Oilers Lose 3-2 Still can't beat the West...

[Soundwave]

It's actually Arcobello that's replaced Gagner, and he's actually done a reasonably good job of it.

Some offensive production, but far better defensive play and face off percentage.

The mistake was keeping Leon up for the sake of keeping him up. They may as well have kept Lander up.

 

[Juxta Position]

Then make a trade if you can't sign anyone. Do something. Our center depth is indefensible.



Yeah, this has worked out great for our team, hasn't it? He's going to get eaten alive against the elite teams in the West. There's only the unhealthy culture of losing with the Oilers. You can even see in his game that he has no confidence.

Because the Prince Albert raiders culture is much better at least in edmonton he can work on making plays at the NHL level, not playing way below his skill level on a garbage team in the WHL.

 

[Soundwave]

Because the Prince Albert raiders culture is much better at least in edmonton he can work on making plays at the NHL level, not playing way below his skill level on a garbage team in the WHL.

Can't he force a trade out of Prince Albert?

I think junior would be better for him because his skating is not going to get better this way (overwhelmed at the NHL level). Playing a lighter junior schedule at least he would have more time to work on his skating after practice.

 

[guymez]

It's actually Arcobello that's replaced Gagner, and he's actually done a reasonably good job of it.

Some offensive production, but far better defensive play and face off percentage.

The mistake was keeping Leon up for the sake of keeping him up. They may as well have kept Lander up.

Draisaitl is a major liability. No doubt about that.

A veteran centre would help that situation out a lot. Then you can pick the opposition and sub Draisaitl in for Arco.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He won`t gain any confidence playing in junior anyway. He needs to play the NHL game to gain confidence at this level. He hasn`t been getting eaten alive yet.

Keyword is yet. And I'm pretty sure we sent Eberle back to rip up the junior leagues and WJC and that worked out pretty well for him.

Just make a trade that isnt a bad trade. Thats what you mean right?

Tell me how many trades that involve established NHL players happen before Christmas?

Unless you just started watching hockey you know that teams need to find out where they are at before those types of trades happen.

I get being unhappy but there isnt much substance to what you are saying here.

The Oilers were never in jeopardy of losing a playoff spot anyway because they just arent good enough yet. What sense does it make to rush a trade and sell low? Makes infinitely more sense to wait until a team 'needs' something you have...no?

I saw a couple trades being made during the summer (including one that involved our team even). How is every other team in this league able to upgrade besides this one? While I subscribe to the theory that Edmonton isn't the cream of the crop in terms of destinations, they were still able to sign a few players. So why bother with Pouliot (who was one of the first signed) when you could've made a move for a center? It doesn't make any sense to me. And I understand that trades are exceedingly rare but I mean you look at the Kings who are right up against it. Couldn't you help that team? How are the Isles able to upgrade in so many positions where we can barely upgrade in one?

So do you think people in this forum are overreacting?

I'm fully on the "Fire all management" bandwagon. I think something needs to be done because this team just keeps losing and the goofs up top keep thinking everything is okay.

I'm not entirely sure we are missing anything with Gagner gone. Maybe, I guess.

That's not the point. The point is we created a hole and never filled it. That's what stupid management does.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Then make a trade. Pick the scraps of a cap strapped team.

I don't like defending MacT, but I think he has shown that he isn't afraid to make a trade when one is available. This isn't an EA Sports game, if no team is trading any centers for a reasonable return, then trading for one isn't an option. If you were to criticize MacT for not making the Boychuk deal, I agree with you 100%, but to scream "make a trade" when we don't know who is available and who isn't is a bit ridiculous.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Because the Prince Albert raiders culture is much better at least in edmonton he can work on making plays at the NHL level, not playing way below his skill level on a garbage team in the WHL.

I'm sure losing almost every game is great for his confidence level.

 

[Marc08]

Keyword is yet. And I'm pretty sure we sent Eberle back to rip up the junior leagues and WJC and that worked out pretty well for him.



