Confirmed with Link: Oilers Do Not Match Broberg ($4.58M X2) & Holloway ($2.29M x 2) Offer Sheets | Oilers acquire STL 3rd '28 & Paul Fischer for Futures

[Tobias Kahun]

Wow.
Thats some fine work Kenny.


Nurse has come to represent whats wrong with this team.
His contract has already made a mess of things but thats going to get serious by next (25/26) season.
This team had better win soon.

He didnt have enough money because he blew most of it on extending Kassian a month before that last bridge.

 

[guymez]

He didnt have enough money because he blew most of it on extending Kassian a month before that last bridge.

Shit...I had forgotten about that. Another Holland gem.

 

[North]

Wasn't Seth Jones signed just before Nurse for about the same money and that put pressure on Holland to do the same? Not excusing his action but just thinking why he'd do that contract. Nurse camp saying we want Seth Jones money.

Which is wild because regardless of what Seth Jones is now, at the time he was far more well regarded than Darnell.

 

[North]

Armstrong is already trying to ease expectations by referring to Holloway as someone who has top-9 forward potential and Broberg as someone with top-4 defenseman potential, but they don't need to play there right away.

Imagine going from solidifying a spot in the bottom six and playing spot duty with Leon Draisaitl to someone who has top 9 potential on St. Louis.

 

[McShogun99]

Imagine going from solidifying a spot in the bottom six and playing spot duty with Leon Draisaitl to someone who has top 9 potential on St. Louis.

Armstrong sold that snake oil to Broberg and Holloway but at least Broberg got paid. It will be interesting to see how the Blues use both players over the season.

 

[Spawn]

Which is wild because regardless of what Seth Jones is now, at the time he was far more well regarded than Darnell.

This isn’t true.

Nurse had just finished a season where he was 7th in Norris voting. He was +27 in 56 games, finished first in the league in goals for D-men at ES and 4th in the league for ES points for D-men and played almost 26 minutes a night.

Both contracts were awful the minute they were signed. But Nurse was a better dman at the time and has continued to be a better dman since.

 

[Oilhawks]

I wonder how many more pages of hand-wringing we can squeeze out of this one

 

[McDNicks17]

I wonder how many more pages of hand-wringing we can squeeze out of this one

We still need another 5k or so posts to pass the #FireChia thread for most replies all-time on HFOil.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Foegele played 70 more games over the period you are speaking about.

But thats part of the problem with Arviddson that I've been citing. That we won't be getting many games from the player and LA didn't either. he missed a ton of time there, including playoffs.

The sum of a players contribution is as important, his GP. You should want players that are healthy in the lineup.

I just thought it was interesting that Foegele had more EV goals here last 3 seasons than Arvie had in LA. People have this impression the latter is some kind of star player, and I think they feel that maybe on basis of just seeing him in playoffs against us.

When taking health into account Arviddson isn't even an improvement on Foegele here. Arvie was more important in LA where he would get first unit PP. They needed his skill there. We don't here.

 

[Spawn]

But thats part of the problem with Arviddson that I've been citing. That we won't be getting many games from the player and LA didn't either. he missed a ton of time there, including playoffs.

The sum of a players contribution is as important, his GP. You should want players that are healthy in the lineup.

I just thought it was interesting that Foegele had more EV goals here last 3 seasons than Arvie had in LA. People have this impression the latter is some kind of star player, and I think they feel that maybe on basis of just seeing him in playoffs against us.

When taking health into account Arviddson isn't even an improvement on Foegele here. Arvie was more important in LA where he would get first unit PP. They needed his skill there. We don't here.

No one is calling Arvidsson a star. He was given low end 2nd line money to be a 2nd line player here.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This isn’t true.

Nurse had just finished a season where he was 7th in Norris voting. He was +27 in 56 games, finished first in the league in goals for D-men at ES and 4th in the league for ES points for D-men and played almost 26 minutes a night.

Both contracts were awful the minute they were signed. But Nurse was a better dman at the time and has continued to be a better dman since.

