Oilers now 13-12-1: THE THREAD THAT'S FUN FOR EVERYONE

[GOilers88]

I don't think you understand pace.

The first 12 games affected their pace just as much as their last 12 games. You can argue they're not as bad as their first 12 games but you can also argue they're not as good as their last 12 games. Hence, we look at their current pace. I don't expect Edmonton to finish the season on a 64 game win steak.

You just think they're going to lose 41 games because the pace says so?

You do you, lol.

 

[Divine]

You just think they're going to lose 41 games because the pace says so?

You do you, lol.

Yes, I do.

The same players that lost the first 12 games are still on the roster.

I think at best they're a wildcard team. What's your prediction for the season? Willing to make an avatar bet on it?

 

[GOilers88]

Yes, I do.

None of their flaws in their first 41 games were addressed. Skinner is not going to be hot all season.

They haven't played 41 games.

 

[Divine]

They haven't played 41 games.

Want to make an avatar bet on their end of season finish?

You tell me where you think the Oilers will be after 82 games are played.

 

[GOilers88]

Want to make an avatar bet on their end of season finish?

Absolutely.

When they don't lose 41 games you have to use an I love the Oilers avatar.

 

[Divine]

Absolutely.

When they don't lose 41 games you have to use an I love the Oilers avatar.

That makes no sense.

So what's your prediction actually - that they finish 42-39-1? I can agree with that - it's a similar pace.

You're arguing they're a much better team than their pace suggests - but want to make a bet that they have normal deviations in their current pace? I think we're on the same page if we're both arguing that their current pace is what they are.

How about 99.5 points - over/under?

 

[Soundwave]

It's crazy how much perspective changes things

If you told the Oilers fans they were going to be under .500 and out of a playoff spot on December 9th - they'd be fuming. Imagine telling McDavid after showing up 2 weeks early in his 'Cup or Bust season' that he's going to start worse than last season and be out of a playoff spot.

However, now it's supposed to mean they're good.

They might be a bubble team. They're one losing streak away from going straight to the basement. They got absolutely no margin for error. Their saving grace is the West outside the top 3 in each division has been complete garbage this year and they could probably get in a wild card spot with the lowest point total of any playoff teams in the NHL.

Have to put things in context.

Last year they had 26 points at game 24. This year they have 23 points at game 24.

So 3 point difference. Last year they finished with 109 points.

Considering this year McDavid suffered a bad hip injury and was playing hurt for 4-5 weeks (basically half the season to date) and Ekholm was also injured in training camp and has only started to play like himself the last couple of weeks ...

I'll take it.

The Oilers are notoriously a team that isn't great in the 1st half of the year been that way for a while.

 

[Divine]

Have to put things in context.

Last year they had 26 points at game 24. This year they have 23 points at game 24.

So 3 point difference.

Considering this year McDavid suffered a bad hip injury and was playing hurt for 4-5 weeks (basically half the season to date) and Ekholm was also injured in training camp and has only started to play like himself the last couple of weeks ...

I'll take it.

The Oilers are notoriously a team that isn't great in the 1st half of the year.

I don't deny that they could improve.

Just look at last year, they went all-in at the deadline to improve. The fact that Ken Holland has already fired his coach for a new coach bump and is seemingly willing to take Connor Brown's 3.25M overage into next season suggests to me they're going to be aggressive at the trade deadline again.

I'm assuming they have a better team after the trade deadline than they have today, leading to a stronger finish to the season just like last season. That said, they dug a hole early and now have a longer climb. I don't think me suggesting they'll be fighting for a wildcard spot after the hole they dug is absurd.

 

[Oilslick941611]

We're going to have a chance to leap frog Calgary tomorrow!

 

[Soundwave]

I don't deny that they could improve.

Just look at last year, they went all-in at the deadline to improve. The fact that Ken Holland has already fired his coach for a new coach bump and is seemingly willing to take Connor Brown's 3.25M overage into next season suggests to me they're going to be aggressive at the trade deadline again.

I'm assuming they have a better team after the trade deadline than they have today, leading to a stronger finish to the season just like last season. That said, they dug a hole early and now have a longer climb. I don't think me suggesting they'll be fighting for a wildcard spot after the hole they dug is absurd.

They will probably add a goalie at some point, probably closer to the deadline.

As for Wild Card or not, I wouldn't want to play this team in round 1 as a top seed. Especially if they do have a goalie upgrade.

If they were to catch one of the 3 Pacific teams it probably means another LA-Edmonton series in round 1, and I think honestly that might be the hardest match up possible. Kings are going to really be playing 150% after getting eliminated 2 years in a row by the Oilers.

