Offseason GDT III

[Trolfoli]

Brown earned that contract and lead the team to two Cups. It sucks his game has fallen off so bad, but it is what it is. Lucic hasn't done jack squat.

Um???

Brown earned the contract then immediately stopped earning it. He stopped earning that contract so bad, Lombardi traded assets to bring in a 1st/2nd line wing. Then last year Lucic blew Brown out of the water. Lucic has competed for a top 2 LW on this team and has won that position at this point. Brown has no one but himself to blame. Hell Brown's been so bad the Kings would have to give up assets and or retain 50% to move him at this point.

Brown earned it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Um???

Brown earned the contract then immediately stopped earning it. He stopped earning that contract so bad, Lombardi traded assets to bring in a 1st/2nd line wing. Then last year Lucic blew Brown out of the water. Lucic has competed for a top 2 LW on this team and has won that position at this point. Brown has no one but himself to blame. Hell Brown's been so bad the Kings would have to give up assets and or retain 50% to move him at this point.

Brown earned it.

One of the reasons Gaborik was needed was because Brown forgot how to score. Then Gaborik had to be kept on top of that, which is an extra almost $5m that could go somewhere else, but Brown can't live up to his cap hit.

Brown, Richards, and Voynov, for their own particular reasons, will go down as the main stumbling blocks. If Richards doesn't lose it, Carter can be a RW, or at the very least, the Kings are deeper at C. The Brown/Gaborik thing. Voynov, young, good contract, top 4 D, right handed, lost for nothing.

Can't take away what they did as a team, but what could've been if things hadn't gone the way they did.

 

[Omni Owl]

There's no chance in hell Brown's contract is moved, none. Not the way the salary cap is now. Spend that money on a defenseman and re-signing Toffoli in the future. Lucic is going to turn into another albatross contract. Hardly any power forward types are in their prime for long, after that their games take a nosedive. Jagr and Doan seem to be exceptions to this, even Iginla's game has fallen off. That style of play can ruin a player's body quick, unless they're built for it.

 

[YP44]

Kings basically would have to let Lucic and Lewis walk but they can afford Bickell at $4 million. The team would suck but I don't think they're cup contenders anyways unless they can move Brown.

The team is likely letting those two walk anyway

 

[YP44]

It's actually $200K, $925K is what you gain for stashing a player in the minors.

yup scuds is a $200K insurance policy IMO

 

[no name]

To say Lucic has done "Jack squat" is silly. He's just as accomplished as Brown except Lucic is still producing.

 

[YP44]

To say Lucic has done "Jack squat" is silly. He's just as accomplished as Brown except Lucic is still producing.

Brown 2 cups
Lucic 1 Cup

He is not "just as accomplished", the rest I agree with

 

[KingsFan7824]

To say Lucic has done "Jack squat" is silly. He's just as accomplished as Brown except Lucic is still producing.

I read it as hasn't done too much with the Kings, which is sort of true, but not completely. It was one thing to give Brown a big contract in the summer of 2013, and another to give Lucic a big contract in the summer of 2016. Look how much is different with the Kings from then and now. Coming off back to back years of getting to at least the 3rd round, and Brown could still score in the 2013 regular season. Now, they're coming off back to back disappointing years with 5 playoff games and 1 win. Then Lucic comes up with a goose egg in the playoffs, which matched Brown.

The Kings are in a tough spot. No easy answers.

 

[Fishhead]

Lucic's been in two finals, they just got beat by a really good Blackhawks team. Hard to hold that against him. Two finals in 3 years, just like the Kings.

He puts up more points than Brown, other than that their stats are very similar in the playoffs and regular season. Lucic actually outhits Brown per 60 minutes by a slight margin.

He is absolutely as accomplished as Brown, they are strikingly similar players.

 

[Trolfoli]

I read it as hasn't done too much with the Kings, which is sort of true, but not completely. It was one thing to give Brown a big contract in the summer of 2013, and another to give Lucic a big contract in the summer of 2016. Look how much is different with the Kings from then and now. Coming off back to back years of getting to at least the 3rd round, and Brown could still score in the 2013 regular season. Now, they're coming off back to back disappointing years with 5 playoff games and 1 win. Then Lucic comes up with a goose egg in the playoffs, which matched Brown.

