Oilers waive Jack Campbell

[K1984]

There's a decent chance Campbell can retake his spot. Like I said, 7.6M on both goalies is about right. Most teams are spending closer or over 10M for a tandem.

There just isn't. Like 10% maybe, at most.

 

[Canovin]

There just isn't. Like 10% maybe, at most.

I'd say 33.3% chance

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Because he's a $5M player who failed the team twice in a row. There's NO reason to expect things to be different. It's why you MOVE ON. It's why the team is planning to do so.

I agree with everything you said except the bolded.

Goalies are voodoo. And our professional scouting, and goaltending coach seems terrible.
If your goal is to retain Pickard? Well.. what makes you think he won't substantially regress under Schwartz next season when EVERY other goalie has?

Secondly, if we get a replacement? well? Who is going to scout the replacement? the guys that brought us Jack Campbell in the first place??

Sergei Bobrovsky is a $10million player who failed the Panthers for 3.9 seasons, and Florida is sure glad to have him now.

We walked away from Talbot after 2 bad seasons, and now he's near the top of the league in goaltending stats in nearly every category. Put up great numbers in Calgary and Minnesota too. I kinda wish he were in our net.

Is Jack Campbell toast?
I'm not 100% positive he is. If he bombed in the AHL, then yes I would agree, but he's putting up some of the best numbers in the AHL and has earned another shot with the big team.

 

[K1984]

Much rather give him another shot than ever consider buying out that contract

Skinner has looked like garbage throughout the year as well and so many years of dead cap is terrible, its the main reason calgary so heavily won the lucic neal swap

Because the $6M of dead cap space on their roster was somehow better than the $1.9M of dead cap space on our roster?

I don't know how this possibly escapes people, but just because the player is still on your roster does not mean that that cap space is not dead. Lucic - $1M player getting paid $6. That is $5M of dead cap space. Campbell - should be making $1M, but is making $5. That is $4M of dead cap space. Really not complicated.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

I agree with everything you said except the bolded.

No, you can't get failed by the same guy that has failed the team twice. You have to move on. It's the only logical thing do to.

 

[K1984]

I agree with everything you said except the bolded.

Goalies are voodoo. And our professional scouting, and goaltending coach seems terrible.
If your goal is to retain Pickard? Well.. what makes you think he won't substantially regress under Schwartz next season when EVERY other goalie has?

Secondly, if we get a replacement? well? Who is going to scout the replacement? the guys that brought us Jack Campbell in the first place??

Sergei Bobrovsky is a $10million player who failed the Panthers for 3.9 seasons, and Florida is sure glad to have him now.

We walked away from Talbot after 2 bad seasons, and now he's near the top of the league in goaltending stats in nearly every category. Put up great numbers in Calgary and Minnesota too. I kinda wish he were in our net.

Is Jack Campbell toast?
I'm not 100% positive he is. If he bombed in the AHL, then yes I would agree, but he's putting up some of the best numbers in the AHL and has fully deserved another shot with the big team.

There are way too many implications to keeping Campbell vs. buying him out (especially this year specifically) to roll the dice and hope it just works because goalies are "voodoo."

Campbell is a complete f***ing head case whose recent results can't be used as any sort of indicator of future results. Remember in the pre-season when he all of a sudden looked big, looked calm, was tracking the puck well and making saves after a purported off season of a reset and hard work? That went out the window almost immediately and he was back to being a mess. If he had a multi-Vezina track record like Bobrovsky had I might have more patience, but basically a season and a half of decent (not great, just decent) hockey in Toronto isn't enough to take the risk.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

No, you can't get failed by the same guy that has failed the team twice. You have to move on. It's the only logical thing do to.

This can't be treated like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on you.

You have to understand the absolute WORST case scenario for us, is we are paying him for a buyout, and he plays substantially better than his replacement?

Like if he signs for a league min salary in Toronto and puts up 0.915% and we're paying him $2.5m not to play here, it's horrible asset management right?