Better than Seth Jones is like winning a turtle derby. Just saying.

jk around. Your post is closer to the truth and Nurse held value at the time. He had done well prior to contract and unfortunately its that worst of things, a player playing big for contract and then not during it.

 

[Pavel10]

This isn’t true.

Nurse had just finished a season where he was 7th in Norris voting. He was +27 in 56 games, finished first in the league in goals for D-men at ES and 4th in the league for ES points for D-men and played almost 26 minutes a night.

Both contracts were awful the minute they were signed. But Nurse was a better dman at the time and has continued to be a better dman since.

Also unlike Holland it appears Bowman appears to have actually learned soenthing from his mistakes.

Holland was always with contacts in Detroit, awful here and I have no doubt he would have moved heaven and earth to resign his draft prospects, Broberg and Holloway.

 

[Mr Positive]

Podkolzin isn't even an NHL player now. Last seen he's been a bust for the last two years. He isn't even prominent in AHL. Unless he has a complete turn around he doesn't even make the club.

Arvidsson is injured goods. Can barely play much now. Missed almost all of last season and was still getting hurt and having recurring problems.

We're not getting prime Arvie or anything close to that. We're getting the current version. You never mentioned that Kane who has been prominent here for years is now probably done or close to it. That makes it a saw off with now having either Skinner or Arvie. Frankly Kane was a better player than either.

Fact of the matter is we've lost several forwards from last cup run and we've gained around 2 and then others were hoping for, or are prospects. Not immediate help now.

its kinda funny that now people are just loving the idea of Jeff Skinner being a savior He was common fodder here and around the league as one of the worst defensive forwards going and has had some complete head case seasons with clusterf*** GA. He's had some good seasons too but you never know with him which one you're getting. This being the case in Carolina and Buffalo.

Guy can score but I'm not a huge fan of his 200ft game. 22-23 was the only season among the last several where he actually helped to make a team better and actually bought in. usually he doesn't. The Normal Jeff Skinner mode is flirt with 20- 30 goals while being careful not to do anything else.

Skinner was so bad defensively last season he was off the chart.

View attachment 902517

Strange as it is Foegele had more EV goals last season than Skinner did. Skinner who was getting a lot of topsix. Plus consider Skinner was getting paid 9M to be that kind of terrible last season.

With Jeff Skinner, I'd take any stats on a bad team with a big grain of salt. For instance, with a bad team, they often find themselves down on the scoreboard because the ice is tilted against them. That can't be blamed on any single player. But when it happens then the team will look to offensive players to pot a few goals, and so you inevitably will see them cheating for offense. The Skinner types will be burned the most because most gambles don't work, as defense winning out is the default position. Just like pulling a goalie. It makes sense to go for it but the odds are it won't work

Personally I see the most important thing to be the core skills and how those skills complement their linemates. The defense issues can be fixed by a good team culture and good systems.

 

[guymez]

This isn’t true.

Nurse had just finished a season where he was 7th in Norris voting. He was +27 in 56 games, finished first in the league in goals for D-men at ES and 4th in the league for ES points for D-men and played almost 26 minutes a night.

Both contracts were awful the minute they were signed. But Nurse was a better dman at the time and has continued to be a better dman since.

Seth Jones finished in the top 10 in Norris voting for 2 years.
He still routinely has one of the highest TOI's on his team.
Both contracts are awful but Jones has been a better defender than Nurse.
Better offensive Dman as well...he certainly has a better shot than Nurse.
Jones also didnt have the benefit of playing with the best offensive player in the world which has surely inflated Nurses offensive numbers.

So Jones has struggled too but despite that he is still an all around better Dman than Nurse.

 

[McShogun99]

I’ve never seen a player with so many bad bounces for goals against last season than Nurse. He’d be doing the right thing and the puck would double bounce off his skate and in. That has to effect someone’s confidence.

He never will be and never was a 9 million dollar Dman but he was a 7 million dollar Dman and hopefully can refund that form.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Seth Jones finished in the top 10 in Norris voting for 2 years.
He still routinely has one of the highest TOI's on his team.
Both contracts are awful but Jones has been a better defender than Nurse.
Better offensive Dman as well...he certainly has a better shot than Nurse.
Jones also didnt have the benefit of playing with the best offensive player in the world which has surely inflated Nurses offensive numbers.

