Oilers Lose 3-2 Still can't beat the West...

[ManofSteel55]

Arcobello should not be here. Period. Better than Gagner or not, it wasn't hard to be better than him last season. And he was pretty poor this game (against a Western opponent, so most Oilers are bad).

And I'm sure MacT tried, but trying doesn't get you far in that business. Either you do or you don't. I mean we tried to get Marian Hossa too and that didn't work out.

And the fact he's still going with Eakins only further proves his incompetence. His record against the West is 15-37-6. Krueger had more wins against the West in the lockout shortened year than Eakins has had in his entire tenure. Why is he still here? He's failed. Time to admit that failure and move on.

This statement proves that I am arguing with someone who really has no clue what is going on. You can`t force guys to sign and come here. You can`t force other GM`s to trade guys here when they don`t want to. There haven`t been many centermen moved this summer, and MacT made a play on many of them. As in any business, you can`t make a deal if the other party doesn`t want to make one. Does it suck that it turned out that way? Of course it does, but changing your statement from "MacT didn't try to get us a new center" to "MacT couldn't get us a new center" is really changing the entire conversation and debate. Yes, MacT's failure to get a center is not good. It is a symptom of a larger problem (ie, the way this organization is seen by other teams). But it doesn't change the fact that you just can't force a move that isn't available.

 

[Marc08]

Why should Arco not be here?

He is clearly pulling his weight...not sure what your issue is here. You want Gagner back but yet you crap all over Arco.

Kind of duplicitous isnt it?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Prince Albert is an awful WHL team, and has had all sorts of weird stuff going on this season, it isn't a healthy place to send a guy to develop. He would be losing in the WHL instead of losing in the NHL, and wouldn't be getting the experience he needs to develop an actual NHL game. Playing against opposition that is far inferior to you and below what your playing level is also is a horrible idea, as it can get a player complacent. Draisaitl is playing 4th line in terms of minutes, him piling up big numbers this year isn't that important. What is important is that he is experiencing the NHL type game so he knows how he needs to grow his game to be successful.

And bringing our NHL players up as young players certainly is not why this team is bad. It is awful because MacT and Tambo before him have not brought in the right supporting players and veterans to make us a well balanced team. Plus, you know, the awful defense and goaltending. It isn`t because we kept Hall or Nuge up as 18 year olds.

And the Oilers are an awful NHL team, with many issues and a VERY angry fanbase that's on the verge of shipping the entire organization out of town. He's had his cup of coffee and seen what the game is all about, time for him to regain his confidence.

You are right about why the Oilers are bad but it was impossible to send RNH back (he was ripping it up) and Hall was still a #1 pick and the fans would've rioted.

No it's not the reason we're bad but he's not making this team better and this team isn't winning with him. I don't want to see him adapt the losing culuture the Oilers have, and I definitely don't want to see him try to execute our failure of a system.

Get him away from this team. They are not going to win or build his confidence.

 

[guymez]

Okay...its late for me...what am I missing here?

 

[dobiezeke*]

Do you think Joe Thornton should've not played in the NHL full time at age 18?

Milan Lucic didn't come up to the Bruins until he had played three years of junior...

Don't see how another year would hurt Drai.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The season has already all but slipped away at this point. The playoffs are well out of reach, and I don't suspect the Avs will stay behind us forever, as much as I would like them too.

Speaking of teams that were behind us, the Stars made a trade today... So there is a market. I don't know what MacT's waiting for because we're still losing.



Joe Thornton was also a first overall pick, kind of a different pedigree and also a different era.

Are you seriously trying to claim that Dallas trading an over the hill, overpaid defenseman for an aging, over the hill, overpaid 4th line winger shows that there is any sort of market out there for a trade that will improve this team? Moen is worse than all of our wingers, and Gonchar would be our 6th defenseman at best. That trade addressed none of the Oilers needs, so how can you claim that because that trade happened, we can make one today that fixes our problems?