The Kings are in a tough spot. No easy answers.

Except Lucic's 3 assists which was enough to get him tied for 3rd on the team for scoring in those playoffs.
Edit: Team sucked, Lucic was one of the better players out there.

Lucic is bigger then Brown.
Lucic sticks up for teammates and doesn't let guy get in Toffoli's face. Brown does not.
Lucic has a shot that not only occasionally gets on net it can beat an NHL goalie.
Lucic has the ability to make a pass and set up someone like Carter/Kopitar/Toffoli. Brown does not.

Also read a piece the other day saying Lucic was 2nd on the team in even strength goals and second in even strength points last year.

It's easy... the haters are blind to just how much of an impact Lucic has had. Either their still butt hurt of Williams being dumped, because he's no longer a top 6 forward, or Lucic vastly outplaying Brown. Hell King outplayed Brown last year. Almost caught him in points after missing half the season with a broken foot.

If the Kings were able to dump Brown and sign Lucic to a similar contract the team would be better.

Hell if the Kings were able to just dump Brown the team would be better.

 

[YP44]

Lucic's been in two finals, they just got beat by a really good Blackhawks team. Hard to hold that against him. Two finals in 3 years, just like the Kings.

He puts up more points than Brown, other than that their stats are very similar in the playoffs and regular season. Lucic actually outhits Brown per 60 minutes by a slight margin.

He is absolutely as accomplished as Brown, they are strikingly similar players.

so should brown get props for going to the western finals and losing to that same good blackhawks team?

In no way am I saying that Brown is better than Lucic or anything, but saying Lucic has accomplished as much simply is not true. If both were to retired today only one has their name on the cup twice, and that would be the legacy in 10 years.
Plus Brown has won the messier leadership award, and the NHL foundation player award.
Lucic has not won any individual awards in the NHL.

 

[YP44]

Except Lucic's 3 assists which was enough to get him tied for 3rd on the team for scoring in those playoffs.
Edit: Team sucked, Lucic was one of the better players out there.

Lucic is bigger then Brown.
Lucic sticks up for teammates and doesn't let guy get in Toffoli's face. Brown does not.
Lucic has a shot that not only occasionally gets on net it can beat an NHL goalie.
Lucic has the ability to make a pass and set up someone like Carter/Kopitar/Toffoli. Brown does not.

Also read a piece the other day saying Lucic was 2nd on the team in even strength goals and second in even strength points last year.

It's easy... the haters are blind to just how much of an impact Lucic has had. Either their still butt hurt of Williams being dumped, because he's no longer a top 6 forward, or Lucic vastly outplaying Brown. Hell King outplayed Brown last year. Almost caught him in points after missing half the season with a broken foot.

If the Kings were able to dump Brown and sign Lucic to a similar contract the team would be better.

Hell if the Kings were able to just dump Brown the team would be better.

I wish....would love to dump gaborik to keep Lucic too

 

[Steve Zissou]

If Chicago actually offers up Teuvo along with Bickell, would it be such a bad idea for the Kings to take that and give Chicago a 3rd round pick or something? Gets them a prospect with pretty good potential. Bickell's contract expires next summer.

Dear God no.

 

[BigKing]

Except Lucic's 3 assists which was enough to get him tied for 3rd on the team for scoring in those playoffs.
Edit: Team sucked, Lucic was one of the better players out there.

Lucic is bigger then Brown.
Lucic sticks up for teammates and doesn't let guy get in Toffoli's face. Brown does not.
Lucic has a shot that not only occasionally gets on net it can beat an NHL goalie.
Lucic has the ability to make a pass and set up someone like Carter/Kopitar/Toffoli. Brown does not.

Also read a piece the other day saying Lucic was 2nd on the team in even strength goals and second in even strength points last year.