I saw a couple trades being made during the summer (including one that involved our team even). How is every other team in this league able to upgrade besides this one? While I subscribe to the theory that Edmonton isn't the cream of the crop in terms of destinations, they were still able to sign a few players. So why bother with Pouliot (who was one of the first signed) when you could've made a move for a center? It doesn't make any sense to me. And I understand that trades are exceedingly rare but I mean you look at the Kings who are right up against it. Couldn't you help that team? How are the Isles able to upgrade in so many positions where we can barely upgrade in one?




I'm fully on the "Fire all management" bandwagon. I think something needs to be done because this team just keeps losing and the goofs up top keep thinking everything is okay.



That's not the point. The point is we created a hole and never filled it. That's what stupid management does.

Didn't some people in this forum are stupid when they want Gagner out?

 

[guymez]

I saw a couple trades being made during the summer (including one that involved our team even). How is every other team in this league able to upgrade besides this one? While I subscribe to the theory that Edmonton isn't the cream of the crop in terms of destinations, they were still able to sign a few players. So why bother with Pouliot (who was one of the first signed) when you could've made a move for a center? It doesn't make any sense to me. And I understand that trades are exceedingly rare but I mean you look at the Kings who are right up against it. Couldn't you help that team? How are the Isles able to upgrade in so many positions where we can barely upgrade in one?

Well...so you have moved from your firm and staunchly defended position of 'no one will come to Edmonton' to 'Edmonton isnt the cream of the crop'. Thats some progress I guess.

Why the change?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I don't like defending MacT, but I think he has shown that he isn't afraid to make a trade when one is available. This isn't an EA Sports game, if no team is trading any centers for a reasonable return, then trading for one isn't an option. If you were to criticize MacT for not making the Boychuk deal, I agree with you 100%, but to scream "make a trade" when we don't know who is available and who isn't is a bit ridiculous.

I get that trades don't happen every day and most teams are afraid to, but he could've made a play for Boychuk and Leddy in addition to the Fayne signing and suddenly our defense is decent looking.

And yes centers are a hot commodity but I mean how do you stand by and do nothing? And in fact make it worse by trading Gagner away?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Well...so you have moved from your firm and staunchly defended position of 'no one will come to Edmonton' to 'Edmonton isnt the cream of the crop'. Thats some progress I guess.

Why the change?

I use that term pretty loosely. We're still probably 29th in destinations.

It's just extremely frustrating to see teams lapping us when we're pulling out of the starting line. I know the job of a GM isn't easy but we're looking up at almost every team in the West (save Colorado), all who seem to find solutions whereas we can't even seem to find one. Our goalies are still questionable, our defense is still suspect, our forwards are still average at best, our coaching is horrendous, our management is not very good...

 

[ManofSteel55]

Keyword is yet. And I'm pretty sure we sent Eberle back to rip up the junior leagues and WJC and that worked out pretty well for him.

So you have a crystal ball?

Eberle was a completely different player. He had a lot more work that needed to be done that could actually have been done in junior. Not to mention that he wasn't physically ready.

Hall and Nuge didn't go down, and they are our best players now. Comparing Draisaitl to any of them is using flawed logic. The only real work he needs is in reading the NHL game, and skating at an NHL level. Going to junior wouldn't give him any help in those areas.

 

[Philly85*]

boy it would be nice if they could get a bonafide #2 centre and maybe a bit more grit in their top 9.

anyways I wasn't expecting a win and thought they showed some good battle and effort the last 2 periods.

poor goaltending by fasth had the whole team down... I mean confidence wise, had everyone scrambling... coulda woulda shoulda probably salvaged at least a point out of that game.

I'm taking things game to game and after tonight I don't feel so bad. Moving on, gotta beat PHX.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So you have a crystal ball?

Eberle was a completely different player. He had a lot more work that needed to be done that could actually have been done in junior. Not to mention that he wasn't physically ready.

Hall and Nuge didn't go down, and they are our best players now. Comparing Draisaitl to any of them is using flawed logic. The only real work he needs is in reading the NHL game, and skating at an NHL level. Going to junior wouldn't give him any help in those areas.