So Jones has struggled too but despite that he is still an all around better Dman than Nurse.

Nurse would have a ton of minutes on chicago too.

 

[guymez]

Nurse would have a ton of minutes on chicago too.

Even when Bouchard and Ekholm werent here (and Nurse was a so called top pairing dman) Jones still had more TOI on his team.
I would trust Jones a lot more than Nurse on this team.

Its interesting to me that shortly after the Oilers started playing with more structure Nurse started to struggle.
Proabaly not a coincidence.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Even when Bouchard and Ekholm werent here (and Nurse was a so called top pairing dman) Jones still had more TOI on his team.
I would trust Jones a lot more than Nurse on this team.

Its interesting to me that shortly after the Oilers started playing with more structure Nurse started to struggle.
Proabaly not a coincidence.

Probably not a coincidence that this also happened when he stopped seeing more than 10% of his icetime with McDavid.

And Jones playing more minutes than Nurse is largely due to being force fed powerplay minutes.

This is the first year that Nurse has played fewer 5on5 minutes per game than Jones.

 

[Spawn]

Also unlike Holland it appears Bowman appears to have actually learned soenthing from his mistakes.

Holland was always with contacts in Detroit, awful here and I have no doubt he would have moved heaven and earth to resign his draft prospects, Broberg and Holloway.

I mean we have no idea if Bowman has learned anything from that mistake. It was basically the last noteworthy thing he did with Chicago.

 

[guymez]

Probably not a coincidence that this also happened when he stopped seeing more than 10% of his icetime with McDavid.

Less time with McDavid surely makes a difference.
Now he doesnt have McDavids offence to carry him. He also has to defend more because the other team has possesion more.
It really exposes his poor defensive processing. Impulsive is not a quality that makes for a good defender.

Its also entirely possibel as well that his skating hasnt dropped off (as I suggested earlier) but its his inability to make a proper defensive read quickly enough that makes it appear like he is slower.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Less time with McDavid surely makes a difference.
Now he doesnt have McDavids offence to carry him. He also has to defend more because the other team has possesion more.
It really exposes his poor defensive processing. Impulsive is not a quality that makes for a good defender.

I think he does have poor defensive processing, thats why he needs a partner who can help get to pucks and moving it the right way, which is the last thing Ceci can do.

 

[guymez]

I think he does have poor defensive processing, thats why he needs a partner who can help get to pucks and moving it the right way, which is the last thing Ceci can do.

Ceci wasnt a good partner for him (we certainly agree there) but Ceci only made a little over $3M.

Its a big ask to find a D partner that can compensate for Nurses deficiencies and still be cheap enough to offset Nurses contract.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Ceci wasnt a good partner for him (we certainly agree there) but Ceci only made a little over $3M.

Its a big ask to find a D partner that can compensate for Nurses deficiencies and still be cheap enough to offset Nurses contract.

At his price tag you'd like to see him work with anyone, but thats not the case and he wont ever be able to offload it, so we just have to find someone who can work with him and maximize his ability.

Stecher looked good there in his 7 games last year, im curious to see how they look this year

 

[guymez]

At his price tag you'd like to see him work with anyone, but thats not the case and he wont ever be able to offload it, so we just have to find someone who can work with him and maximize his ability.

Stecher looked good there in his 7 games last year, im curious to see how they look this year

The thing is...what happens next season when Bouchard and Draisaitl get their new contracts?
Then the season after for McDavid?
The writing is on the wall...Bowman has to find a way to unload Nurse.
Even if they do find this magical player to put on his right side they just cant afford to carry him for much longer.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

The thing is...what happens next season when Bouchard and Draisaitl get their new contracts?
Then the season after for McDavid?
The writing is on the wall...Bowman has to find a way to unload Nurse.
Even if they do find this magical player to put on his right side they just cant afford to carry him for much longer.

Even if you wanted to pay the assets to move Nurse.

Which you dont.

He has a full NMC.

Hes not getting moved.