 

[nexttothemoon]

Last 98 Oiler games under Tambellini/Krueger/Renney (includes the final 8 games of 12/13 after Tambo was fired):

37-47-14

88 points in 98 games

250 goals for 286 goals against -36 goals differential




First 98 Oiler games under MacTavish/Eakins:

35-53-10

80 points in 98 games

243 goals for 324 goals against -81 goals differential





The results say it all.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Here is a news flash for you...the playoffs were NEVER in reach.

How could you think otherwise?

Well I was kind of hoping our season wouldn't be over before Remembrance Day. But it seems I was too optimistic.

Yes and Thornton played poorly in his rookie season. A lot worse than Draisaitl.

Let's not set a precedent for the kid to live up to. He also didn't play in every single game (55).

Why should Arco not be here?

He is clearly pulling his weight...not sure what your issue is here. You want Gagner back but yet you crap all over Arco.

Kind of duplicitous isnt it?

Again, I'm not saying I necessarily want him back, I'm saying it was a mistake to deal Gagner away and not replace him effectively. Arcobello had a poor game today (surprisingly it was against a Western Conference foe), and what I'm saying is that NHL teams employ NHL centers to play NHL games. Read me?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Milan Lucic didn't come up to the Bruins until he had played three years of junior...

Don't see how another year would hurt Drai.

Its been widely speculated that the Oilers didn't want Drai anywhere near the Raiders, as they have major concerns with how they develop players and how their team is run.

And it might not have hurt him to go back, but it also likely wouldn't help. He needs to get faster, and read NHL plays faster. Neither of those things will improve by playing against boys for another year or two.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Are you seriously trying to claim that Dallas trading an over the hill, overpaid defenseman for an aging, over the hill, overpaid 4th line winger shows that there is any sort of market out there for a trade that will improve this team? Moen is worse than all of our wingers, and Gonchar would be our 6th defenseman at best. That trade addressed none of the Oilers needs, so how can you claim that because that trade happened, we can make one today that fixes our problems?

I'm saying that teams are making trades now. No the trade that Dallas made wouldn't help us in any regard, I'm saying there's no excuse not to start looking. This team needs centers (and a coach) in the worst way.

This statement proves that I am arguing with someone who really has no clue what is going on. You can`t force guys to sign and come here. You can`t force other GM`s to trade guys here when they don`t want to. There haven`t been many centermen moved this summer, and MacT made a play on many of them. As in any business, you can`t make a deal if the other party doesn`t want to make one. Does it suck that it turned out that way? Of course it does, but changing your statement from "MacT didn't try to get us a new center" to "MacT couldn't get us a new center" is really changing the entire conversation and debate. Yes, MacT's failure to get a center is not good. It is a symptom of a larger problem (ie, the way this organization is seen by other teams). But it doesn't change the fact that you just can't force a move that isn't available.

Of course you can't force players to come here. I'm saying MacT "tried" to get people here doesn't really do much for me. I'm sure he was in on Statsny, and maybe even Richards too. I'm sure he tried to get other centers too. The fact of the matter is that he simply did not accomplish anything. Our center depth is still terrible.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Last 98 Oiler games under Tambellini/Krueger/Renney (includes the final 8 games of 12/13 after Tambo was fired):

37-47-14

88 points in 98 games

250 goals for 286 goals against -36 goals differential




First 98 Oiler games under MacTavish/Eakins:

35-53-10

80 points in 98 games

243 goals for 324 goals against -81 goals differential





The results say it all.

Yeesh. Talk about putting the car in reverse.

 

[dobiezeke*]

Well I was kind of hoping our season wouldn't be over before Remembrance Day. But it seems I was too optimistic.



Let's not set a precedent for the kid to live up to. He also didn't play in every single game (55).



Again, I'm not saying I necessarily want him back, I'm saying it was a mistake to deal Gagner away and not replace him effectively. Arcobello had a poor game today (surprisingly it was against a Western Conference foe), and what I'm saying is that NHL teams employ NHL centers to play NHL games. Read me?

Don't disagree Drai shouldn't be with the big club. Will disagree that I would take Arcobello's 7 points over the ineptness Gagner has shown with the Coyotes.