 

[North Cole]

It's crazy how much perspective changes things

If you told the Oilers fans they were going to be under .500 and out of a playoff spot on December 9th - they'd be fuming. Imagine telling McDavid after showing up 2 weeks early in his 'Cup or Bust season' that he's going to start worse than last season and be out of a playoff spot.

However, now it's supposed to mean they're good.

They might be a bubble team. They're one losing streak away from going straight to the basement. They got absolutely no margin for error. Their saving grace is the West outside the top 3 in each division has been complete garbage this year and they could probably get in a wild card spot with the lowest point total of any playoff teams in the NHL.

It's crazy how much bias and narrative change things. If you were to tell OP we would be around 0.500 on December 9th, this thread likely wouldn't have been made so that's really just an irrelevant supposition.

The record quite clearly speaks for itself, you thinking that a near 0.500 record is "suppose to mean they are good" is your opinion. If that's not your opinion, then it's just introducing something fabricated to argue against. It's the modern 3-point NHL, no one has any margin for error.

People are arguing against the idea they currently look more bust than cup as presented by the OP and various other detractors. This is both because their advanced stats were always good and because no one has any clue what is cup or bust in December. Most Oiler fans are fuming, but you can be upset about the position of the team, recognize the hole they are in, and laugh at the stupidity demonstrated by various posters in this thread. None of those are mutually exclusive.

Additionally the pace arguments being presented don't make a lot of sense.

 

[Divine]

It's crazy how much bias and narrative change things. If you were to tell OP we would be around 0.500 on December 9th, this thread likely wouldn't have been made so that's really just an irrelevant supposition.

The record quite clearly speaks for itself, you thinking that a near 0.500 record is "suppose to mean they are good" is your opinion. If that's not your opinion, then it's just introducing something fabricated to argue against. It's the modern 3-point NHL, no one has any margin for error.

People are arguing against the idea they currently look more bust than cup as presented by the OP and various other detractors. This is both because their advanced stats were always good and because no one has any clue what is cup or bust in December. Most Oiler fans are fuming, but you can be upset about the position of the team, recognize the hole they are in, and laugh at the stupidity demonstrated by various posters in this thread. None of those are mutually exclusive.

Additionally the pace arguments being presented don't make a lot of sense.

I mean - if you just read the OP the argument is pretty straight forward.

The Oilers introduced their 'Cup or Bust' expectations suggesting anything other than a Cup is a bust.

If you're not arguing they'll win a Cup this year, then the bust prediction claimed by the OP is still accurate. However, people have convoluted the OP's argument to mean 'good or bust' or 'playoffs or bust' and there's various moving of the goalposts by changing the definition of bust.

They will probably add a goalie at some point, probably closer to the deadline.

As for Wild Card or not, I wouldn't want to play this team in round 1 as a top seed. Especially if they do have a goalie upgrade.

If they were to catch one of the 3 Pacific teams it probably means another LA-Edmonton series in round 1, and I think honestly that might be the hardest match up possible. Kings are going to really be playing 150% after getting eliminated 2 years in a row by the Oilers.

The Oilers fans said the Kings were their hardest matchup last year also, and then got eliminated by the Knights.

I personally think Colorado and Vegas are much tougher - but the Kings are a good team when healthy - which they haven't been the last 2 seasons when they played the Oilers in the playoffs.

 

[WestCoast CyberG]

Yes, I do.

The same players that lost the first 12 games are still on the roster.

I think at best they're a wildcard team. What's your prediction for the season? Willing to make an avatar bet on it?

Those same players also had a different coach, which is a huge shift.

On pace only makes sense for points IMO. Right now EDM is on pace for 80 points. Before last game they were on pace for 77 points. Any combo of wins or losses will change as the season wraps and it will get more accurate.

It is so hard to track WINS/LOSSES alone when we have OTL points up for grabs. It should be 3 points win, 1 point OTL the loser point is far to weighted towards overall standings.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Their pace is a fact.

Sure, you can argue they'll win all their remaining games and change their pace. Equally, you can argue they'll lose all their remaining game and destroy their pace.

Over a third of the season, they lose more games than they win.

Thats a not a fact then now is it if it changes so frequently.

Are you saying the Oilers first 12 games locked them into a pace that will not change at all?

They are right back in the race. unless you count the blues out as well and assume the standings won't change at all from now until the end of the season, are you really arguing that?

I mean - if you just read the OP the argument is pretty straight forward.

The Oilers introduced their 'Cup or Bust' expectations suggesting anything other than a Cup is a bust.