I don't have a crystal ball, but most teams that want to develop players let them do so in the juniors or minors. Throwing rookies to the wolves has kept us near the bottom of the league for awhile now. I mean Draisatl has less goals than most of the other forwards on the team. Sending him back to get some confidence ripping up the juniors would be a good thing for him instead of having him suffering through all the losing he'll be doing up here.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I get that trades don't happen every day and most teams are afraid to, but he could've made a play for Boychuk and Leddy in addition to the Fayne signing and suddenly our defense is decent looking.

And yes centers are a hot commodity but I mean how do you stand by and do nothing? And in fact make it worse by trading Gagner away?

Gagner basically lost his spot on this team to Arcobello after the **** show his last season was. I know he was injured, but there was always an excuse. And Arcobello is actually a better player than Gagner is, so in that regard its a side step at worst.

You are making it sound like MacT didn't try to get another center. You don't know how many calls he made, or which free agents he made offers too.

As per Boychuk and Leddy, I agree on Boychuk, we need a guy like him. I don't agree on Leddy, the only defensemen that he is clearly better than on our team is Ference and Nikitin. Not much point in getting another 2nd pairing defenseman when that's what we already have.

 

[dobiezeke*]

So you have a crystal ball?

Eberle was a completely different player. He had a lot more work that needed to be done that could actually have been done in junior. Not to mention that he wasn't physically ready.

Hall and Nuge didn't go down, and they are our best players now. Comparing Draisaitl to any of them is using flawed logic. The only real work he needs is in reading the NHL game, and skating at an NHL level. Going to junior wouldn't give him any help in those areas.

How is playing 7 minutes of sheltered time working out for his skating or reading the NHL game?

 

[guymez]

I use that term pretty loosely. We're still probably 29th in destinations.

It's just extremely frustrating to see teams lapping us when we're pulling out of the starting line. I know the job of a GM isn't easy but we're looking up at almost every team in the West (save Colorado), all who seem to find solutions whereas we can't even seem to find one. Our goalies are still questionable, our defense is still suspect, our forwards are still average at best, our coaching is horrendous, our management is not very good...

Suggesting that Edmonton is 29th in destinations should shed a different light on things.

I get thats its frustrating but there is lots of season left. This team wasnt making the playoffs anyway which is why I have such a hard time understanding the over the top ***** fest.

Progress is what I was hoping for and I am seeing some of that. The Oilers have lots of depth on the wing and some defenisve prospects so that tells me that they have some trade options.

If MacT hasnt done something by February then I will join you in bashing the progress.

 

[Marc08]

I don't have a crystal ball, but most teams that want to develop players let them do so in the juniors or minors. Throwing rookies to the wolves has kept us near the bottom of the league for awhile now. I mean Draisatl has less goals than most of the other forwards on the team. Sending him back to get some confidence ripping up the juniors would be a good thing for him instead of having him suffering through all the losing he'll be doing up here.

Do you think Joe Thornton should've not played in the NHL full time at age 18?

 

[dobiezeke*]

Gagner basically lost his spot on this team to Arcobello after the **** show his last season was. I know he was injured, but there was always an excuse. And Arcobello is actually a better player than Gagner is, so in that regard its a side step at worst.

You are making it sound like MacT didn't try to get another center. You don't know how many calls he made, or which free agents he made offers too.

As per Boychuk and Leddy, I agree on Boychuk, we need a guy like him. I don't agree on Leddy, the only defensemen that he is clearly better than on our team is Ference and Nikitin. Not much point in getting another 2nd pairing defenseman when that's what we already have.

You contradict yourself - Nikitin is our top defense pairing. And has looked like a bottom defence.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Gagner basically lost his spot on this team to Arcobello after the **** show his last season was. I know he was injured, but there was always an excuse. And Arcobello is actually a better player than Gagner is, so in that regard its a side step at worst.

You are making it sound like MacT didn't try to get another center. You don't know how many calls he made, or which free agents he made offers too.

As per Boychuk and Leddy, I agree on Boychuk, we need a guy like him. I don't agree on Leddy, the only defensemen that he is clearly better than on our team is Ference and Nikitin. Not much point in getting another 2nd pairing defenseman when that's what we already have.