There are way too many implications to keeping Campbell vs. buying him out (especially this year specifically) to roll the dice and hope it just works because goalies are "voodoo."

Campbell is a complete f***ing head case whose recent results can't be used as any sort of indicator of future results. Remember in the pre-season when he all of a sudden looked big, looked calm, was tracking the puck well and making saves after a purported off season of a reset and hard work? That went out the window almost immediately and he was back to being a mess. If he had a multi-Vezina track record like Bobrovsky had I might have more patience, but basically a season and a half of decent (not great, just decent) hockey in Toronto isn't enough to take the risk.

Let me refresh your memory on what Skinner's numbers looked like under Woody this season:

We know Campbell was bad, but we cant pin our start of the year 100% on Campbell when Skinner was STATISTICALLY worse.

We had adjustment problems to the new system, and everyone played poorly including McDavid.

The ONLY difference between Skinner and Campbell was that Skinner was given the opportunity to work through it while Campbell was ditched.

 

[K1984]

This can't be treated like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on you.

You have to understand the absolute WORST case scenario for us, is we are paying him for a buyout, and he plays substantially better than his replacement?

Like if he signs for a league min salary in Toronto and puts up 0.915% and we're paying him $2.5m not to play here, it's horrible asset management right?



Let me refresh your memory on what Skinner's numbers looked like under Woody this season:

View attachment 838965

We know Campbell was bad, but we cant pin our start of the year 100% on Campbell when Skinner was STATISTICALLY worse.

We had adjustment problems to the new system, and everyone played poorly including McDavid.

The ONLY difference between Skinner and Campbell was that Skinner was given the opportunity to work through it while Campbell was ditched.

No, it isn't because every decision is made on factoring in the likelihood of certain scenarios occurring. Would that suck? Sure. Would he do the same thing here? Literally impossible to tell. Would we pretty much be guaranteed to f*** ourselves if we don't get rid of him this year and he repeats what he's already done twice? Yes, that part is a guarantee. The relatively small reward of "yay Campbell can at least be a backup now" is not worth the risk of "we have no cap room to do anything, a goalie that isn't playable, and a dry goalie acquisition market." We frankly got lucky that Pickard was able to play the backup role this year, we might not be so lucky in the future.

Among many differences between Skinner and Campbell, the biggest one is the fact that Skinner has been able to maintain high quality of play for a long stretch of time over multiple seasons and Campbell hasn't. This isn't being considered for some reason.

 

[Canovin]

No, it isn't because every decision is made on factoring in the likelihood of certain scenarios occurring. Would that suck? Sure. Would he do the same thing here? Literally impossible to tell. Would we pretty much be guaranteed to f*** ourselves if we don't get rid of him this year and he repeats what he's already done twice? Yes, that part is a guarantee. The relatively small reward of "yay Campbell can at least be a backup now" is not worth the risk of "we have no cap room to do anything, a goalie that isn't playable, and a dry goalie acquisition market." We frankly got lucky that Pickard was able to play the backup role this year, we might not be so lucky in the future.

Among many differences between Skinner and Campbell, the biggest one is the fact that Skinner has been able to maintain high quality of play for a long stretch of time over multiple seasons and Campbell hasn't. This isn't being considered for some reason.

To be fair, Campbell has a better track record than Skinner. Just not with Woody Oilers

 

[K1984]

To be fair, Campbell has better track record than Skinner. Just not with Woody Oilers

How is his track record at all better than Skinner's? Generously, you could probably say that Campbell's pre-Edmonton time in the NHL is comparable to Skinner's time. Generously being the key word there because I don't think that's accurate either.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I agree with everything you said except the bolded.

Goalies are voodoo. And our professional scouting, and goaltending coach seems terrible.
If your goal is to retain Pickard? Well.. what makes you think he won't substantially regress under Schwartz next season when EVERY other goalie has?

