson to write off Millions of dollars and think it's just an easy decision to make. I think not! It is and will always be a business. You would make similar decisions in the same seat

You're nit picking stupid stuff. I know Molson is the president and we hired a VP and GM. Main point does not change. Two faces of the franchise vs 1. I thought that was what we should have done and Molson made that decision when? When Bergevin's contract was near the end. I am sure Molson regrets giving Bergevin the extension too early. People should be allowed to learn and grow and I believe Molson learned from that situation.

MOLSON IS A GOOD OWNER. You don't have to agree but that's my opinion. I don't agree with your low bar narrative.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Timing is everything though. If we select Kakko and Turcotte in back to back years, we'd still be spinning our wheels in the mud. Who knows what type of return Petry and Tatar would have brought back though.

100% agree. Lots of fans don't understand the timing/luck part of the business. Look at how long it will take Yzerman to get the Wings into a contender? He certainly didn't "inherit" what he did with Tampa when he started that job.

 

[Sorinth]

Not a low bar... there are other details involved as to why he kept Bergevin and I spoke towards that before. One of the biggest (quick statement) was when he gave Bergevin the extension. His extension came 1.75 years before the other one expired and a lot of shit happened in those 1.75 years with Bergevin (went downward). Fans like you wanted Molson to write off Millions of dollars and think it's just an easy decision to make. I think not! It is and will always be a business. You would make similar decisions in the same seat.

You're nit picking stupid stuff. I know Molson is the president and we hired a VP and GM. Main point does not change. Two faces of the franchise vs 1. I thought that was what we should have done and Molson made that decision when? When Bergevin's contract was near the end. I am sure Molson regrets giving Bergevin the extension too early. People should be allowed to learn and grow.

MOLSON IS A GOOD OWNER. You don't have to agree but that's my opinion. I don't agree with your low bar narrative.

Doing what all the other teams have been doing for years is a low bar. And for the record nothing stopped Molson from splitting Bergevin's job and keeping Bergevin at one of them. At any time he could have decided to split the VP/GM into seperate roles and simply left Bergevin in one of those roles, not write off the millions of dollars MB was owed, and still gotten the "two faces".

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doing what all the other teams have been doing for years is a low bar. And for the record nothing stopped Molson from splitting Bergevin's job and keeping Bergevin at one of them. At any time he could have decided to split the VP/GM into seperate roles and simply left Bergevin in one of those roles, not write off the millions of dollars MB was owed, and still gotten the "two faces".

None of this changes my original statement. I like Molson as our owner and you don't have too.

 

[Colezuki]

Super 16: Cooper, Maurice top coach power rankings | NHL.com

2-time Stanley Cup winner with Lightning, leader of reigning champion Panthers among best in NHL

www.nhl.com

St Louis is ranked 23th

Honestly, who cares about that list? Was maurice viewed as #2 when he was in winnipeg? likely not, until we start winning they'll say St. Louis is trash

 

[Sorinth]

None of this changes my original statement. I like Molson as our owner and you don't have too.

I never expected that it would. I was merely providing context for the statement that Molson was smart to realize he needed 2 "faces" in management. The context being that having a VP and a GM is actually the norm in the industry. Saying someone is smart for doing what everybody else was already doing is BS.

 

[BLONG7]

Not a low bar... there are other details involved as to why he kept Bergevin and I spoke towards that before. One of the biggest (quick statement) was when he gave Bergevin the extension. His extension came 1.75 years before the other one expired and a lot of shit happened in those 1.75 years with Bergevin (went downward). Fans like you wanted Molson to write off Millions of dollars and think it's just an easy decision to make. I think not! It is and will always be a business. You would make similar decisions in the same seat

You're nit picking stupid stuff. I know Molson is the president and we hired a VP and GM. Main point does not change. Two faces of the franchise vs 1. I thought that was what we should have done and Molson made that decision when? When Bergevin's contract was near the end. I am sure Molson regrets giving Bergevin the extension too early. People should be allowed to learn and grow and I believe Molson learned from that situation.

MOLSON IS A GOOD OWNER. You don't have to agree but that's my opinion. I don't agree with your low bar narrative.

Mol$on has become a better owner........................................but for many years, and you hit the nail, he gave out an extension that was not earned by anyone other than Price. There is ZERO chance any one in the league gives Bergevin that extension based on the way they played but Mol$on gave it out because of some results ( Price )
For this....................Mol$on gets a D- as an owner.

That was then......................and this is now, and he gets an A for making the right decisions in the last 2.5 years.
Better days ahead...................

 

[Habs Halifax]

I never expected that it would. I was merely providing context for the statement that Molson was smart to realize he needed 2 "faces" in management. The context being that having a VP and a GM is actually the norm in the industry. Saying someone is smart for doing what everybody else was already doing is BS.

Everybody does not have someone like Gorton at VP and/or President. Just because the title exists, it don't mean each team has the same qualified or experienced person at each spot. There are several VP's and Presidents that lack experience in hockey operations. Gorton and Hughes are two faces to our management team and both know hockey operations very well.