Arcobello should not be here. Period. Better than Gagner or not, it wasn't hard to be better than him last season. And he was pretty poor this game (against a Western opponent, so most Oilers are bad).

And I'm sure MacT tried, but trying doesn't get you far in that business. Either you do or you don't. I mean we tried to get Marian Hossa too and that didn't work out.

And the fact he's still going with Eakins only further proves his incompetence. His record against the West is 15-37-6. Krueger had more wins against the West in the lockout shortened year than Eakins has had in his entire tenure. Why is he still here? He's failed. Time to admit that failure and move on.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I don't have a crystal ball, but most teams that want to develop players let them do so in the juniors or minors. Throwing rookies to the wolves has kept us near the bottom of the league for awhile now. I mean Draisatl has less goals than most of the other forwards on the team. Sending him back to get some confidence ripping up the juniors would be a good thing for him instead of having him suffering through all the losing he'll be doing up here.

Prince Albert is an awful WHL team, and has had all sorts of weird stuff going on this season, it isn't a healthy place to send a guy to develop. He would be losing in the WHL instead of losing in the NHL, and wouldn't be getting the experience he needs to develop an actual NHL game. Playing against opposition that is far inferior to you and below what your playing level is also is a horrible idea, as it can get a player complacent. Draisaitl is playing 4th line in terms of minutes, him piling up big numbers this year isn't that important. What is important is that he is experiencing the NHL type game so he knows how he needs to grow his game to be successful.

And bringing our NHL players up as young players certainly is not why this team is bad. It is awful because MacT and Tambo before him have not brought in the right supporting players and veterans to make us a well balanced team. Plus, you know, the awful defense and goaltending. It isn`t because we kept Hall or Nuge up as 18 year olds.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Suggesting that Edmonton is 29th in destinations should shed a different light on things.

I get thats its frustrating but there is lots of season left. This team wasnt making the playoffs anyway which is why I have such a hard time understanding the over the top ***** fest.

Progress is what I was hoping for and I am seeing some of that. The Oilers have lots of depth on the wing and some defenisve prospects so that tells me that they have some trade options.

If MacT hasnt done something by February then I will join you in bashing the progress.

The season has already all but slipped away at this point. The playoffs are well out of reach, and I don't suspect the Avs will stay behind us forever, as much as I would like them too.

Speaking of teams that were behind us, the Stars made a trade today... So there is a market. I don't know what MacT's waiting for because we're still losing.

Do you think Joe Thornton should've not played in the NHL full time at age 18?

Joe Thornton was also a first overall pick, kind of a different pedigree and also a different era.

 

[guymez]

Arcobello should not be here. Period. Better than Gagner or not, it wasn't hard to be better than him last season. And he was pretty poor this game (against a Western opponent, so most Oilers are bad).

And I'm sure MacT tried, but trying doesn't get you far in that business. Either you do or you don't. I mean we tried to get Marian Hossa too and that didn't work out.

And the fact he's still going with Eakins only further proves his incompetence. His record against the West is 15-37-6. Krueger had more wins against the West in the lockout shortened year than Eakins has had in his entire tenure. Why is he still here? He's failed. Time to admit that failure and move on.

Why should Arco not be here?

He is clearly pulling his weight...not sure what your issue is here. You want Gagner back but yet you crap all over Arco.

Kind of duplicitous isnt it?

 

[Marc08]

The season has already all but slipped away at this point. The playoffs are well out of reach, and I don't suspect the Avs will stay behind us forever, as much as I would like them too.

Speaking of teams that were behind us, the Stars made a trade today... So there is a market. I don't know what MacT's waiting for because we're still losing.



Joe Thornton was also a first overall pick, kind of a different pedigree and also a different era.

Yes and Thornton played poorly in his rookie season. A lot worse than Draisaitl.

 

[guymez]

The season has already all but slipped away at this point. The playoffs are well out of reach, and I don't suspect the Avs will stay behind us forever, as much as I would like them too.

Here is a news flash for you...the playoffs were NEVER in reach.

How could you think otherwise?