Speculation: Offseason Thread Part IV - Let's Make A Deal

[pld459666]

And I realize that and it may happen, he's still young and raw...but straight up for Boyle (or, as someone here said, MTL adding a 3rd...OK, then) isn't even really in the ballpark right now...McCarron is still a project, yes, but Boyle's a 4th liner and will always be a 4th liner; not really a fair tradeoff...anyways, not really my original point, so what reasonable offer would the Rangers ask for to move Boyle right now??...

So let me get this straight.

You want a realistic offer for a kid that is at minimum 3 years away from playing in the NHL (if ever) and you think that THAT is an overpaymeent for a LEGIT NHL'er?

I bash Boyle all the time, but the fact is, he's one of the better 4th liners in the game and a hell of a penalty killer.

McCarron MAY become better, but the odds that he does NOTHING in the NHL at all is just as great.

If I'm taking that risk, I want a 3rd to go along with it. Or I would prefer to keep the sure thing over a project like the McCarron.

This is from Hockeys Future.

McCarron is hulking forward with a long reach. He possesses decent skating for his size and though his overall game is pretty raw at this point, he should at least develop into a solid checking forward for the Canadiens, if not something much more.

When Brian Boyle got drafted, you could have probably written the same exact thing.

In fact, here you go. The Hockeys Future write up on Boyle in the Kings draft Review.

Brian Boyle (C), 1st Round #26 overall
6’7” 222, St. Sebastian’s (USHS)

With three first round selections, the Kings could afford to maybe take a bit of
a gamble. Early projections had Boyle taken in the second round, but the Kings
could not pass up on a kid with such good raw skills at that size.

Boyle registered 63 points in 31 games playing for St. Sebastian’s High School
in Massachusetts. He is a good skater with great hands and an innate offensive
understanding that is rare in prospects of his size. He is a superb athlete
having played baseball and basketball at St. Sebastian’s.

Boyle was invited to join the US Under-18 development program but decided to
attend Boston College in the fall and will likely see significant playing time
as a freshman.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/6176/kings2003_draft_review/#more-6176

 

[RangerBoy]

Franson wants big money which Leafs can't afford. Dreger speculates a prospect and pick for Franson. From: @DarrenDreger
Sent: Jul 26, 2013 12:49p

@mirtle. Don't have Leafs cap specifics in front of me, but, Franson at $4+ has to be reasoning behind trade consideration.

sent via Twitter for BlackBerry® in reply to @mirtle
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/360804130995978241

 

[pld459666]

Ultimately, you want Brian Boyle, you will have to pony up more than a project that is years away from possibly being what Boyle is today.

Otherwise, what's the sense for the Rangers? What's the incentive?

 

[RangerBoy]

Franson was arb eligible but he didn't file for some reason. Fraser has his arb hearing next week. Kadri is like Stepan. No arb rights.

 

[Trxjw]

$4M+ for Franson? That's lunacy.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

No tme.

MDZ for Wheeler is about right.

Not a fit for the Jets, but the value is there.

MDZ gets so crapped on by NYR fans.

A 23 year old 40+ point defenceman playing for one of the lowest scoring teams in the league.

Yeah, he's got no real value.

I'm already a Del Zotto supporter, but I never put this together. Thanks for the new bullet point I can throw around.

 

[Ola]

$4M+ for Franson? That's lunacy.

Yeah, Fransson signed a contract in Sweden without an out clause during the lockout last season. He became more or less the nr 6 D for his team.

His coach in the SEL said something like, "Fransson is a great player, if the game is about hitting people in the back".

Fransson is like a mix of Bickel and Sauer. Sauers body and Bickel's skill set...

 

[Ola]

We have a 23 year old who was 18th overall in defensive scoring in 11-12, and a 24 year old defender who has been top-10 in ES scoring among defensemen the last two years. How much more punch do we really hope to get from back there?