If you're not arguing they'll win a Cup this year, then the bust prediction claimed by the OP is still accurate. However, people have convoluted the OP's argument to mean 'good or bust' or 'playoffs or bust' and there's various moving of the goalposts by changing the definition of bust.



The Oilers fans said the Kings were their hardest matchup last year also, and then got eliminated by the Knights.

I personally think Colorado and Vegas are much tougher - but the Kings are a good team when healthy - which they haven't been the last 2 seasons when they played the Oilers in the playoffs.

you're just playing the splitting hair idiot now. Theres no arguing with you. You're just going on the list with 3on0. You have good company. Maybe I'll see you in quoted posts, maybe not, have fun though.

 

[Divine]

Thats a not a fact then now is it if it changes so frequently.

Are you saying the Oilers first 12 games locked them into a pace that will not change at all?

They are right back in the race. unless you count the blues out as well and assume the standings won't change at all from now until the end of the season, are you really arguing that?

How are the Blues out of it? They're one point out. The pace will fluctuate, of course.

Pace isn't an absolute predictor because the trade deadline changes teams and injuries can derail some seasons. If all teams were guaranteed to be healthy and ice the same roster from start to finish, then yes.

The Oilers have, however, ruined their chance of going on an extended losing streak and still making the playoffs.

Edit: To your edit - how am I splitting hairs? The Oilers themselves argued Cup or Bust. If anything other than a Cup is a bust - it's pretty straightforward. However, fans are changing the definition of bust for argument sake - which is ridiculous.

 

[Bank Shot]

The Oilers advanced stats metrics are the best they have ever been. They are top 5 in corsi %, shots for%, expected goals %, etc etc. Top five in every measure of carrying the play. Save and shooting percentages are lagging.

I found it interesting that the bookkeepers in Vegas never abandoned the Oilers during the rough start. When they were like 5-10 the oddsmakers kept having them as the favorites.

 

[Oilslick941611]

How are the Blues out of it? They're one point out. The pace will fluctuate, of course.

Pace isn't an absolute predictor because the trade deadline changes teams and injuries can derail some seasons. If all teams were guaranteed to be healthy and ice the same roster from start to finish, then yes.

The Oilers have, however, ruined their chance of going on an extended losing streak and still making the playoffs.

because the blues have played 26 games, oilers 24 games. If the oilers win their two games in hand which likely given the schedule, they are on the same pace as the blues. See how stupid your argument about pace is? Should also add Edmonton is scoring more goals and giving up less than the blues as well.

good timing, caught me before I added you to the list.

 

[Divine]

because the blues have played 26 games, oilers 24 games. If the oilers win their two games in hand which likely given the schedule, they are on the same pace as the blues. See how stupid your argument about pace is?

good timing, caught me before I added you to the list.

Yeah, but the Oilers winning their next 2 games alters their pace. They lose the next 2 after that and the pace remains the same.

I'm only speaking to their pace today - I expect it to improve after the trade deadline.

My only argument this whole thread was that because of the hole they dug, they are now pushing for a wildcard spot instead of top 3 in the Pacific.

 

[Soundwave]

I mean - if you just read the OP the argument is pretty straight forward.

The Oilers introduced their 'Cup or Bust' expectations suggesting anything other than a Cup is a bust.

If you're not arguing they'll win a Cup this year, then the bust prediction claimed by the OP is still accurate. However, people have convoluted the OP's argument to mean 'good or bust' or 'playoffs or bust' and there's various moving of the goalposts by changing the definition of bust.



The Oilers fans said the Kings were their hardest matchup last year also, and then got eliminated by the Knights.

I personally think Colorado and Vegas are much tougher - but the Kings are a good team when healthy - which they haven't been the last 2 seasons when they played the Oilers in the playoffs.

Colorado of 2022 was on a different level, but that teams basically doesn't exist any more (lost Landeskog, Kadri, Burakovsky, etc.), I'd say Vegas/LA honestly are quite close. Vegas has a little more poise, but LA plays us harder if that makes sense.

 

[North Cole]

I mean - if you just read the OP the argument is pretty straight forward.

The Oilers introduced their 'Cup or Bust' expectations suggesting anything other than a Cup is a bust.

If you're not arguing they'll win a Cup this year, then the bust prediction claimed by the OP is still accurate. However, people have convoluted the OP's argument to mean 'good or bust' or 'playoffs or bust' and there's various moving of the goalposts by changing the definition of bust.

Yes, let us read the OP's argument:

Thoughts?