Secondly, if we get a replacement? well? Who is going to scout the replacement? the guys that brought us Jack Campbell in the first place??

Sergei Bobrovsky is a $10million player who failed the Panthers for 3.9 seasons, and Florida is sure glad to have him now.

We walked away from Talbot after 2 bad seasons, and now he's near the top of the league in goaltending stats in nearly every category. Put up great numbers in Calgary and Minnesota too. I kinda wish he were in our net.

Is Jack Campbell toast?
I'm not 100% positive he is. If he bombed in the AHL, then yes I would agree, but he's putting up some of the best numbers in the AHL and has earned another shot with the big team.

I am 100% positive Campbell is toast. One way or another he's gone this offseason. Can't have that much money tied up in that big a question mark that hasn't been good in his entire time here.

This can't be treated like an ex-girlfriend who cheated on you.

You have to understand the absolute WORST case scenario for us, is we are paying him for a buyout, and he plays substantially better than his replacement?

Like if he signs for a league min salary in Toronto and puts up 0.915% and we're paying him $2.5m not to play here, it's horrible asset management right?



Let me refresh your memory on what Skinner's numbers looked like under Woody this season:

View attachment 838966

We know Campbell was bad, but we cant pin our start of the year 100% on Campbell when Skinner was STATISTICALLY worse.

We had adjustment problems to the new system, and everyone played poorly including McDavid.

The ONLY difference between Skinner and Campbell was that Skinner was given the opportunity to work through it while Campbell was ditched.

And that Campbell was trash last season too and Skinner came in and saved Holland's bacon and was a Calder runner up. There's a vast difference between the two.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How is his track record at all better than Skinner's? Generously, you could probably say that Campbell's pre-Edmonton time in the NHL is comparable to Skinner's time. Generously being the key word there because I don't think that's accurate either.

This. Campbell was a backup for 90% of his career. He caught lighting in a bottle and turned it into 25 million bucks. Even if you think that he can be a good backup here again, we simply cant have that contract on the roster next year.

 

[Canovin]

How is his track record at all better than Skinner's? Generously, you could probably say that Campbell's pre-Edmonton time in the NHL is comparable to Skinner's time. Generously being the key word there because I don't think that's accurate either.

Pre-Oilers Campbell was better than Skinner. Just swing by hockeydb and see for yourself. He went 130 games averaging around .920%

 

[K1984]

Pre-Oiler Campbell was better than Skinner. Just swing by hockeydb and see for yourself. He went 130 games averaging around .920%

I saw for myself by actually watching him a lot when he was a Leaf, especially in the bubble year. At no point was he any more than a "he might be good, but he isn't consistent and really bad when off" goalie, just like Skinner.

Actually, that's not true. He was in the Vezina conversation for about a month three years ago, then completely imploded (again) for the back half of their season before helping them bow out in the first round. The stats that you are excited about? That .920 would probably be a .930 had he not rattled off about 3 months of .885 goaltending before coming here and doing the same. He hasn't played anything resembling NHL quality goaltending for two and a half years now, but we're pretending that doesn't matter for some reason.

 

[Canovin]

This. Campbell was a backup for 90% of his career. He caught lighting in a bottle and turned it into 25 million bucks. Even if you think that he can be a good backup here again, we simply cant have that contract on the roster next year.

If one day Campbell turns things around and lives up to his contact. He's not the enemy here. It's the dead cap and terrible handling of Brown's bonuses. It's has always been. And people are looking to add more dead caps?

 

[K1984]

This. Campbell was a backup for 90% of his career. He caught lighting in a bottle and turned it into 25 million bucks. Even if you think that he can be a good backup here again, we simply cant have that contract on the roster next year.

He's also been a backup in the AHL and ECHL for a good part of his minor league career as well.