Richards is meaningless to have on the roster to begin with, IMO. His decision making is lousy and he's constantly making lazy plays on the power play. I think he's always been overrated on the PP as he's always had another elite passer on the unit with him. A RH shot is fine, but how about an established RH shot? Not someone who might end up as a #6 guy next fall if everything falls into place. Get someone with tangible NHL experience. Hell, go get Cody Franson for all I care, but that means that one of our current defensemen has to go. That's a lot of moving pieces just so we can add a RH shot to the point.

MDZ can open things up, but he isn't playing much. He also isn't nearly as effective on the off-wing.

McD, Staal, Girardi and co can't open things up.

People try to make McD something he is not. He can take another step offensively, and I hope he will with time. But he can't open things up. He isn't a very good offensive D at all.

We struggle a lot in NY to score goals. We get shut down completely for long stretches. A big reason for that is that when we use a D as an option, they are vey one dimensional. Compare us with Philly, we don't even remotely have a D with the ability to open things up as Kimmo Timmonen.

Ah, no point in arguing about this. I couldn't disagree more.

We haven't had a good offensive D in NY for years, many doesn't even know what a D like that is about.

Nobody would come up with the idea to replace Nash with Pyatt. But when it comes to a defender, you have to argue why Nash is better than Pyatt. You have to argue why there is a point in having a Nash. McD on D is offensively like Callahan is offensively as a forward. MDZ is like Stepan using the same analogy. If Callahan and Stepan is your best offensive weapons, anyone understands the need for an upgrade up front.

We need an offensive upgrade on the blueline. And the answer is certainly not Pyatt, eh sorry Cody Fransson lol.

 

[Josh3217]

Yeah, Fransson signed a contract in Sweden without an out clause during the lockout last season. He became more or less the nr 6 D for his team.

His coach in the SEL said something like, "Fransson is a great player, if the game is about hitting people in the back".

Fransson is like a mix of Bickel and Sauer. Sauers body and Bickel's skill set...

He scores 29pts in 45 games and then 6pts in 7 games and he has Bickel's skill set? Get real.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Wheeler was resigned to a 6 year $33.8 million contract.

 

[RangerBoy]

Winnipeg still has an arbitration case with Bogosian on Friday. He will come in at $3.5M-$4M. Winnipeg will be close to the upper limit after Bogosian. Wheeler had an arbitration case this Monday. The briefs were due this morning. 48 hours. Gagner is the only arbitration case to exchange briefs. Zuccrello briefs are due on Monday morning. The Rangers and Zuccarello have 48 hours to settle without briefs being exchanged. Wednesday at nine is the hearing. I read yesterday 3 cases out 66 in the last 3 years went to the arbitrator. Dubinsky was settled right before the hearing. Both sides asked for more time to get a deal. Callahan was done the day before the hearing. If Gorton can get Zuccarello at $1.25M-$1.4M,the Rangers trade Boyle or Pyatt. They can give Stepan 5 years at around $3.85M. Stepan's agency did the contracts for Oshie and Simmonds. Those involve multiple group 3 years. Oshie is at $4.175M. Simmonds at under $4M. Its their 3rd contract. A 5 year deal for Stepan includes one year at group 3. McD has a cap hit of $4.7M includes 3 years of group 3.

 

[GAGLine]

Winnipeg still has an arbitration case with Bogosian on Friday. He will come in at $3.5M-$4M. Winnipeg will be close to the upper limit after Bogosian. Wheeler had an arbitration case this Monday. The briefs were due this morning. 48 hours. Gagner is the only arbitration case to exchange briefs. Zuccrello briefs are due on Monday morning. The Rangers and Zuccarello have 48 hours to settle without briefs being exchanged. Wednesday at nine is the hearing. I read yesterday 3 cases out 66 in the last 3 years went to the arbitrator. Dubinsky was settled right before the hearing. Both sides asked for more time to get a deal. Callahan was done the day before the hearing. If Gorton can get Zuccarello at $1.25M-$1.4M,the Rangers trade Boyle or Pyatt. They can give Stepan 5 years at around $3.85M. Stepan's agency did the contracts for Oshie and Simmonds. Those involve multiple group 3 years. Oshie is at $4.175M. Simmonds at under $4M. Its their 3rd contract. A 5 year deal for Stepan includes one year at group 3. McD has a cap hit of $4.7M includes 3 years of group 3.