It's quite literally just the word "thoughts". Please explain how that amounts to any sort of argument by the OP.

The OIlers introducing their cup or bust expectations, suggesting anything other than a cup is a bust, has exactly what to do with anything on Oct 24, 2023, when this thread was made? Was the cup awarded on Oct 23, 2023? Or the 24th? Has it been awarded as of today?

The answer to those rhetorical questions is quite obviously no. So how did the season look more bust than cup at that point in time? Could it have been because the team was falling into the abyss and looked like they would quickly have no hope of qualifying for the playoffs where they could challenge for the cup?

Given that you need to make the playoffs to try to win the cup and no cup has yet been awarded, I would say the playoff line is a pretty obvious piece of evidence for either side to use, as you have been doing for the last 2 pages when bringing up flawed pace arguments. I'm not seeing how any goalposts were moved.

 

[Czechboy]

They are top 5 in corsi %, shots for%, expected goals %, etc etc.

On the entire season?

 

[Oilslick941611]

Yeah, but the Oilers winning their next 2 games alters their pace. They lose the next 2 after that and the pace remains the same.

I'm only speaking to their pace today - I expect it to improve after the trade deadline.

My only argument this whole thread was that because of the hole they dug, they are now pushing for a wildcard spot instead of top 3 in the Pacific.

but thats dumb. You're claiming the pace is a fact, it's not, it's a guide that changes day to day. Also being in a wild card spot doesn't preclude them winning a cup, Saying they are a wildcard team doesn't equal bust until they lose in the playoffs. ( or don't make the playoffs) Your are being incredible stupid and obtuse here trying to rile oiler fans up but your arguments are so stupid its laughable.

 

[Divine]

Yes, let us read the OP's argument:

It's quite literally just the word "thoughts". Please explain how that amounts to any sort of argument by the OP.

The OIlers introducing their cup or bust expectations suggesting anything other than a cup is a bust has exactly what to do with anything on Oct 24, 2023 when this thread was made? Was the cup awarded on Oct 23, 2023? Or the 24th? Has it been awarded as of today?

The answer to those rhetorical questions is quite obviously no. So how does the season look more bust than cup at that point in time? Could it have been because the team was falling into the abyss and looked like they would quickly have no hope of qualifying for the playoffs where they could challenge for the cup?

Given that you need to make the playoffs to try to win the cup and no cup has yet been awarded, I would say the playoff line is a pretty obvious piece of evidence for either side to use, as you have been doing for the last 2 pages when bringing up flawed pace arguments. I'm not seeing how any goalposts were moved.

Did you read the title?

Starting to look more Bust than Cup - is that inaccurate if it's this or that? I don't think it's unreasonable to say a team under .500 is looking more likely to not win the Cup than win it. He didn't label them a bust - simply said it's looking like it, which it is.

 

[Divine]

but thats dumb. You're claiming the pace is a fact, it's not, it's a guide that changes day to day. Also being in a wild card spot doesn't preclude them winning a cup, Saying they are a wildcard team doesn't equal bust until they lose in the playoffs. ( or don't make the playoffs) Your are being incredible stupid and obtuse here trying to rile oiler fans up but your arguments are so stupid its laughable.

I don't think you understand my argument.

I'm arguing they might not make the playoffs. The posters here seem to argue that the playoffs are a certainty - they are not. If they make the playoffs, I am predicting they do so as a wildcard team and I don't think they win the first round against a division winner.

Could they win the Cup? Sure. Am I going to bet money on it? No... but you can!

 

[Love]

Yes, let us read the OP's argument:

It's quite literally just the word "thoughts". Please explain how that amounts to any sort of argument by the OP.

The OIlers introducing their cup or bust expectations, suggesting anything other than a cup is a bust, has exactly what to do with anything on Oct 24, 2023, when this thread was made? Was the cup awarded on Oct 23, 2023? Or the 24th? Has it been awarded as of today?

The answer to those rhetorical questions is quite obviously no. So how did the season look more bust than cup at that point in time? Could it have been because the team was falling into the abyss and looked like they would quickly have no hope of qualifying for the playoffs where they could challenge for the cup?

Given that you need to make the playoffs to try to win the cup and no cup has yet been awarded, I would say the playoff line is a pretty obvious piece of evidence for either side to use, as you have been doing for the last 2 pages when bringing up flawed pace arguments. I'm not seeing how any goalposts were moved.

1. I didn’t make an argument. Do I have to?
2. You don’t seem to understand that the current thread title is NOT the thread title I created. My original thread title asked a question. The title has been changed by mods like 5 times since I created it.