 

[ManofSteel55]

And the Oilers are an awful NHL team, with many issues and a VERY angry fanbase that's on the verge of shipping the entire organization out of town. He's had his cup of coffee and seen what the game is all about, time for him to regain his confidence.

You are right about why the Oilers are bad but it was impossible to send RNH back (he was ripping it up) and Hall was still a #1 pick and the fans would've rioted.

No it's not the reason we're bad but he's not making this team better and this team isn't winning with him. I don't want to see him adapt the losing culuture the Oilers have, and I definitely don't want to see him try to execute our failure of a system.

Get him away from this team. They are not going to win or build his confidence.

I already addressed most of these concerns. Stop talking in circles.

Prince Albert isn't winning either, and has had a losing culture for years. He can get used to losing in junior just as easily as he can here. What he needs, to improve his game, is not more confidence. It is experience playing against NHL players. Playing against junior boys won't help him develop the skills that he needs to improve to become a good NHL player.

And for the record, sending him back means we play Will Acton. Who sucks. And because you can't force a trade that isn't there, Draisaitl is still our best option, so its best to keep him up here, where he can play nightly, against men, rather than send him back.

 

[guymez]

Again, I'm not saying I necessarily want him back, I'm saying it was a mistake to deal Gagner away and not replace him effectively. Arcobello had a poor game today (surprisingly it was against a Western Conference foe), and what I'm saying is that NHL teams employ NHL centers to play NHL games. Read me?

So please explain how having Gagner here and Arco gone helps that cause?

 

[KneeOnKnee]

This is the team I see, they are improved from last season as they can give pushback rather than falling apart in the third period, Eberle and Hopkins have matured considerably, the team is learning to stay calm and stick to the system that works for them, once they begin rolling that is, lack of confidence still lurks around the team when they been facing opponents that have done nothing but roll over them year after year, but are sick as anyone to be labelled as a chronic basement dweller and its showing on the ice. To me at least that is progress, for awhile there I thought this game was going to be another 60 minute penalty kill type of game for them as the Predators were dominating in the first period.

I was also glad to see the team figure out a way to break through the Predators system to get to the net, although it was only 40 minutes, something I have not seen from them in a long time, if they don't lose heart and stick to the system that seems to work for them, I predict a lot more success than last year, progress is progress in my eyes, I think they will move up the standings this year and at least stay within striking distance of a playoff spot. They have a structure going and began attacking with speed, knowing when to dump the puck or carry it into the offensive zone. They are not the same fall apart rabbit team.

PS. Fall apart rabbit is a animated character, I forgot from which movie. I am also a little buzzed from beer as of this writing.

 

[TheNumber4]

Its been widely speculated that the Oilers didn't want Drai anywhere near the Raiders, as they have major concerns with how they develop players and how their team is run.

I've never heard of this speculation. Source?

 

[guymez]

I've never heard of this speculation. Source?

Its been mentioned by Stauffer on a few occasions.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

So please explain how having Gagner here and Arco gone helps that cause?

MacT could've gone out and signed a decent center or traded for one instead of slotting Arcobello and Draisatl as our 2/3C. This is not how NHL teams operate. They usually have a plan to fill holes. Not create them then leave them.

Look at this team as a whole, guymez. There are still holes everywhere despite having over a year to work with the team, meanwhile Calgary and Vancouver managed to shore up their goaltending in a single off-season.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I'm saying that teams are making trades now. No the trade that Dallas made wouldn't help us in any regard, I'm saying there's no excuse not to start looking. This team needs centers (and a coach) in the worst way.

Do you have a log of MacT's phone calls? How do you know he isn't looking? Teams trading their garbage players doesn't signify that other teams might be willing to trade players that would help us. The Dallas-Montreal trade was simply two teams trading players they didn`t want anymore. It`s a no risk deal for both sides. Unless you can show me a team that has made an NHL center available via trade for a price that we can reach without making us worse, then its just pointless whining and moaning at this point.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This is the team I see, they are improved from last season as they can give pushback rather than falling apart in the third period, Eberle and Hopkins have matured considerably, the team is learning to stay calm and stick to the system that works for them, once they begin rolling that is, lack of confidence still lurks around the team when they been facing opponents that have done nothing but roll over them year after year, but are sick as anyone to be labelled as a chronic basement dweller and its showing on the ice. To me at least that is progress, for awhile there I thought this game was going to be another 60 minute penalty kill type of game for them as the Predators were dominating in the first period.