It's easy... the haters are blind to just how much of an impact Lucic has had. Either their still butt hurt of Williams being dumped, because he's no longer a top 6 forward, or Lucic vastly outplaying Brown. Hell King outplayed Brown last year. Almost caught him in points after missing half the season with a broken foot.

If the Kings were able to dump Brown and sign Lucic to a similar contract the team would be better.

Hell if the Kings were able to just dump Brown the team would be better.

You don't have to be "butt hurt" to sit here today and wonder if keeping Williams for two years as opposed to bleeding assets for one year of Lucic would of been a better play.

I think Lucic is a legit Top 6 player and does offer more than Williams at this point. I don't want to be painted with this butt hurt brush though for thinking the team would be better off if they just kept Williams and the assets used for Lucic: especially the first rounder. Hurts even more to know you are letting Williams walk but you can't get anything for him at the deadline since you are "all in" but wind up missing the playoffs anyways.

If Lucic walks, that is a really poor use of assets. Might be a poor use of assets (cap space) to bring him back as well depending on the cap and what he will ultimately agree to.

Agree to disagree that this team would of been pretty equal with Williams instead of Lucic this past season. We can both agree, however, that this team is going to be worse without either of them next season.

Also disagree about Lucic being good in the playoffs. He had three assists but he also was pretty much responsible for at least two goals against--including the GWG in Game 2--and took a selfish penalty deep in the 3rd of a tied game in Game 3. I like the guy, but let's not try to paint his playoff performance as good. Agree he is being raked over the coals by people because they don't have much loyalty to him since he has only been here for a year and they don't see him coming back so the pitchforks are out, but don't over-correct their mistake by trying to say he was good in the playoffs.

 

[YP44]

You don't have to be "butt hurt" to sit here today and wonder if keeping Williams for two years as opposed to bleeding assets for one year of Lucic would of been a better play.

I think Lucic is a legit Top 6 player and does offer more than Williams at this point. I don't want to be painted with this butt hurt brush though for thinking the team would be better off if they just kept Williams and the assets used for Lucic: especially the first rounder. Hurts even more to know you are letting Williams walk but you can't get anything for him at the deadline since you are "all in" but wind up missing the playoffs anyways.

If Lucic walks, that is a really poor use of assets. Might be a poor use of assets (cap space) to bring him back as well depending on the cap and what he will ultimately agree to.

Agree to disagree that this team would of been pretty equal with Williams instead of Lucic this past season. We can both agree, however, that this team is going to be worse without either of them next season.

Also disagree about Lucic being good in the playoffs. He had three assists but he also was pretty much responsible for at least two goals against--including the GWG in Game 2--and took a selfish penalty deep in the 3rd of a tied game in Game 3. I like the guy, but let's not try to paint his playoff performance as good. Agree he is being raked over the coals by people because they don't have much loyalty to him since he has only been here for a year and they don't see him coming back so the pitchforks are out, but don't over-correct their mistake by trying to say he was good in the playoffs.

do we know for sure Williams would have signed the same deal he did with the caps to stay in LA?

Lucic cap hit to the kings was $3.25M this year Williams was the same...I know the player I thought LA had a better chance to win the cup with. I thought Lucic was a huge improvement over Williams. As much as I love Williams he was mostly a 3rd liner in Washington this year.

Obviously things didn't work out, but you can't steal 2nd with your foot on 1st.

 

[tsanuri]

do we know for sure Williams would have signed the same deal he did with the caps to stay in LA?

Lucic cap hit to the kings was $3.25M this year Williams was the same...I know the player I thought LA had a better chance to win the cup with. I thought Lucic was a huge improvement over Williams. As much as I love Williams he was mostly a 3rd liner in Washington this year.

Obviously things didn't work out, but you can't steal 2nd with your foot on 1st.

Even if he would have we are talking about a RW Williams vs a LW Lucic.
He was getting closer to second line minutes. I know that was partly due to PP time on the second unit. But he was still 5th in TOI for forwards on the team.

 

[deeshamrock]

do we know for sure Williams would have signed the same deal he did with the caps to stay in LA?