He had a hot run as a backup in LA, got dealt to Toronto and kind of kept the dream alive for a bit, then reverted back to his true self and has been there for almost three years now. He pretty much only has one full season of normal, non-bubble NHL hockey under his belt as a starter, and it didn't go well.

 

[McShogun99]

No, the team is done with him and should be. It's either a trade out of town or a buyout. There are no other option.

6 year buyout is to long and it would cost to much in assets to move him after this year. He was playing better then Skinner before he got sent down and if comes in next year and plays to his potential under the new system then trading him will be much easier.

 

[K1984]

If one day Campbell turns things around and lives up to his contact. He's not the enemy here. It's the dead cap and terrible handling of Brown's bonuses. It's has always been. And people are looking to add more dead caps?

For about the 8th time -

Jack Campbell, as we sit here today is dead cap. If we keep him and he somehow gets to backup level again (basically the best we can hope for), he is still dead cap. No matter what, Campbell is dead cap.

Campbell is currently a $750k/year goalie, but is $3.9 on our cap. That's all dead space. If Campbell somehow rises to the level of decent NHL backup, then he might be a $2.5M goalie. That's still $2.5M of dead cap. No matter what, we have dead cap.

Buying him out limits the amount of dead cap, while allowing us to seek a more reliable goalie. Much better than pissing his $5M cap into the wind again and simply hoping for the best.

 

[Canovin]

For about the 8th time -

Jack Campbell, as we sit here today is dead cap. If we keep him and he somehow gets to backup level again (basically the best we can hope for), he is still dead cap. No matter what, Campbell is dead cap.

Campbell is currently a $750k/year goalie, but is $3.9 on our cap. That's all dead space. If Campbell somehow rises to the level of decent NHL backup, then he might be a $2.5M goalie. That's still $2.5M of dead cap. No matter what, we have dead cap.

Sure as of right now Campbell is dead cap. But if he retakes the starting role and refill his contract, 5M is about right for a starting goalie. Most starting goalies are asking for 6M+ now.

 

[K1984]

Sure as of right now Campbell is dead cap. But if he retakes the starting role and refill his contract, 5M is about right for a starting goalie. Most starting goalies are asking for 6M+ now.

If my aunty had a dick she would be my uncle.

If Mcleod scores 40 next year we're going to have a hard time resigning him. That statement is approximately as absurd as hoping that Campbell can play to the quality of a $5M cap hit again.

 

[Canovin]

If my aunty had a dick she would be my uncle.

If Mcleod scores 40 next year we're going to have a hard time resigning him. That statement is approximately as absurd as hoping that Campbell can play to the quality of a $5M cap hit again.

I feel like you're fearing the inevitable. Campbell is coming back and most likely taking his starting role back. Probably the easiest position in the league to steal. Even Pickard is making a case for starting goalie

 

[K1984]

I feel like you're fearing the inevitable. Campbell is coming back and most likely taking his starting role back. Probably the easiest position in the league to steal. Even Pickard is doing a better job

It's impossible to engage in conversation or debate with someone living in a different reality, so I'll just leave this as it is.

 

[Broberg Speed]

It's impossible to engage in conversation or debate with someone living in a different reality, so I'll just leave this as it is.

If the Oilers buyout Campbell I could see the Flames finally trading Markstrom, then signing Campbell as an UFA.

Before anyone says it... Campbell would be the starter and Wolf would be the backup.

 

[OilerTyler]

I feel like you're fearing the inevitable. Campbell is coming back and most likely taking his starting role back. Probably the easiest position in the league to steal. Even Pickard is making a case for starting goalie

That's a pretty spicy take. Knob has gotten elite goaltending from Skinner and Pickard. I don't see how switching up the goalies would even be on his radar.

 

[Broberg Speed]

That's a pretty spicy take. Knob has gotten elite goaltending from Skinner and Pickard. I don't see how switching up the goalies would even be on his radar.

your viewpoint is equally seasoned... I guess we'll have to wait for the playoffs for the taste test