In one case, we had one guy as the face of the franchise in terms of hockey operations. In another, we have two. It's not hard to comprehend but you don't like Molson so you are going to go through hoops to diminish and spin things.

Molson (P), Wilson (VP), Bergevin (GM)
vs
Molson (P), Gorton (VP), Hughes (GM)

 

[Miller Time]

Everybody does not have someone like Gorton at VP and/or President. Just because the title exists, it don't mean each team has the same qualified or experienced person at each spot. There are several VP's and Presidents that lack experience in hockey operations. Gorton and Hughes are two faces to our management team and both know hockey operations very well.

In one case, we had one guy as the face of the franchise in terms of hockey operations. In another, we have two. It's not hard to comprehend but you don't like Molson so you are going to go through hoops to diminish and spin things.

Molson (P), Wilson (VP), Bergevin (GM)
vs
Molson (P), Gorton (VP), Hughes (GM)

Molson did well in hiring Gorton and letting him re-build the hockey ops team as he saw fit.

But that doesn't erase or excuse the obvious incompetence he displayed in giving rookie GM MB the keys to the house and letting him stack blunder after blunder for a decade, alienating fans, alumni & players along the way.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Molson did well in hiring Gorton and letting him re-build the hockey ops team as he saw fit.

But that doesn't erase or excuse the obvious incompetence he displayed in giving rookie GM MB the keys to the house and letting him stack blunder after blunder for a decade, alienating fans, alumni & players along the way.

Someone said that Bettman recommended Gorton for the VP job. Did Molson choose him or just take Gary's suggestion.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Someone said that Bettman recommended Gorton for the VP job. Did Molson choose him or just take Gary's suggestion.

He took his suggestion. Bettman didn't tell him to hire Gorton. But Molson did consult with Bettman (surely wasn't the only one he consulted). But Gary did suggest Gorton and he did help him get in touch with Gorton. If I recall correctly, Gorton was in Vancouver because his son was at a hockey tournament there. And from there, they ended up meeting in New York. And from the rest is history.

 

[26Mats]

Being hyped for a Timmins pick this late is weird.

His progression has been stellar, I remember being super underwhelmed early.

Timmins had a late surge that has left us with some good young players. It was too little too late, but it's nice to have.

Caufield
Guhle
Mailloux
Roy
Arber Xhekaj (from the amature scouting department no doubt)
Kapanan
Struble
Harris --> Laine
Romanov --> Dach
Lehkonen --> Barron + 2nd
Sergachev --> Drouin (ouch!)
Evans
Primeau?
(Plus prospects, Farrell, Dobes, RHP, Trudeau, etc...)

 

[Tyson]

Timmins had a late surge that has left us with some good young players. It was too little too late, but it's nice to have.

Caufield
Guhle
Mailloux
Roy
Arber Xhekaj (from the amature scouting department no doubt)
Kapanan
Struble
Harris --> Laine
Romanov --> Dach
Lehkonen --> Barron + 2nd
Sergachev --> Drouin (ouch!)
Evans
Primeau?

While we can question the quality of picks Timmins took, what I find interesting is since 2019 it seems players have been developed much better.

 

[Favster]

While we can question the quality of picks Timmins took, what I find interesting is since 2019 it seems players have been developed much better.

Honestly, this might be a bit controversial, but I think the development aspect is perhaps a bit overblown. I think we've honestly just drafted better players the last 5 years.

How many of out picks in the last 5 years have had great D+1 seasons? A lot.

D+1 season is typically played before being part of the organisational development structure, well they are less involved than when prospects turn pro or come to North America, for European prospects. Now that being said, development is defeinitely an important organizational facet, you want the players to have access to all resources to make it but it just can't replace talent.

 

[morhilane]

While we can question the quality of picks Timmins took, what I find interesting is since 2019 it seems players have been developed much better.

Habs made a draft strategy change in 2018/2019. It's around that time they brought in the psychologist if I remember right.

 

[rahad]

Habs made a draft strategy change in 2018/2019. It's around that time they brought in the psychologist if I remember right.

It has been working very well. We have so many young players going from Laval to Montreal. Drafting has one of your main weakness in the Bergevin era.

 

[LaP]

While we can question the quality of picks Timmins took, what I find interesting is since 2019 it seems players have been developed much better.

Unless i'm mistaken there's only 1 guy remaining from the old scouting team management and it is Martin Lapointe right? I know we hired him as a player developement guy in 2012 but when was he promoted to more responsability in scouting/player personel?

 

[montreal]

Unless i'm mistaken there's only 1 guy remaining from the old scouting team management and it is Martin Lapointe right?

no, check the op.

 

[morhilane]

Unless i'm mistaken there's only 1 guy remaining from the old scouting team management and it is Martin Lapointe right? I know we hired him as a player developement guy in 2012 but when was he promoted to more responsability in scouting/player personel?

Most of the amateur scouts were there under MB, some were even there before MB like Rockstrom, Hannu Laine (joined in the 2000-2001 season!), and Boisvert (there are more).