Lucic cap hit to the kings was $3.25M this year Williams was the same...I know the player I thought LA had a better chance to win the cup with. I thought Lucic was a huge improvement over Williams. As much as I love Williams he was mostly a 3rd liner in Washington this year.

Obviously things didn't work out, but you can't steal 2nd with your foot on 1st.

Williams decision was mostly based on his wife's desire to move back East , closer to her family in South Jersey.
Williams played mostly on the 2nd line and some games on the 1st line picking up 22 g's and 52 points. He was not on the 3rd line which was Beagle, Wilson and Chimera until Beagle got hurt and Marcus Johanson replaced him and stayed there at center and thrived. It will be interesting to see if they keep him there, his contact at 3.75 expires this year.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Except Lucic's 3 assists which was enough to get him tied for 3rd on the team for scoring in those playoffs.
Edit: Team sucked, Lucic was one of the better players out there.

Lucic is bigger then Brown.
Lucic sticks up for teammates and doesn't let guy get in Toffoli's face. Brown does not.
Lucic has a shot that not only occasionally gets on net it can beat an NHL goalie.
Lucic has the ability to make a pass and set up someone like Carter/Kopitar/Toffoli. Brown does not.

Also read a piece the other day saying Lucic was 2nd on the team in even strength goals and second in even strength points last year.

It's easy... the haters are blind to just how much of an impact Lucic has had. Either their still butt hurt of Williams being dumped, because he's no longer a top 6 forward, or Lucic vastly outplaying Brown. Hell King outplayed Brown last year. Almost caught him in points after missing half the season with a broken foot.

If the Kings were able to dump Brown and sign Lucic to a similar contract the team would be better.

Hell if the Kings were able to just dump Brown the team would be better.

I'm not arguing Brown is better than Lucic. I just don't think "jack squat" meant "has never done anything in his career", but I didn't write jack squat, so I don't know for sure. I'm guessing it meant Lucic didn't really do anything to put a lesser Kings team over the top this year, so it can be tougher to justify going to extra mile to keep him. Especially when the context of the franchise is different from the summer of 2013, to the summer of 2016.

 

[deeshamrock]

Lucic's main focus remains the same as last summer in Boston, the team that drafted him and the city and fans he loved, wouldn't take anything less than a LTC, which Boston wasn't offering , they wanted 3-4 yrs in the 5.2 range. He never budged. DL knew that risk when he traded for him, it was more for a Cup run in 2016. He wasn't going to sign before July 1, because he wants an LTC and DL isn't offering that

Lucic quote from an interview

NEWS 1130 Sports ‏@NEWS1130Sports · 2h2 hours ago

Lucic : "Not much talk with the Kings the last 2 months, I would love to remain a King but I also have to get ready for July 1st." #Canucks

He said he loves winning and wants (like most players) another cup.
NEWS 1130 Sports ‏@NEWS1130Sports · 2h2 hours ago

Lucic on Vancouver : "It would be great, if the #Canucks are interested, I would have a sit down and hear what they had to say."

HIs agent said he expects a lot of teams to be interested come July 1.

 

[tsanuri]

Lucic's main focus remains the same as last summer in Boston, the team that drafted him and the city and fans he loved, wouldn't take anything less than a LTC, which Boston wasn't offering , they wanted 3-4 yrs in the 5.2 range. He never budged. He wasn't going to sign before July 1, because he wants an LTC and DL isn't offering that

Lucic quote from an interview

NEWS 1130 Sports ‏@NEWS1130Sports · 2h2 hours ago

Lucic : "Not much talk with the Kings the last 2 months, I would love to remain a King but I also have to get ready for July 1st." #Canucks

He said he loves winning and wants (like most players) another cup.
NEWS 1130 Sports ‏@NEWS1130Sports · 2h2 hours ago

Lucic on Vancouver : "It would be great, if the #Canucks are interested, I would have a sit down and hear what they had to say."

HIs agent said he expects a lot of teams to be interested come July 1.