Trading Pyatt would really clear things up. I'd rather see him go than Boyle, but Boyle would be easier to trade.

Get Zucc done then we have a month and a half to figure out the rest.

 

[Ola]

He scores 29pts in 45 games and then 6pts in 7 games and he has Bickel's skill set? Get real.

Everyone knows that he got a heavy shot and that he can use his shot too. I wasn't commenting about his shot.

He is not a good hockey player at all. He had problems keeping a regular spot in the SEL.

Another player that struggled a ton in the SEL while having great stats in the NHL is Jonathan Cheechoo. He scored 5+0 in 20 games. The same guy who scored 56 goals in the NHL. More or less a few years later, he was out of the league.

You just can't only watch stats. Toronto has not been sold on Franson. He didn't get a one year contract until before January. Like I said, he thought he wouldnt get a NHL contract at all last season and signed in the SEL without an out clause, he wouldn't have played for Toronto last season unless his SEL team had agreed to release him.

I think it's fair to compare him with Pyatt. A player like Pyatt could definitely also put up good stats in a really good role.

 

[Kwayry]

Winnipeg still has an arbitration case with Bogosian on Friday. He will come in at $3.5M-$4M. Winnipeg will be close to the upper limit after Bogosian. Wheeler had an arbitration case this Monday. The briefs were due this morning. 48 hours. Gagner is the only arbitration case to exchange briefs. Zuccrello briefs are due on Monday morning. The Rangers and Zuccarello have 48 hours to settle without briefs being exchanged. Wednesday at nine is the hearing. I read yesterday 3 cases out 66 in the last 3 years went to the arbitrator. Dubinsky was settled right before the hearing. Both sides asked for more time to get a deal. Callahan was done the day before the hearing. If Gorton can get Zuccarello at $1.25M-$1.4M,the Rangers trade Boyle or Pyatt. They can give Stepan 5 years at around $3.85M. Stepan's agency did the contracts for Oshie and Simmonds. Those involve multiple group 3 years. Oshie is at $4.175M. Simmonds at under $4M. Its their 3rd contract. A 5 year deal for Stepan includes one year at group 3. McD has a cap hit of $4.7M includes 3 years of group 3.

Let's recap:
Zuke at 1.25 - 1.4m, make sense, right about where it's expected to be. maybe 1.5 at the max.
Stepan: 5 years at 3.85
That's a steal. i think anything below 4M (for 5+ years) for Stepan is a great deal.
6 years at 4.25m makes more sense.
Stepan said he wants to be a ranger, this his chance for a long term deal.
For the Rangers, as soon as the cap goes up and Stepan confirms last season's breakout, that'd be a great deal.

 

[BroadwayHustle]

So MDZ is working with Barb Underhill, this is great considering we have all talked about how he needs to work on his skating. Maybe it will be the difference of him being able to actually skate the puck out of the zone

 

[Emptyvoid]

So MDZ is working with Barb Underhill, this is great considering we have all talked about how he needs to work on his skating. Maybe it will be the difference of him being able to actually skate the puck out of the zone

I don't think this is the first off season he's doing this, or is it? I know he's worked with...Gary something (Roberts) during the off seasons.

 

[The Gloaming]

I don't think this is the first off season he's doing this, or is it? I know he's worked with...Gary something (Roberts) during the off seasons.

Yes but Gary Roberts is endurance, strength, diet, all that stuff. Not skating.