I was also glad to see the team figure out a way to break through the Predators system to get to the net, although it was only 40 minutes, something I have not seen from them in a long time, if they don't lose heart and stick to the system that seems to work for them, I predict a lot more success than last year, progress is progress in my eyes, I think they will move up the standings this year and at least stay within striking distance of a playoff spot. They have a structure going and began attacking with speed, knowing when to dump the puck or carry it into the offensive zone. They are not the same fall apart rabbit team.

PS. Fall apart rabbit is a animated character, I forgot from which movie. I am also a little buzzed from beer as of this writing.

Bonkers, that quirky Disney animated series, pretty sure.

 

[ManofSteel55]

MacT could've gone out and signed a decent center or traded for one instead of slotting Arcobello and Draisatl as our 2/3C. This is not how NHL teams operate. They usually have a plan to fill holes. Not create them then leave them.

Look at this team as a whole, guymez. There are still holes everywhere despite having over a year to work with the team, meanwhile Calgary and Vancouver managed to shore up their goaltending in a single off-season.

You keep saying this, but you don`t give any examples of guys we could have traded for, and the guys you suggested we sign didn`t want to sign here. You obviously don`t know how NHL teams operate.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Do you have a log of MacT's phone calls? How do you know he isn't looking? Teams trading their garbage players doesn't signify that other teams might be willing to trade players that would help us. The Dallas-Montreal trade was simply two teams trading players they didn`t want anymore. It`s a no risk deal for both sides. Unless you can show me a team that has made an NHL center available via trade for a price that we can reach without making us worse, then its just pointless whining and moaning at this point.

No, I don't. I'm sure he's working the phones. But until something gets done (and believe me, something needs to happen with this team), this team is still the team it is. I don't expect him to land Weber, but there were a lot of rumours surrounding the Wild's Brodziak. He couldn't offer them a 5th and a prospect for his services?

 

[FunkyChicken]

Do you think Joe Thornton should've not played in the NHL full time at age 18?

No, he should not have.
Thornton is one of the few exceptions to players making it despite being rushed in. If this was the norm, we wouldn't have to be digging so far in the past for examples.

 

[guymez]

MacT could've gone out and signed a decent center or traded for one instead of slotting Arcobello and Draisatl as our 2/3C. This is not how NHL teams operate. They usually have a plan to fill holes. Not create them then leave them.

Look at this team as a whole, guymez. There are still holes everywhere despite having over a year to work with the team, meanwhile Calgary and Vancouver managed to shore up their goaltending in a single off-season.

You are still not explaining how having Gagner here and not Arco would have been a good idea.

As for the holes.. I have been saying as much since the season started.

I dont care what Calgary and Vancouver are doing....the difference between your position and mine is that I dont have a problem with waiting for the right deal.

Scrivens and Fasth may work out they may not...too soon to tell.

There is no rush at this point to make a deal. Better to be smart as opposed to allowing frustration to make the decisions for you.

 

[Mr Positive]

Can we please do something about Nikitin? The guy is terrible. At this point the only possible reason we could have to want to keep him is for his shot, but when he's bleeding chances against like this there is NO benefit.

I supported the signing to some degree at the time because we do need a shot back there. Right now it's looking like a 4.5 million dollar crater for this season and next. I wish we signed him 6 million for only 1 year now. I could see Eakins and MacT wanting this guy to stay to work out his issues and salvage the signing, but good leadership knows when to pull the plug and admit they were wrong.

Can we address his footspeed, or is that just a lost cause? It would be great to pull him out of the lineup and get him training on nothing but skating for a month or so. The added benefit is that he wouldn't be playing.