And that is where the business side comes in on both sides.
He can very well want to stay.
But is it in his best interest to stay at even the same money and less term?
And I think DL is trying to do what is best for the team in limiting his term to 4 years.
This is likely his last big contract and it makes sense for him to want it to get him to 35.

 

[deeshamrock]

And that is where the business side comes in on both sides.
He can very well want to stay.
But is it in his best interest to stay at even the same money and less term?
And I think DL is trying to do what is best for the team in limiting his term to 4 years.
This is likely his last big contract and it makes sense for him to want it to get him to 35.

absolutely. It's a business and the players are commodities. DL like the Boston GM is looking out for what is best for the team and giving a career aver 17 goal scorer a LTC for 6 M or more doesn't make sense. Esp with Toffoli' and Pearson, among others, who will need contracts next summer. If Toffoli continues to bloom, he'll be in the market for the 6.5 to 7 M that players of his caliber get. He's far more important to the Kings future.
To Lucic, it's the thing that makes the most sense, as it's his home run contract, and that LTC has been his first priority since the 2014/15 season started and the Bruins began talking to his agent.
But if the rumors that the CAP will remain in the 71-72 M range, he might find a shorter list to pick from.

 

[kingpest19]

Except Lucic's 3 assists which was enough to get him tied for 3rd on the team for scoring in those playoffs.
Edit: Team sucked, Lucic was one of the better players out there.

Lucic is bigger then Brown.
Lucic sticks up for teammates and doesn't let guy get in Toffoli's face. Brown does not.
Lucic has a shot that not only occasionally gets on net it can beat an NHL goalie.
Lucic has the ability to make a pass and set up someone like Carter/Kopitar/Toffoli. Brown does not.

Also read a piece the other day saying Lucic was 2nd on the team in even strength goals and second in even strength points last year.

It's easy... the haters are blind to just how much of an impact Lucic has had. Either their still butt hurt of Williams being dumped, because he's no longer a top 6 forward, or Lucic vastly outplaying Brown. Hell King outplayed Brown last year. Almost caught him in points after missing half the season with a broken foot.

If the Kings were able to dump Brown and sign Lucic to a similar contract the team would be better.

Hell if the Kings were able to just dump Brown the team would be better.

And in 2-3 years when said contract for Lucic is an anchor then what?

 

[YP44]

And in 2-3 years when said contract for Lucic is an anchor then what?

if there was another championship in that time frame than we sit back and gloat

 

[kings11]

absolutely. It's a business and the players are commodities. DL like the Boston GM is looking out for what is best for the team and giving a career aver 17 goal scorer a LTC for 6 M or more doesn't make sense. Esp with Toffoli' and Pearson, among others, who will need contracts next summer. If Toffoli continues to bloom, he'll be in the market for the 6.5 to 7 M that players of his caliber get. He's far more important to the Kings future.
To Lucic, it's the thing that makes the most sense, as it's his home run contract, and that LTC has been his first priority since the 2014/15 season started and the Bruins began talking to his agent.
But if the rumors that the CAP will remain in the 71-72 M range, he might find a shorter list to pick from.

To me, at least from what I've seen the past few seasons is that DB has tried to evolve his game into more of an offensive threat. This IMHO has gone hand in hand with his offensive decline and the overall play of the team..
For example, during our 2 cup runs DB wasn't a skilled offensive player but rather that physical force that made us tough to play against. He set the tempo of the game and was so physical and unrelenting that we literally beat opponents into submission. As he moved away from that style play for whatever reason, we as a team seemed to have lost our identity which culminated in our ***** being kicked by SJ. When looking at the lone game we won it was DB who picked up his physical play and caused the TO that led to our only win.....
I guess what im trying to say is that if we are to regain our championship form, it will start with Brownie regaining his physical edge and not trying to be a cute goal scorer while of course addressing our defensive shortcoming that have led to the direct overuse of Doughty. This is what "I" feel would be much more important than resigning Milan Lucic.....On a side note any chance Vinny is convinced to come back ???

 

[Pandaman11]

Lucic will sign in Edmonton.