 

[Emptyvoid]

Yes but Gary Roberts is endurance, strength, diet, all that stuff. Not skating.

I understand that, I just thought he's also worked with Underhill in the past. Must've confused him with Boyle.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Giving Stepan a bridge contract allows the Rangers to save money now and buy more UFA years once the bridge contract is up. A 4-5 year deal would be bad, it buys 0 or only one group 3 years.

 

[Boruto]

watching Brassard's goals, I think he might be the best bet that we have for 1 timers and slap shots. The 1-0 goal against Washington from the line, he scores one against DET on 3/10/13, the goal he scored against us to tie the game 1-1 from the line, just a hard slap shot, 2/18/12 against CHI, 2/03/12 OTG, 01/08/12 against ANA, 04/08/11, 0401/11 against LAK, 03/09/10 against ANA etc. etc.

His wrist shot is the best we have on this team too. Imperfect angle, Seminesque top shelf snipe. His slap shot and overall shot developed pretty consistently. He's pretty damn nimble around the net when he's looking for rebounds etc. as opposed to most of our guys who are basically looking at their feet and swatting away. He's quick to shoot as well.

Significantly better than Step's offensive skill set. Having Brassard on the PP adds a hell a lot of options with someone who can set up plays, go to the net and finish as well as anyone on our team. I think his problem was consistency in CBJ and boy, if that's no longer an issue in NY, Step's presumed 1C status can be gone by the half way point of the season.

 

[Kris Chreider]

He can sometimes be indecisive though. There's a moment that I remember for some reason, great pass from the right corner to Brassard in the high left slot, he waits a second or two too long and his shot gets blocked. There's others, too. Maybe it's because Torts had everyone on their on-hand side on the PP.

There was a thread in NHL talk, one of the more well known Jackets fans (Viqsi maybe?) told me that Brassard's shot isn't that great. Maybe it's just his consistency.

 

[GAGLine]

Giving Stepan a bridge contract allows the Rangers to save money now and buy more UFA years once the bridge contract is up. A 4-5 year deal would be bad, it buys 0 or only one group 3 years.

There no chance he will get a 4 year deal. If we give him 2 years for cheap, his next contract will be more expensive. It's a case of spend more now and save later, or save now and spend more later. Either way he's getting paid.

 

[I Eat Crow]

There no chance he will get a 4 year deal. If we give him 2 years for cheap, his next contract will be more expensive. It's a case of spend more now and save later, or save now and spend more later. Either way he's getting paid.

I'm perfectly ok with a bridge contract given the number of free agents we have next summer. Stepan will get his pay day in 2015 or 2016. It'll be wise to see how he develops. If he maintains his pace from this past season he'll get his long term extension buying UFA years. If he takes a step back, act accordingly. A lot can happen in 2 or 3 years.

Re: Brassard, he has excellent skill, but his hockey IQ isn't in the same stratosphere as Stepan's. As mentioned, his problem has been consistency. If he can get over that hump, I can't see why he can't become a consistent top 6 center.

 

[RangerBoy]

Derek Stepan. $2.75M in the first year which is the non-arbitration year. $3M,$4M and $4.5M in the 3 arbitration years. $5M in the fifth year which is a group III year. $19.25M. $3.85M AAV.

A 2 bridge contract between non-arbitration and the first arbitration year is much less. Not eligible for salary arbitration. It will cost $2.5M-$2.6M on the high side. Then it will cost the Rangers $4M-$5M plus.

McDonagh got 6 years and $28.2M. $4.7M. He didn't get $5M-$6M in a long term deal that many people thought he would get for 6 years. 3 years of group III.

 

[RangerBoy]

Giving Stepan a bridge contract allows the Rangers to save money now and buy more UFA years once the bridge contract is up. A 4-5 year deal would be bad, it buys 0 or only one group 3 years.

The Rangers gave Staal a 5 year deal coming out entry level which covered 1 group III year,that was a bad deal?